Low end DELL IPS vs high end TN LCD? Gaming monitor, cant decide!!

[bigriggg]

Ok, so i was looking at the dell 24" IPS LCD and wanted to know if its really worth the money for gaming if thats all im gonna be doing. Since it will be in my room, I might watch some DvD's before going to med, or maybe a little streaming video, but thats about it. Im getting an iMAC strictly for photo editing and business and it has IPS monitor. I definately want 24" 1920x1200. anybody have any other suggestions for a TN LCD? The best LPS monitor I could afford is about 500-600, which is why I would get the dell. Maybe if I could get a nice TN LCD that looks really good for a little less it might be worth it. But i want that image quality!! Thats the main investment, as Im playing fast and pretty looking FPS games. Advice would be nice and maybe some specfic model suggestions? Thanks

 

[Puffnstuff]

What dell are you looking at? I just picked up a dell 2709w for $699 + tax and its s-pva. Tn sucks and thats the bottom line. If you put an ips and tn side by side you'd see the difference right away. I looked at monitors locally recently and they were all tn and they sucked. I will never buy a tn monitor when I can get a va or ips panel instead.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Check out the Dell 2209WA, I have two of them, great IPS panels....I too will never go back to TN!

 

[bigriggg]

What dell are you looking at? I just picked up a dell 2709w for $699 + tax and its s-pva. Tn sucks and thats the bottom line. If you put an ips and tn side by side you'd see the difference right away. I looked at monitors locally recently and they were all tn and they sucked. I will never buy a tn monitor when I can get a va or ips panel instead.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=320-8277

i thought about going to a local store, but fear that all i will also see is TN only... as for gaming, did you notice a difference in quality? i know there are 1.02 billion colors in a IPS, compared to 16.7 million in a TN monitor...

 

[bigriggg]

I'm looking at the U2410, its 1920 x1200, and ViviTheMage, i wanna go at least 1080, although i see a huge price difference. i want to see someone gaming on it before i buy it, but that doesnt really work when you watch youtube videos... Im also scared of once I got IPS, ill never go back

 

[blanketyblank]

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=320-8277

i thought about going to a local store, but fear that all i will also see is TN only... as for gaming, did you notice a difference in quality? i know there are 1.02 billion colors in a IPS, compared to 16.7 million in a TN monitor...

If you're talking about super wide gamut that's not necessarily a function of the panel. I think there are actually IPS and VA panels in the past that had less than 16.7 million colors because the circuitry didn't enable them. I'm also pretty sure a lot of IPS screens only support 16.7 million and Dell had to do some tweaking to provide a wider gamut in order to provide more colors without using LEDs.
TN's have the same image quality as the other panel types, but they suffer in color accuracy and contrast. A good TN can make up for contrast a lot if you don't mind a glossy panel, but if you want matte they are still pretty bad from what I've seen. Personally I'd go for the non TN panel since current TNs still aren't as good, and it will be more difficult to find a 24" non TN panel in the future. About 3 years ago anything above 20" was a VA or IPS, but now I'm not even sure about 30" monitors.

 

[bigriggg]

If you're talking about super wide gamut that's not necessarily a function of the panel. I think there are actually IPS and VA panels in the past that had less than 16.7 million colors because the circuitry didn't enable them. I'm also pretty sure a lot of IPS screens only support 16.7 million and Dell had to do some tweaking to provide a wider gamut in order to provide more colors without using LEDs.
TN's have the same image quality as the other panel types, but they suffer in color accuracy and contrast. A good TN can make up for contrast a lot if you don't mind a glossy panel, but if you want matte they are still pretty bad from what I've seen. Personally I'd go for the non TN panel since current TNs still aren't as good, and it will be more difficult to find a 24" non TN panel in the future. About 3 years ago anything above 20" was a VA or IPS, but now I'm not even sure about 30" monitors.

ok, well yes i was talking about super wide gamut, and the specific dell i was talking about is 1.06 billion colors BUT will i notice a difference in gaming? i know the response time isnt a problem (6ms), and will it hold its value longer, if i decided to get a new monitor in 2-3 years? anyways i think you have some good suggestions about not getting a TN, so you think it would be worth it down the road to spend double on a IPS panel? I like apples displays....but I dont game on them, so I dont know how that part would benefit...

