Louisiana atheist vilified for objecting to prayer in public school

[FerrelGeek]

Pretty much how is should be and how it has been for quite some time. No one is forcing you to pray or even believe in any kind of religion if you don't want so why do annoying atheists try to FORCE the overwhelming majority of people to do things their way. I am not religious at all and many very religious people get on my nerves but it seems that the vocal atheists are the most annoying of all.

This. They have the nerve to rail on the intolerance of religion. Hypocrites. Practice a little tolerance yourselves and learn to respect other people's beliefs. If it's just a fairytale, what's the harm? If it empowers some people to be decent and caring, what's the harm? If it empowers some people to get out of the moral pit they dug for themselves, what's the harm? Like someone said early yon in the thread, these prayers are telling the kids to go out and 'martyr' themselves or anything like that, so what's the harm? Get over it.

 

[Atreus21]

I'm not sure if you got that i was jesting and followed up on that or if you are heckling me because you thought i was being serious...

I wasn't serious but... there are people like that out there...

That is fucked up.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Hey look, the village idiot is back! Missed your oh so insightful posts.

Yeah, been on hard routine for quite a while, but hey, i have to amuse the utter retarded religious trolls once in a while...

I don't know who you are though? Just one in a great number of trolls who likes to talk and talk and talk and talk and that is all you ever do.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I was being sarcastic.

You should meet my original parents...

They would have loved an arsehole like you for a son.

 

[soulcougher73]

That's fine, as long as I could then also opt out of having to pay for the lousy public education system. There are a LOT of people who'd love to take their kids out of public school and into a private school, but it's very expensive to do that when you're paying huge property taxes to support the bloated public school system.

I am fine with that as well. I dont have kids so i dont think i should have to pay taxes for schooling either.

 

[Atreus21]

You should meet my original parents...

They would have loved an arsehole like you for a son.

Why? Because I happen not to instinctively rebel against everything they stand for?

 

[soulcougher73]

This. They have the nerve to rail on the intolerance of religion. Hypocrites. Practice a little tolerance yourselves and learn to respect other people's beliefs. If it's just a fairytale, what's the harm? If it empowers some people to be decent and caring, what's the harm? If it empowers some people to get out of the moral pit they dug for themselves, what's the harm? Like someone said early yon in the thread, these prayers are telling the kids to go out and 'martyr' themselves or anything like that, so what's the harm? Get over it.

You did read the part where these empowered decent and caring people harrass him, beat him up, kick him out of his home, disown him etc right? Such loving people, i can see why youd want more indoctrinated.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Why? Because I happen not to instinctively rebel against everything they stand for?

No, because they would have valued your will to please and stay loyal beyond any reasonable thought.

You have given up your own mind to be a slave to religion, i'd pity you if you were worth it, a forced slave would be worth it, you're not.

You are no better than the Taliban, just less violent.

 

[werepossum]

Are you fucking daft?

How can you not get that arguing for the rights of the majority is the same in EVERY example no matter what the example is?

In Egypt they want Christians to pray to Allah, i suppose you are in full support of that too?

Or probably not, you are only for majority rule as long as it achieves what YOU want it to achieve... That is why freedom of religion is in your constitution, because people like you would rule with tyranny of the majority if it wasn't. Just as the Muslims do in Egypt.

There is a huge difference between forcing the minority Christians to pray to Allay and forcing the majority Muslims to NOT pray to Allah because the minority Christians don't want to see it.

 

[Atreus21]

No, because they would have valued your will to please and stay loyal beyond any reasonable thought.

Ironically, in stereotyping me as reaching my lifestyle without reasonable thought, and also assuming that only reasonable thought would lead me to atheism, you have indicated not only that you are critically unable to reasonably think, but are just as dogmatic in your beliefs against God as you purport theists to be in favor.

You have given up your own mind to be a slave to religion, i'd pity you if you were worth it, a forced slave would be worth it, you're not.

Quite the contrary. It is my mind, and humility, that led me to or rather kept me in religion. Unlike you, I do not dismiss the beliefs of my parents and the vast majority of the world out of a juvenile and arrogant desire to feel different and special.

