LOTR ROTK question...

[z0mb13]

so at the end of the movie, why did gandalf join frodo and bilbo on the boat to the undying lands?

 

[Zeeky Boogy Doog]

because his work was done

 

[ElFenix]

cuz gandalf is a minor god from the undying lands (along with radagast the brown, saruman, and sauron, and maybe tom bombadil)

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Two words, "Undying Lands". Nuff said.

 

[MaxDSP]

but why did Frodo go on the boat? I missed the last part of it

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: MaxDSP
but why did Frodo go on the boat? I missed the last part of it

Because he was a Ring-bearer

 

[Mandos]

Tom Bombadil wasn't a minor god. He wasnt anything, he was just there. You cant even mention him.

Heres the chain

Valar (Hardcore gods)
Maiar(Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, Balrog of Moria)
Elves
Men
Dwarves
Hobits


Down the line. Gandalf was sent by the Valar with 5 of his bretheren, the 5 Istari, or Wizards if you will, to tend to Middle Earth and ensure it didnt fall into Ruin like way back in the day.


EDIT:

Frodo was allowed, as was Bilbo, for their huge parts and their contributions to the fall of Sauron. Samwise Gamgee was also allowed passage for the same reason.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: MaxDSP
but why did Frodo go on the boat? I missed the last part of it

Because he'd possessed the ring for a while.

 

[Mandos]

Everything is explained. Read my first post in this thread.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Mandos
Tom Bombadil wasn't a minor god. He wasnt anything, he was just there. You cant even mention him.

Heres the chain

Valar (Hardcore gods)
Maiar(Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, Balrog of Moria)
Elves
Men
Dwarves
Hobits


Down the line. Gandalf was sent by the Valar with 5 of his bretheren, the 5 Istari, or Wizards if you will, to tend to Middle Earth and ensure it didnt fall into Ruin like way back in the day.

Bombadil was one of the "First Men" which, I believe, puts him above elves somewhere.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Mandos
Tom Bombadil wasn't a minor god. He wasnt anything, he was just there. You cant even mention him.

bombadil was probably maiar, though no one really knew what he was. but it just makes sense.

'first men' may make sense though he and beorn seem immortal, and men were mortal. elves were the first children of illuvatar, and no intelligent creatures were allowed before the elves.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Mandos
Samwise Gamgee was also allowed passage for the same reason.

No, he was allowed because he had worn the ring for a small period of time and that's enough.

Are we talking about the book or movie, because I refuse to watch the movies after they destroyed the story with the first one.

 

[Mandos]

First Men? I'd suggest both of you to re-read the Silmarillion, and the Letters of J.R.R. TOlkien, which explicitly explains that Bombadil has no explanation as to what he is, he just Is. May be a manifestation of Eru, or one of the Valar, but he is NOT a Maiar and he isn't comparable to the Elves or the Men.

And if he WAS one of the "Men", he'd be BELOW the Elves, as the Elves were the firstborn.

 

[Zeeky Boogy Doog]

what they said

 

[Mandos]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Mandos
Samwise Gamgee was also allowed passage for the same reason.

No, he was allowed because he had worn the ring for a small period of time and that's enough.

Are we talking about the book or movie, because I refuse to watch the movies after they destroyed the story with the first one.

Read my last post. We are talking about the books my friend. He wasnt allowed because he had worn the ring. Did you not read the books? Do you know Gimli's fate? He too took a ship to the undying lands, with Legolas.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Mandos
First Men? I'd suggest both of you to re-read the Silmarillion, and the Letters of J.R.R. TOlkien, which explicitly explains that Bombadil has no explanation as to what he is, he just Is. May be a manifestation of Eru, or one of the Valar, but he is NOT a Maiar and he isn't comparable to the Elves or the Men.

And if he WAS one of the "Men", he'd be BELOW the Elves, as the Elves were the firstborn.

'first men' is from a work published by tolkien while he was alive, maybe you need to go back and read, instead of just taking from notes that were only organized posthumously.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Mandos
First Men? I'd suggest both of you to re-read the Silmarillion, and the Letters of J.R.R. TOlkien, which explicitly explains that Bombadil has no explanation as to what he is, he just Is. May be a manifestation of Eru, or one of the Valar, but he is NOT a Maiar and he isn't comparable to the Elves or the Men.

And if he WAS one of the "Men", he'd be BELOW the Elves, as the Elves were the firstborn.

Elrond or Gandalf mentions that if Bombadil had the ring, not even Sauron could take it from him...he's not below elves.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Mandos


Read my last post. We are talking about the books my friend. He wasnt allowed because he had worn the ring. Did you not read the books? Do you know Gimli's fate? He too took a ship to the undying lands, with Legolas.

iirc it doesn't say that either of them ever made it, it doesn't even say they took one of cirdan's ships.

 

[Yossarian]

nerd battle!

 

[Mandos]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Mandos


Read my last post. We are talking about the books my friend. He wasnt allowed because he had worn the ring. Did you not read the books? Do you know Gimli's fate? He too took a ship to the undying lands, with Legolas.

iirc it doesn't say that either of them ever made it, it doesn't even say they took one of cirdan's ships.

You're funny.

 

[Mandos]

I'm well versed in Tolkien, and I know my facts. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'm right and j0or all wrong!

 

[ElFenix]

heck i have suspicion that the heart of the mountain was the buried silmaril, but tolkien never did anything with it.

 

[Mandos]

Oh, and I'm done in this thread. His question has been answered.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Mandos

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Mandos
Samwise Gamgee was also allowed passage for the same reason.

No, he was allowed because he had worn the ring for a small period of time and that's enough.

Are we talking about the book or movie, because I refuse to watch the movies after they destroyed the story with the first one.

Read my last post. We are talking about the books my friend. He wasnt allowed because he had worn the ring. Did you not read the books? Do you know Gimli's fate? He too took a ship to the undying lands, with Legolas.

No, dude. Dwarves and elves were allowed to go anytime they wanted...but hobbits and men among pretty much anything else weren't...but possessing the ring elevated them into that plane.

Hell, maybe I'm wrong, I've only read it once.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Mandos
I'm well versed in Tolkien, and I know my facts. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'm right and j0or all wrong!

well you hadn't heard of 'first men' and it is clearly mentioned in the hobbit.