Lots of trouble building Thunderbird 950 on an ASUS A7V (kind of long)

[Erasmus-X]

Man, I don't even know where to start. I've spent the past three days trying to get this system together for a bud and it just doesn't want to work like it should. What keeps happening is that the system will completely lock up during the Scandisk operation on either Win98SE or WinMe. Sometimes, it will even complete Scandisk but will shortly after abort the installation because of math errors.

First, here are all the specs:

Antec ATX "file server" case; 300W Antec PSU (AMD-approved)
ASUS A7V
Thunderbird 950 stock retail with retail heatsink/fan
384MB PC100 SDRAM (all Kingston PCB: Infineon, Toshiba, and IBM chips)
Guillemot Prophet II GTS 64MB
Maxtor 40GB 7,200rpm ATA/66
16x Acer IDE DVD
10x HP 9300 IDE CD-RW
SB Live! Platinum
Cambridge Soundworks FPS-2000 speakers
17" monitor

Now, here are all of the solutions I've tried, NONE of which have remedied the situation:

1) Took the Thunderbird 950 in for an exchange. The guy at Fry's Electronics threw the CPU into their test board (which is also an Asus A7V) and the chip booted into WinMe with no problems at all. He went ahead and gave me a new chip anyway, which was pretty cool of him.

2) I took the motherboard into a local mom and pop shop we picked it up at. They tested out the board on their bench and I witnessed them fully install a fresh copy of WinMe with absolutely no problems (albeit it was one of the T-bird 700s that were in the shop at the time; I guess I should have brought the 950 with me). They did all of this using the jumperless settings on the board. So, I was sort of relieved and took it home just to find out that I was having the same problems all over again. This is the point where I really started to think that there HAD to be something wrong with that CPU of mine.

3) Just for argument's sake, I was poking around in the BIOS and the temperature monitor was reporting the CPU running at 1.80V and at like 72 degrees celcius (!!!). The last time I checked, this Thunderbird is supposed to be running at the 1.75V core voltage. So, I set the board to manual mode to mess with the jumpers instead. I set the multiplier to 9.5 and the FSB to 100, along with changing the vcore to 1.75V. I booted the system and STILL the same damn problems. To top it off, the BIOS temperature monitor was still reporting 1.80V for the core. I've TRIPLE-checked these jumper settings, so I know they are correct.

4) Let's see, I've tried different video cards (Prophet II 64MB, ATI Rage 128 Pro 16MB, Voodoo5 5500), different hard drives (two other Maxtors plus a WD besides the 40GB it already has), different memory configs (128, 256, 384) with still no luck. I even tried an identical power supply from another empty case that was laying around with the same results. I'm simply just running out of options and I'm about ready to throw this whole system out the window.

Anybody experiencing a problem like this with this combo? I'm so frustrated because I built a very similarly equipped system for another friend of mine using the same motherboard and video card, except using a Thunderbird 750 instead. His system works perfectly. I've never built a system this finicky in my life. Any insight would be appreciated, thanx!

 

[NicColt]

wow 72c is a little to HOT check the heatsink to see if it's installed properly. You should be getting in the 45-55c zone. anything higher than 60 is looking for trouble.

 

[chiwawa626]

#2, yea, ive also experianced a report of a higher voltage than acutaly set, but dont wory, the voltage u set it to is what u have.

i wonder what you are doing wrong? Upgrade the bios to the latest, make sure u plug in the HD's to the right thing, (ata100 or 66) make sure when using ata100, u have a 80pin cable rather then 40 pin. Put it in jumperfree mode for right now. Also, make sure powersupply is AMD approoved as well as ur cooler, ur temp seems quite high, my tbird 900 at 1050 runs 51

also, keep bumping this thread, lot of people have solved their a7v problems, and they can help u

 

[chiwawa626]

Oh yeah, another thing, dont buy ram and stuff from Frys, somtimes they sell ram in REGULAR Static filled bags...bad

 

[Erasmus-X]

Oh, I NEVER buy RAM from Fry's. They don't even sell Kingston, only their own. The only thing we actually bought from them were the Antec case (which does have a 300W AMD-approved PSU) and the processor (which was retail packaged). I PRETTY sure I have the heatsink/fan seated correctly, because the heatsink can only snap on one way. I think I'll move back to jumperless settings and flash the BIOS and see if I have any luck. I'll post my results back shortly. Thanks guys!

UPDATE: Ok, I downloaded the latest BIOS from ASUS. The flash file has a .AWD extension and I'm wondering how exactly you actually use the file.

 

[HellRaven]

Have you....

Installed the latest VIA 4in1's?

Installed latest drivers for each video card?

Installed the latest BIOS?


this really sounds like you have an improperly installed heatsink. Normal operating temperatures for Tbirds/durons is from 30-50c.