You are no better than the Taliban, just less violent.

And you, being just as dogmatic as any theist, aren't either.

 

[soulcougher73]

There is a huge difference between forcing the minority Christians to pray to Allay and forcing the majority Muslims to NOT pray to Allah because the minority Christians don't want to see it.

Not when the constitution of the land and SCOTUS rule that you cannot do that either way. Keep religion where it was meant to be. It is not something to be brought up in public events sponsered by state funding such as this school and graduation.

 

[soulcougher73]

Quite the contrary. It is my mind, and humility, that led me to or rather kept me in religion. Unlike you, I do not dismiss the beliefs of my parents and the vast majority of the world out of a juvenile and arrogant desire to feel different and special.

Peer pressure and a need to belong and fit in are a bitch.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Ironically, in stereotyping me as reaching my lifestyle without reasonable thought, and also assuming that only reasonable thought would lead me to atheism, you have indicated not only that you are critically unable to reasonably think, but are just as dogmatic in your beliefs against God as you purport theists to be in favor.



Quite the contrary. It is my mind, and humility, that led me to or rather kept me in religion. Unlike you, I do not dismiss the beliefs of my parents and the vast majority of the world out of a juvenile and arrogant desire to feel different and special.



And you, being just as dogmatic as any theist, aren't either.

No it's not your mind, it's your indoctrination.

Are you perchance mildly retarded, you have given in to a belief which requires that you give up looking for other answers and you think that is the same as an open mind?

Dogma? I have no dogma, there is nothing to believe or disbelieve, figure it out for yourself as best you can, be free tho think and don't assume that one teaching has all the answers.

If that is dogma then any thought is per your definition dogma, so every thought is an dogmatic thought...

But of course, you are trying to defend something you wouldn't need to defend if you were not questioning it, welcome to the club i was in a good 30 years ago.

 

[werepossum]

Not when the constitution of the land and SCOTUS rule that you cannot do that either way. Keep religion where it was meant to be. It is not something to be brought up in public events sponsered by state funding such as this school and graduation.

Interesting how for two hundred years we had no idea that the Constitution said that, huh? Interesting too how SCOTUS is perfectly fine with prayer at THEIR events, it's only other government events where there's a problem.

If we cannot honor one part of the First Amendment without violating another part, perhaps the answer is for the federal government to get out of education.

 

[thraashman]

Failure is what you opted for when you posted this tripe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Independent_School_Dist._v._Doe

Oh how I love seeing people owned hard when they deserve it. Good post.

 

[Atreus21]

Peer pressure and a need to belong and fit in are a bitch.

So is an innate need to rebel against common sense and conventional wisdom for no other reason then that they are common and conventional.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

There is a huge difference between forcing the minority Christians to pray to Allay and forcing the majority Muslims to NOT pray to Allah because the minority Christians don't want to see it.

I'll agree that forcing no one to pray is absolutely wrong, but no one has forced anyone not to do anything.

You know i like you but for fucks sakes my friend, you have to let go of your rose colored religious goggles and see things for what they are.

You still get the majority rules is ridiculous thing, right? Well then, if you do, per your own constitution and our Magna Carta, you'll understand why a PUBLIC STATE FUNDED school cannot have prayer AND religious freedom side by side, it doesn't work like that.

Now majority rules cannot inflict on minorities in a democracy, nor can the minority inflict on the majorities right, but in this case, no ones rights are violated if they remove the led prayer.

Anyway, hope all is well.

 

[thraashman]

There is a huge difference between forcing the minority Christians to pray to Allay and forcing the majority Muslims to NOT pray to Allah because the minority Christians don't want to see it.