 

[blanketyblank]

ok, well yes i was talking about super wide gamut, and the specific dell i was talking about is 1.06 billion colors BUT will i notice a difference in gaming? i know the response time isnt a problem (6ms), and will it hold its value longer, if i decided to get a new monitor in 2-3 years? anyways i think you have some good suggestions about not getting a TN, so you think it would be worth it down the road to spend double on a IPS panel? I like apples displays....but I dont game on them, so I dont know how that part would benefit...

For gaming it's hard to say. I've found it does make a difference at least when playing games like poppit or puzzle quest where colors matter (greens and yellows looked the same on this particular TN not sure if that's different now). 1.06 billion colors however should not make a difference in terms of gaming any time soon since games are designed for users with standard monitors and HDTVs.

If it were me I'd either go with the nice display now or a CHEAP TN. 3 years ago if you had gotten a nice display it would still be better than the TN panels they have now. I believe that trend will continue with the only difference being TN panels 2-3 years from now will support 120 Hz (3d ready) and have LED backlighting. They'd still be inferior in color accuracy so I'd feel content to keep my panel for another 3 years (actually just repaired my 20" MVA). In terms of resale though it'd be difficult to sell since quality panels are a niche now so most consumers just care about size, brand, and price.

I wouldn't mind paying like $100-160 for a TN panel now for gaming since in 3 years I could just dump it and not feel bad. I personally don't think any of the features that distinguish a "nice" TN from a cheap TN are worth it since these features (120Hz, LED backlighting, glossy screen) don't really add much now, will become cheaper once they become standard, and almost double the cost.

 

[CurseTheSky]

The NEC EA231WMi is worth a look. 23", E-IPS, 1920x1080, and the street price is only $300-350ish shipped.

I'm using one right now and I highly recommend it. In fact, I'd trade the 2408WFP sitting next to it for a second one in a heartbeat.

 

[Bacstar]

There's a new HP ZR24w - 24" IPS panel for $425.00 dollars til the end of the month on the HP website. You'll have to go to the Small/Medium Business Store on the HP website to find it though. If you call to order it, you will qualify for free shipping. There's also a 22" version as well.

HardOCP has a pretty lengthy thread on it because there are no reviews out on the monitor yet, and as far as I can tell from people who bought it, it's getting high praise.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1491561

 

[JRW]

I just bought a 23" (16:9 / 1080p) Samsung PX2370 LED monitor for $309 at best buy, Im way sensitive to ghosting & motion blur (coming from a CRT) which is why I was looking at TN panels, but even tho this is a TN it actually still looks great and of course is awesome for gaming. tested @ 3ms average input lag on digitalversus: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=721&p1=8191&ma2=88&mo2=570&p2=6292&ph=12

 

[bigriggg]

hmmm....thanks for the monitor suggestions everyone.... i will keep looking and decide next month. i think what it comes down to is that im going to have to go to the computer stores around here and see them first. if the IPS monitors have significant lag, then im not interested, i do find the HP ZR24w very appealing Bacstar. I think I'm leaning towards this, but would like to see a formal review also.

 

[bigriggg]

I just bought a 23" (16:9 / 1080p) Samsung PX2370 LED monitor for $309 at best buy, Im way sensitive to ghosting & motion blur (coming from a CRT) which is why I was looking at TN panels, but even tho this is a TN it actually still looks great and of course is awesome for gaming. tested @ 3ms average input lag on digitalversus: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=721&p1=8191&ma2=88&mo2=570&p2=6292&ph=12

thank you for that input, i might have to go look into the LED also.