 

[Erasmus-X]

<< Installed the latest VIA 4in1's? >>





<< Installed the latest drivers for your video card? >>



You need to read this post a little better. I can't even install Windows on this machine, so I certainly can't update those drivers until then. I'm going to try reflashing the BIOS and going back to jumperless settings. I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[blammo22]

Maybe try yanking out all cards except video... I had a lot of problems with my SBLive in my setup - I ended up replacing it with a Yamaha sound card. Try the most basic case: video-card only, 1 hard disk, 1 CD-ROM, 1 stick of memory. If you still have problems, you've at least narrowed down the possible culprit... Also try reducing setting the I/O voltage jumper down to 3.3V (the default listed in the manual is 3.56 for some reason - higher than usual) - this lowered my CPU temp quite a bit also...

 

[ColdTech]

Hell Raven... Windows or an OS that took drivers would be good before installing updated drivers...


Eras... Might try taking the MB &amp; Your CPU To where you bought the CPU from &amp; Have them try installing it there... If It works than just piece by piece change everything else you have... Might also want to try some high quality PC 133 ram &amp; If you are installing from a &quot;backup&quot; copy of windows see if you can get the original &amp; try that... (I had this problem but I actually do own the original)

 

[troubledshooter]

Just a postulation:

When I was checking out my 750 just for kicks to see how high it would go, there were various levels of stability:

Stable
Boots fine, runs stable for awhile, random crashes
boots to windows, crashes in a few min
Sometimes completes boot, sometimes crashes as loading windows
POSTS, never starts to load windows
Doesnt post.

From you problem it sounds like you are looking at something like step 3-4 up there. To me that would say you are overheating, or that your CPU just can't handle the frequency you are trying to run it at.

Ideas:

Underclock it (some ppl say this is a bad idea...I dunno if it can hurt it, but I've done it before without problems) and try your installation again, if it works, you were cheated.

If you have anohter comp, try tossing a HD that has windows on it in there. Even if it crashes at random times because of differing hardware, it will give you some idea that it is not the CPU/MOBO.

It may be your CD drive. You never know. If it is crashing only during installs, but on multiple OSes, you probably have a bad drive.

Take out all the memory but one stick. Try each stick one at a time.

If you have a more potent HSF, try that. See if temp goes down, and if it gets farther through the install. If so, good bet its heat. If with a VERY good HSF it still crashes though, prolly your CPU.

Also, of course while trying all this, remove all unecessary peripherals. Sound, etc. Go with the ATI card for install, it is the most-tried and true.

Best of luck. I didn't have that exact problem with my similar config, but LORD knows I had trouble.

 

[Erasmus-X]

Man, it's funny.....I've never had this much trouble building an Intel system. But my friend wanted 950MHz and the same thing from Intel would cost twice as much, so we went with a Thunderbird. I've already tried most of what you were recommending actually (taking out everything but the bare necessities like video, memory, hard drive, CD-ROM). I know that it isn't the DVD-ROM because I tried two other CD-ROM drives that have worked perfectly in other systems to no prevail. At this point, I'm almost CERTAIN that the CPU's temperature is what is causing these problems, because I've run into problems like this before (although not quite as bad as this one).

The retail heatsink/fan (which is a total pain in the butt to put on and take off) is seated properly, yet the processor temp. still approaches the mid 75c's. After a flash to the latest BIOS, the jumperless settings actually detected the core voltage correctly (1.75V) but I still seem to get the same problems. I've even tried a different heatsink/fan; same results. I'm probably just going to head down to Fry's and get my money back for this CPU. When you buy a CPU that is supposed to run at 950MHz STOCK (not overclocking here), it better damn well work at that speed with rock-solid stability.


I don't think that RAM is the problem either because all of this RAM works just fine in other machines. Since I'm not overclocking, PC100 should be sufficient.

Thanks for the suggestions though guys. I appreciate it.

 

[sandorski]

Since you seem to have 3 different ram sticks, I'd definitely try one stick at a time.

 

[Mem]

Erasmus-X ,I`ve seen this problem before you try to install Win98 &amp; you get Windows protection error or BSOD &amp; cannot get into safe mode or lockup when you try to run scandisk or when it boots into windows first time everything locks up (mouse etc),this happen to me once, keep trying to run scandisk(it took me 8 attempts &amp; a few hard reboots)&amp; on my system it found a loose cluster which I deleted after that Windows98 booted fine .

I was able to install the drivers etc,since then no problems ,really strange I know.And they are right about your temperature it should be in the 40-50 range or there about anyway what heatsink/fan are you using? Forgot to mention scandisk completed scan a few times but never found the loose cluster it did on the third attempt(another weird thing).I would definetly worry about your temperature this may be causing your lockups etc.

 

[mans]

I had exactly similar problem when was trying to install my T-bird 950 on A7V. I solved it as follows:

1) COOL your CPU and motherboard. I am using Chrome Orb fan and it is too weak to cool T-bird. So instead of throwing it away, I added a second 80mm fan on top of the processor and made extra holes in the case above the processor. I also directed a stream of cool air out of the room air conditioner into the case via 2? hose. For cooling, the motherboard, it is important to lower the clock generator chip temp. It is the chip located just below the IDE ports near DIP switches. For that, I added three case fans: one blowing directly to clock generator, and two exist the hot air from the case. My motherboard temp is between 25-28 and CPU?s is between 35-39 C.

