LOTR question (Movie)

[jdoggg12]

Why did Aragorn release the ghosts when he did? Why would he not use their services one more time to storm Saurons fortress?

I realize he was bound to release them, but it seems that keeping them around wouldn't be too much to ask - they were bound to him for the war, not a single battle, no?

Just a curiosity I had as I'm watching it on TNT-HD right now

 

[ChaoZ]

Cause he said he would release them if they kill off the army.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I thought that they were originally cursed because they fled instead of defending Gondor with Ilsidor. It seems appropriate that the curse should be lifted after they defended it successfully for Aragorn. I suppose he could have lifted the curse any time he wished, but Aragorn's all honorable and stuff. He knew the ghost army had done what was required of them for the curse to be lifted, so he lifted it.

 

[jdoggg12]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Cause he said he would release them if they kill off the army.

they didn't kill off the army, they only killed off that attack - there was still 10k+ orcs in mordor.

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I thought that they were originally cursed because they fled instead of defending Gondor with Ilsidor. It seems appropriate that the curse should be lifted after they defended it successfully for Aragorn. I suppose he could have lifted the curse any time he wished, but Aragorn's all honorable and stuff. He knew the ghost army had done what was required of them for the curse to be lifted, so he lifted it.

This makes more sense.... but still, they're in eminent danger from a second attack... so holding them until the danger is passed doesn't seem dishonorable.

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Cause he said he would release them if they kill off the army.

they didn't kill off the army, they only killed off that attack - there was still 10k+ orcs in mordor.

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I thought that they were originally cursed because they fled instead of defending Gondor with Ilsidor. It seems appropriate that the curse should be lifted after they defended it successfully for Aragorn. I suppose he could have lifted the curse any time he wished, but Aragorn's all honorable and stuff. He knew the ghost army had done what was required of them for the curse to be lifted, so he lifted it.

This makes more sense.... but still, they're in eminent danger from a second attack... so holding them until the danger is passed doesn't seem dishonorable.

Because then the last movie wouldn't be the longest like it was supposed to be... each film got progressively longer =P

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Then Aragorn said: "The hour is come at last. Now I go to Pelargir upon Anduin, and ye shall come after me. And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron, I will hold the oath fulfilled, and ye shall have peace and depart for ever. For I am Elessar, Isildur's heir of Gondor."

The oath Aragorn got from them was to save Gondor only, not invade Mordor. Once the battle was over their oath was fulfilled and Aragorn had to free them.

 

[meltdown75]

what he said ^

 

[Jadow]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
Why did Aragorn release the ghosts when he did? Why would he not use their services one more time to storm Saurons fortress?

I realize he was bound to release them, but it seems that keeping them around wouldn't be too much to ask - they were bound to him for the war, not a single battle, no?

Just a curiosity I had as I'm watching it on TNT-HD right now

He did because he wasn't a jacka55, but if I were him I'd have at least asked them if they'd be willing to stick around a couple more weeks. I mean after thousands of years, what's a couple weeks.

We could use those guys in Iraq or hunting or Bin Laden right now.

 

[irishScott]

*Spoilers*









This is why you read the books. They're good reads too. Books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Movies.

Also, to give you an idea of what you're missing, the elves never show up at Helm's deep, and the wall doesn't get blown apart. And Eomer doesn't rescue Helm's deep. The second movie has so many flaws it's pathetic. It's good as a stand-alone movie, but they modified a lot of plot to fit the time constraints.

And the battles are so pathetically simple when compared to the books. In the books they actually use tactics. The Rohirrim sneaks into Gondor and takes the Orcs by suprise. They don't just show up in a line and charge.

They also left out the hobbit warriors in Return of the King, something I will never forgive them for. (I won't reveal any more in case you decide to take up the books). Seriously though, the shire as a whole gets involved.

 

[meltdown75]

i work with a guy who seriously knows EVERY WORD of the movies but has never read the books.

that's just not right.

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: irishScott
*Spoilers*









This is why you read the books. They're good reads too. Books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Movies.

Also, to give you an idea of what you're missing, the elves never show up at Helm's deep, and the wall doesn't get blown apart. And Eomer doesn't rescue Helm's deep. The second movie has so many flaws it's pathetic. It's good as a stand-alone movie, but they modified a lot of plot to fit the time constraints.

And the battles are so pathetically simple when compared to the books. In the books they actually use tactics. The Rohirrim sneaks into Gondor and takes the Orcs by suprise. They don't just show up in a line and charge.

It's been a couple years since I've read them but I could have sworn the elves DO show up at Helm's Deep.

Either way, I agree that the second movie is terrible as an adaptation. All that shit about Aragorn going over the cliffs and Liv Tyler showing up was enough to make me want to throw up in my mouth. These weren't meant to be romance novels, just give us men the action we want and if the women don't like it too bad.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I thought that they were originally cursed because they fled instead of defending Gondor with Ilsidor. It seems appropriate that the curse should be lifted after they defended it successfully for Aragorn. I suppose he could have lifted the curse any time he wished, but Aragorn's all honorable and stuff. He knew the ghost army had done what was required of them for the curse to be lifted, so he lifted it.

That, and it's probably not good to piss off the undead, especially an entire army of them.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: aplefka

Originally posted by: irishScott
*Spoilers*









This is why you read the books. They're good reads too. Books >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Movies.

Also, to give you an idea of what you're missing, the elves never show up at Helm's deep, and the wall doesn't get blown apart. And Eomer doesn't rescue Helm's deep. The second movie has so many flaws it's pathetic. It's good as a stand-alone movie, but they modified a lot of plot to fit the time constraints.