 

[bigriggg]

I wouldn't mind paying like $100-160 for a TN panel now for gaming since in 3 years I could just dump it and not feel bad. I personally don't think any of the features that distinguish a "nice" TN from a cheap TN are worth it since these features (120Hz, LED backlighting, glossy screen) don't really add much now, will become cheaper once they become standard, and almost double the cost.

yes, i think this is what it comes down too. im upgrading from an Envision 1440x900 19" lcd and its about 3 years old. so anything thats 23-24 inch, i should be happy with and if it is IPS, i will probably love it.

 

[blanketyblank]

thank you for that input, i might have to go look into the LED also.

Most LEDs in consumer level monitors are white LEDs and don't really affect the picture quality though they may consume less power and have a longer life than CCFLs. I find the longer life to be a negligible benefit since CCFL monitors already last a very long time. I have a SGI 1600sw that still works well, and I think I've had it for around 10 years already (color is changing, but I don't use it for graphics anymore anyways).

The RGB LEDs that do affect the color really only appear in professional monitors which cost a lot. Last I checked 2000+. Also there appears to be no energy savings with this technology.

 

[JRW]

Most LEDs in consumer level monitors are white LEDs and don't really affect the picture quality though they may consume less power and have a longer life than CCFLs. I find the longer life to be a negligible benefit since CCFL monitors already last a very long time. I have a SGI 1600sw that still works well, and I think I've had it for around 10 years already (color is changing, but I don't use it for graphics anymore anyways).

The RGB LEDs that do affect the color really only appear in professional monitors which cost a lot. Last I checked 2000+. Also there appears to be no energy savings with this technology.

People seem to think LED reduces eye strain as well but don't quote me on it (I haven't noticed any eye strain issues myself).

I do like the fact this monitor only uses 23W of power and runs extremely cool, even after being on all day anywhere you touch the monitor is cold (including the screen). Seems like it should last a long time with these attributes.

It also claims to have 100% sRGB color reproduction but not sure if thats a typical TN panel claim or not, here's the product page: http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/o...ail&returnurl=

 

[bigriggg]

also whats everyones input on 1920x1080 vs 1200? i mean it seems so much more expensive for an xtra 1,200 extra vertical pixel lines, but im sure it would be more future proof, although 1080 seems to be the standard and im guessing a lot of games, especially coming out now and in the next few years will base things around 1080.and then you get into how compact the pixels are at 1080. i have a 1080 42" tv, i dont see myself upgrading that anytime soon.

 

[Ika]

also whats everyones input on 1920x1080 vs 1200? i mean it seems so much more expensive for an xtra 1,200 extra vertical pixel lines, but im sure it would be more future proof, although 1080 seems to be the standard and im guessing a lot of games, especially coming out now and in the next few years will base things around 1080.and then you get into how compact the pixels are at 1080. i have a 1080 42" tv, i dont see myself upgrading that anytime soon.

The 1920x1xxx resolution has moved from the 1920x1200 standard to the 1920x1080 (1080p) standard. That should tell you where the future's going, so buying a 1920x1200 screen wouldn't be "future-proof". The difference lies in usability and user preference.

 

[blanketyblank]

also whats everyones input on 1920x1080 vs 1200? i mean it seems so much more expensive for an xtra 1,200 extra vertical pixel lines, but im sure it would be more future proof, although 1080 seems to be the standard and im guessing a lot of games, especially coming out now and in the next few years will base things around 1080.and then you get into how compact the pixels are at 1080. i have a 1080 42" tv, i dont see myself upgrading that anytime soon.

Extra pixels aren't a big deal at all. I think any game that can run at 16:10 will run just fine on a 16:9 screen. However the price difference might be because of something else besides the resolution. In particular with Dells 1920 x 1080 24" monitors have been TN panels while the 1920 x 1200 were S-PVA. It's a bit more confusing now since they started introducing E-IPS panels at 1920 x 1080, but you should make sure you're comparing monitors with the same panels and features.

btw when watching 1080p movies on a 24" 1920 x 1200 the movie is either stretched or there will be black bars so the actual size is a little smaller than on a 1080p monitor. Same resolution just physically smaller.