2) In BIOS, set the core voltage to 1.65v.

3) I have heard many people complaining about BIOS 1004a/c and recommending 1003. Well, I am running 1004a and the system is 100% stable. I changed the system performance to normal and disabled byte merge.

4) Disable ACPI if going to install Win2K.

 

[troubledshooter]

I agree with your assessment of the CPU being able to run @ stock speed, but you won't be able to eliminate that as the problem ABSOLUTELY until you see if it will work underclocked. That is an optimal test for seeing if the problem is your CPU.

Other than that, it sounds like you have tried just about everything. I would also see about trying that other HD as I noted above.

good luck

 

[Erasmus-X]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I underclocked the processor a bit to 855MHz (9.5x95MHz) and it was able to successfully complete an installation of WinMe on the system. It still blows my mind that the HSF combo that is actually packaged with the retail T-Bird 950 is inadequate to cool the processor. So, I'm gonna go ahead and order a GlobalWin FOP38 (it's supposed to be a damn good HSF) and see what happens. Wish me luck....

 

[troubledshooter]

You just justified returning the processor

Although it might be simpler to just wait and check out your new fan, if it works underclocked, and not at stock, SEND THAT LITTLE SUCKER BACK! 'Cause you dun want it!



GW!

 

[Erasmus-X]

Heh, the thing is though is that this is a replacement processor that I received last week when I returned another identical one that was giving me the exact same problems (at first I thought I just got a bad chip). I'm going to just get that GlobalWin fan and hope that allows me to run the processor at the speed it was intended. By the looks of this, you would actually think that I got a remarked chip, but using fully automatic settings, the BIOS does detect it as a 950. Weird....

 

[troubledshooter]

that's EXACTLY what you would think. It IS possible Fry's is just doin that, but seems kinda unlikely.

Sit tight. Good luck

 

[sleepdragon]

I don't think it's the heat...lowing from 950 to 903 (you said you lower to 855 but 9.5*95 = 903..^^) won't reduce the heat by all that much...
and since the guy at fry's was able to use the default speed and boot no problem..this hint something else is the problem...

My guess would be...the RAM...b/c when you lowered the fsb from 100 to 95..you also lowered the memory speed from 100 to 95...what i would do is..try 1 stick of the ram and see what happened..you might want to check amd's website for amd approved ram first..

 

[Erasmus-X]

Approved approved approved....

Trust me, this has got to be heat. 72 degrees celcius is WAY hot for ANY processor. Reminds me of the old AMD K6 days. I don't know what temp. conditions they had over at that tech bench at Fry's, but I'm still convinced. I even yanked a Thunderbird 750 from another friend's system last night and that one works flawlessly at full clock speed, hovering around 45 degrees celcius. The only thing I can think of at this point is that the Thunderbird 950 is simply a hot-running processor.

And for a processor to not only require a &quot;special&quot; PSU, but then &quot;special&quot; memory and &quot;special&quot; hardware is simply ridiculous. Besides, I would think that this Kingston (heh, the BOSE of memory) that my friend bought would be AMD approved.

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys.

 

[DaddyG]

Erasmus, what version of the A7V do you have. V 1.01 had serious issues with BIRDS over 900. Also, you say that the stock heatsink is on OK, did you remember to remove the protective plastic film which covers the thermal compound ?? Most thermal greases can not handle the heat of a TBIRD and are not approved by AMD, only Phase Change Thermal Compound. Don't give up, you'll get there.

 

[troubledshooter]

I'm glad you are making headway, and from my share of these problems I know what it is like to BE SURE something is the problem and not bother trying something else. Trust us. Just try the RAM one stick at a time. For 2 weeks I couldn't get my graphics card stable. I could run RC5 on my system 24/7 no problem, but as soon as I opened a rendering program or a game, 30 seconds later I would crash. I was SURE it was my video card or drivers. Everyone else thought I had my CPU clocked too high. Guess what. It was CAS2 instead of CAS3. No joke. A week ago I switched to CAS3, 0 crashes since. 0.

best of luck, but if someone suggests something, read my sig, then decide if you really want to ignore the advice.

 

[Erasmus-X]

Thanks for all of the help guys. I probably did something stupid like forgetting to peel off the adhesive backing and ruining the conductive tape. So I went ahead and ordered that GlobalWin FOP38 HSF along with some conductive silver paste. I never would have thought that a stock CPU would be this difficult to get running correctly, but the good thing though is that I'm gaining experience.

I've been doing one stick of RAM at a time. I actually completed the full install of WinMe on only one of the 128MB sticks. I'll add the other two sticks as soon as I fix the rest of my problems. I'll keep this thread updated.

P.S.

BTW, the A7V board revision is 1.02 and flashed to the latest BIOS (1004c).