And the battles are so pathetically simple when compared to the books. In the books they actually use tactics. The Rohirrim sneaks into Gondor and takes the Orcs by suprise. They don't just show up in a line and charge.

It's been a couple years since I've read them but I could have sworn the elves DO show up at Helm's Deep.

Either way, I agree that the second movie is terrible as an adaptation. All that shit about Aragorn going over the cliffs and Liv Tyler showing up was enough to make me want to throw up in my mouth. These weren't meant to be romance novels, just give us men the action we want and if the women don't like it too bad.

Ah yes. Forgot about that. Also, I don't think there ever was a pitched battle with the Wargs. I remember some Rohirrim scouts reported them, but IIRC they were between the Rohirrim and Helm's deep, and the Rohirrim just charged and they scattered with minimal resistance.

Also, just checked the book. Elves don't show up. Theoden rides out with Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli/Gandalf from Edoras to Helm's Deep, Gandalf leaves when they get close, and there are already 1000 or so Rohirrim already at Helm's Deep. Theoden and the the 1000 join forces, and then Saruman's army closes off the valley.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
i work with a guy who seriously knows EVERY WORD of the movies but has never read the books.

that's just not right.

Not right at all. He's only a poseur, not a true geek.

 

[jdoggg12]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: meltdown75
i work with a guy who seriously knows EVERY WORD of the movies but has never read the books.

that's just not right.

Not right at all. He's only a poseur, not a true geek.

hahaha, that made me literally LOL

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: meltdown75
i work with a guy who seriously knows EVERY WORD of the movies but has never read the books.

that's just not right.

Not right at all. He's only a poseur, not a true geek.

for srsly. every day it's, "meat's back on the menu boys!" or, "what about their legs? they don't need their legs!"
*sigh*

edit: i am proud to be a geek... and not a nerd... :Q

 

[NikolaeVarius]

http://www.jackflannel.org/lotr/

Here's a list of all the differences. Can't believe he did all this.

 

[Steve]

I read the books once, but not very well. It was so long ago I hardly remember them. That said, ROTK was on TNTHD tonight and I was thinking that very question to myself. Aside from the oath, I also wondered what sort of influence Sauron could wield over the dead. That would ruin things for the good guys.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Something of a plot hole created in the movies that isn't a problem as it is in the book, although the explanation that they fulfilled their duties of defending Gondor seems to be "good enough"

The green ghosts of the movie were actually killing enemies, whereas in the book they offer no true physical threat (which is why Legolas is not afraid, because he's basically not an idiot), but are so terrifying that they drive away the enemies by fear of sight alone (think of ?scared to death?, only literally in some cases here).

Of course Aragorn wasn't only accompanied by Gimili and Legolas like in the movie, they're accompanied by the Grey Company, a group of elves (Elrond?s two sons) and dunedain (guys like Aragorn) and other men - basically the most badass fighting force you could hope for - they're the ones that actually meet up to fight in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, not the green instant kill quick fix of the movie.

So Aragorn liberates parts of Gondor freeing up a lot of men to go to defend Minas Tirith and makes it to the ships and uses the undead to drive off the forces and capture a bunch of ships for he and the Grey Company to sail in on.

Basically what I understood is that the undead couldn't provide any physical help and in an actual battle situation they'd be pretty much useless, instead they were useful because they were capable of driving off crucial Mordor forces by fear alone before they could go and meet up and attack Minas Tirith.

Instead of receiving reinforcements, the forces attacking Minas Tirith were flanked by Aragorn and the Grey Company as well as liberated forces that had been withheld from going to defend Minas Tirith in order to defend other parts of Gondor that had also been under siege.

But with the movie they obviously had time constraints and showing an unstoppable killing green cloud of ghosts seemed to be the best course of action to keep the movie under 6 hours

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: jdoggg12

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Cause he said he would release them if they kill off the army.

they didn't kill off the army, they only killed off that attack - there was still 10k+ orcs in mordor.

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I thought that they were originally cursed because they fled instead of defending Gondor with Ilsidor. It seems appropriate that the curse should be lifted after they defended it successfully for Aragorn. I suppose he could have lifted the curse any time he wished, but Aragorn's all honorable and stuff. He knew the ghost army had done what was required of them for the curse to be lifted, so he lifted it.

This makes more sense.... but still, they're in eminent danger from a second attack... so holding them until the danger is passed doesn't seem dishonorable.

Because then the last movie wouldn't be the longest like it was supposed to be... each film got progressively longer =P

I love the multiple endings. Actually it's one ending, but it seems like an ending one after another after another after another...You get my point. God what a long movie.

 

[Demo24]

first of all the fulfilled the duty Aragon needed them to do and second of all the stand at Mordor was not really in place then.


I do have some questions about this though. I have yet to read the books(apart from 'the hobbitt') but I will sometime. Whats the deal with the Elves and the ship that leads into the light? I don't quite understand why they go on that journey and what it does for those that do. Anyone care to explain?

 

[pyonir]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b0sc-gS9AqM

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
http://www.jackflannel.org/lotr/

Here's a list of all the differences. Can't believe he did all this.

LOL, that page is just insanity!

106. Sam goes into Bag End and sits down before saying to Rosie, "Well, I'm back" (ROTK p.385). Jackson has Sam tell Rosie he's back in front of 3 Bagshot Row before they go inside.

Damn you Jackson!