 

[Bacstar]

I just bought a 23" (16:9 / 1080p) Samsung PX2370 LED monitor for $309 at best buy, Im way sensitive to ghosting & motion blur (coming from a CRT) which is why I was looking at TN panels, but even tho this is a TN it actually still looks great and of course is awesome for gaming. tested @ 3ms average input lag on digitalversus: http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=721&p1=8191&ma2=88&mo2=570&p2=6292&ph=12

I bought this monitor as well to be my secondary. The touch sensitive buttons on the front panel are kind of a pain. I'm always tapping it to turn it off or on. When my computer goes to sleep or stand-by, the monitor for some reason, cycles through the different inputs, so i just power it off. You can definitely tell the difference with the LED backlighting though.

I did purchase the HP ZR24 and hopefully I'll receive it this Friday. It's my first IPS panel, so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm taking my photography hobby a little more seriously, and I heard IPS's are the way to go. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[darXoul]

No more TN panels for me. Even if my current IPS LCD on paper has higher pixel response time and input lag, plus blacks are not really stellar, especially compared to my S-PVA HDTV, I'd never go back to a TN monitor, LED-backlit or not.

A perfect LCD would be a 1920*1200 or 2560*1600 IPS/S-PVA monitor with no more than 2 frames of input lag, true 120 Hz technology and LED backlight, preferably RGB with local dimming. We can always dream

 

[bigriggg]

I did purchase the HP ZR24 and hopefully I'll receive it this Friday. It's my first IPS panel, so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm taking my photography hobby a little more seriously, and I heard IPS's are the way to go. I'll let you know how it goes.

Let me know how you like it. I would be very interested to know, since there are no formal reviews on this monitor yet.

 

[JRW]

I bought this monitor as well to be my secondary. The touch sensitive buttons on the front panel are kind of a pain. I'm always tapping it to turn it off or on. When my computer goes to sleep or stand-by, the monitor for some reason, cycles through the different inputs, so i just power it off. You can definitely tell the difference with the LED backlighting though.

I did purchase the HP ZR24 and hopefully I'll receive it this Friday. It's my first IPS panel, so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm taking my photography hobby a little more seriously, and I heard IPS's are the way to go. I'll let you know how it goes.

Hm I haven't noticed any issues with it cycling through inputs, when my PC goes to sleep the monitors power light flashes to indicate standby mode. I kinda like the PS3 style touch sensitive power button, my only gripe is how they put the monitor's menu buttons on the back of the monitor, pretty weird design choice but Im starting to get used to.

Let me know how you like the HP ZR24, The last LCD I had was IPS (NEC 20WMGX2) and I just couldn't get used to the motion blur / ghosting associated with IPS and my main priority is gaming. But this was awhile ago perhaps they've improved since then. I almost bought the Dell U2410 (IPS) but the digitalversus review complains of input lag and worse than average contrast ratio / black levels.

 

[Bacstar]

I'm far from picky when it comes to monitors, but I'll give you my impressions. I've only owned TN panels so this monitor may just blow me away.

In a previous response I linked the forum where they have a thread that's over 75+ pages long on just this monitor. They have guys running lag tests, tint tents, stuck/dead pixel photos and a bunch of user comments. Pretty informative and influenced my decision to just go ahead and buy the thing.

Interesting... my menu "buttons" are right next to the Power "button". hehehe not sure if they even qualify as buttons though. It would have been quite helpful if they at least put indents to mark the spots on the bezel.

 

[QueBert]

Have a 24" IPS, but I'm about to trade it for a 24" Sony widescreen CRT. That's the ultimate monitor IMHO. TN is bottom of the barrel, but CRT -> IPS is a bigger negative than IPS -> CRT if you ask me. Just buy what you want and be happy with it.