The thing you seem to fail to understand is that having a state run facility lead a Christian prayer IS forcing someone who is part of that school to participate in that prayer. Look at what happened to this kid for example, the simple fact that he stood up for the Constitution has destroyed much of his life. How many other kids now will be too afraid to stand up for their rights now if this school were to start doing a prayer daily? You don't have to hold a gun to someone's head to force them to do something, you just have to make it so unpopular for them to not that their fear of being different makes them do it. And not holding a prayer at a graduation isn't forcing anyone to NOT pray. It's NOT allowing the government employees to force a prayer into the event. Any student who wants to pray can do so before, after, hell during if they want. No one is stopping them, only it's not ok for the government to make everyone join in. And to try to say "well if you don't want to join in just keep your mouth shut" doesn't work either. While it's a more extreme example, we villify those who allowed Nazi's to gas Jews by keeping their mouths shut, that's the same principle just taken to the extreme. Keeping your mouth shut and doing nothing while rights and the Constitution are being violated is not an honorable thing.

 

[Atreus21]

No it's not your mind, it's your indoctrination.

Are you perchance mildly retarded, you have given in to a belief which requires that you give up looking for other answers and you think that is the same as an open mind?

From what source do you draw these stereotypes? Where exactly do Christians believe in suspending the search for answers? God exists, yes, but he doesn't give us all the answers. He wants us to stand on our own, as a father would a child.

Dogma? I have no dogma, there is nothing to believe or disbelieve, figure it out for yourself as best you can, be free tho think and don't assume that one teaching has all the answers.

Don't assume that one teaching has all the answers. Including "Don't assume that one teaching has all the answers."

Contradiction in terms.

If that is dogma then any thought is per your definition dogma, so every thought is an dogmatic thought...

Correct. When atheists accuse theists of nearly anything, they are engaging in the same act by which theists vilify those who don't believe in what they believe. To that extent they are no different in practice. Just in belief.

But of course, you are trying to defend something you wouldn't need to defend if you were not questioning it, welcome to the club i was in a good 30 years ago.

Everyone questions their faith. It's part of growth.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Interesting how for two hundred years we had no idea that the Constitution said that, huh? Interesting too how SCOTUS is perfectly fine with prayer at THEIR events, it's only other government events where there's a problem.

If we cannot honor one part of the First Amendment without violating another part, perhaps the answer is for the federal government to get out of education.

And for about 40 000 years humans had nothing to say about the Bible because it hadn't been invented yet...

I think Pony Man already explained why it's allowed at congressional meetings but not at public meetings, perhaps you should read the thread?

It might be time to abolish all religion and understand that it doesn't matter if you hate people in the name of Jesus or Allah, you're still being a fucking retard for beleiving in shit we have known to be false for hundreds of years by now.

Yeah, i'm talking creationism and the four corners of the world, the plate of the world too to include all three retarded Abrahamic indoctrinational writings.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

From what source do you draw these stereotypes? Where exactly do Christians believe in suspending the search for answers? God exists, yes, but he doesn't give us all the answers. He wants us to stand on our own, as a father would a child.



Don't assume that one teaching has all the answers. Including "Don't assume that one teaching has all the answers."

Contradiction in terms.



Correct. When atheists accuse theists of nearly anything, they are engaging in the same act by which theists vilify those who don't believe in what they believe. To that extent they are no different in practice. Just in belief.



Everyone questions their faith. It's part of growth.

Less Meth, more brain is probably what everyone should take home from reading this post.

There is nothing to reply to, just the musings of an utter retard who doesn't even understand the basics of rational thought.

 

[Red Dawn]

Oh yeah the Parents that tossed him out. I think there is much more to the story than we know.

They were probably threatened with expulsion from their church if they didn't. Fundies are funny that way.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Wow, those Jesus freaks really no how to spread the word of God eh? belittling and threats is what Christianity is all about after all..

 

[FerrelGeek]

You did read the part where these empowered decent and caring people harrass him, beat him up, kick him out of his home, disown him etc right? Such loving people, i can see why youd want more indoctrinated.

I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to a poster's statement. The type of behavior you described is hideous and unacceptable. I won't even attempt to excuse it. I can think of reasons why they might have reacted that way, but that's still not acceptable.

 

[FerrelGeek]

There is a huge difference between forcing the minority Christians to pray to Allay and forcing the majority Muslims to NOT pray to Allah because the minority Christians don't want to see it.

Correct.