Losers in the unions vs. Wal-Mart game: D.C.'s poor (UPDATE)

[KDOG]

This reminds me of this episode. It is hilarious how fucking stupid the hatred of walmart is in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A473rAQjsZc

Lol. Just watched the whole thing. That was great -especially the topless scene!

 

[cubby1223]

F Wal-Mart and their slave driver wages while they make record profits.

The thing is when compared to their direct rivals Wal*Mart pay equal and often better hourly wages than the competition.

 

[Exterous]

No where in that article does it say 4% of Costco's workers are from 3rd party contractors

About 4 percent of its workers, including those who give away samples and sell mobile phones, are part-time and employed by contractors, though Costco says it seeks to ensure they have above-industry-average pay.

Would you like a silver platter for your ass before its handed to you?

Reiterate: dumbass.

Actually - s0me0nesmind1 is right. I would point out the article only refers to PART TIME contract workers. No where does it mention the total number or percent of all contract workers. It may very well be that they only use part-time contract workers but you cannot confirm that Costco only contracts out 4% of its labor force from this article.

I will state that, as a long time Costco shareholder and a Costco member, I did the math on # of employees, number of stores and compared what 4% of the work force would mean per store and the stores in my area use about 3x to 4x as many contractors as the part-time numbers would suggest they use. Thats not hard fact but it makes me suspicious

 

[cubby1223]

I do love the people who bitch all up and down on the evil of Wal*Mart... only to turn around and buy anything and everything from Amazon. Ha!

 

[Spungo]

Anyway, good to know France is doing so well with its attempted 75% tax rate and the "one-time" in 2011 of taxing people more than they made in a year and things.

You realize taxes in the US were up around 90% at one time, right? That was during America's golden age of prosperity. The current tax rates are the lowest they've ever been and the country is going to shit. Even after the extreme taxation, the average or lower class French family is doing a lot better than the average American family.

France:
The government jacks half of your income, but you and your kids have full medical coverage as well as day care and access to higher education. You never really feel stressed out because safety nets are in place.

USA:
Debt slavery. The cost of day care exceeds the cost of a mortgage, so your kids are watched by crackhead Yolonda while you're at work. You can't afford braces, so your kids have really fucked up teeth. Going to a doctor would cost too much, so you attempt improvised medical care. Your kids go to university and get degrees in things like physics and chemistry then meet the harsh reality that both of those fields are totally dead. This leaves them with debt that will take years or possibly decades to pay off because driving a forklift only pays $12/h.


The most interesting things to read are the stories from people who have lived in two countries and can directly compare the two.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126225920AAwCSgq

In the US, when I was a high school teacher, the difference was 28% with my employer paying 90% of my health insurance. If my employer had covered only 50 to 60% as a lot of companies do, the difference between my gross and net would have been well over the 32% I paid in France. Now that we are both self-employed, our income tax is 24%. This doesn't include social security or any form of retirement saving, it doesn't include health care or any social benefit either. So my husband and I calculated that what goes into those 32% in France would cost us a minimum of 70% of our income here for even less coverage. We cannot of course afford to spend that much otherwise we couldn't pay for housing and food, so between income tax, a crappy health insurance that hardly covers anything and a 401K, this amounts to over 40% (55% if I paid social security, which I don't) of our gross income. Now French friends of ours here who belong to a different income bracket (they are very rich - the husband is a CEO of a corporation and both have very high incomes) told us that they had calculated all their taxes and that all in all they were paying more here than in France. So I don't know how figures are calculated in world comparative charts (French companies and employers are indeed very heavily burdened by taxes) but the reality is often different and the average French employee is probably less taxed than their American counterpart.

That's basically what I just said. If you added cost of living things like medical insurance and day care to your US tax burden since those things are already covered by French taxes, you'll find that the adjusted cost of living in the US is astoundingly high compared to France and much of Europe. It's considered normal for Americans to heavily rely on debt. Europeans have significantly less debt because their cost of living is so much lower. It's actually possible to save money if you live in France or Norway or Denmark.

 

[fskimospy]

Actually - s0me0nesmind1 is right. I would point out the article only refers to PART TIME contract workers. No where does it mention the total number or percent of all contract workers. It may very well be that they only use part-time contract workers but you cannot confirm that Costco only contracts out 4% of its labor force from this article.

Are you seriously attempting to argue that the author meant to talk only about those workers that are part time contract employees as opposed to all contract employees? That strains credulity.

I will admit that it is poorly phrased, but the intent of the statement is obvious, particularly within the scope of the larger article.

someonesmind will almost certainly abandon this thread and never come back and address the fact that he talked shit to me about not researching something when he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.

I will state that, as a long time Costco shareholder and a Costco member, I did the math on # of employees, number of stores and compared what 4% of the work force would mean per store and the stores in my area use about 3x to 4x as many contractors as the part-time numbers would suggest they use. Thats not hard fact but it makes me suspicious

Yes, anecdotal evidence is not very useful. I have been to many, many costcos in my life. According to my math the average Costco should have somewhere around 10-11 contract workers at it, with 6-7 working on any given day. I most certainly have not been in a Costco with 28 separate food sampling people working on a given day, but I guess your mileage may vary.

 

[ivwshane]

Actually - s0me0nesmind1 is right. I would point out the article only refers to PART TIME contract workers. No where does it mention the total number or percent of all contract workers. It may very well be that they only use part-time contract workers but you cannot confirm that Costco only contracts out 4% of its labor force from this article.

I will state that, as a long time Costco shareholder and a Costco member, I did the math on # of employees, number of stores and compared what 4% of the work force would mean per store and the stores in my area use about 3x to 4x as many contractors as the part-time numbers would suggest they use. Thats not hard fact but it makes me suspicious

No he is wrong and you are as well. They only said part time because the contractors are only needed part time. They don't have full time contractors in any meaningful numbers.


The average Costco has around 250-500 employees (not contractors). The sample people aren't there open to close nor do they work seven days a week in full force.

 

[BoberFett]

You realize taxes in the US were up around 90% at one time, right? That was during America's golden age of prosperity. The current tax rates are the lowest they've ever been and the country is going to shit.

You do realize that no rich people actually paid that rate, don't you?

Even after the extreme taxation, the average or lower class French family is doing a lot better than the average American family.

Got any proof or are you just pulling that out of your ass?

Europeans have significantly less debt because their cost of living is so much lower.

Wow, yeah, you're pulling it out of your ass.

Compare the price of shelter, owned or rented, per square foot. Compare the coast of fuel. Compare the cost of food. The cost of living in the US is pretty low for a developed nation. We just buy more shit here. Bigger houses, more cars, more shit.

 

[fskimospy]

Got any proof or are you just pulling that out of your ass?

While there are quite a few countries with much higher tax rates than the US that beat us pretty soundly on quality of life (depending on the study), France is not generally one of them.

 

[cubby1223]

You realize taxes in the US were up around 90% at one time, right? That was during America's golden age of prosperity.

You do realize that this was also a period of time when the entire fucking civilized world outside of the United States had been destroyed by WWII, right?

Unless you are simultaneously advocating another inhalation of Europe and Asia, your argument is utter bullshit.

 

[BoberFett]

While there are quite a few countries with much higher tax rates than the US that beat us pretty soundly on quality of life (depending on the study), France is not generally one of them.

Presumably you're talking about the Nordic countries? Maybe Australia/NZ?

I guess it depends on what you consider quality of life. Those other places consider quality of life to be about stability, security, friends and family, culture. Americans consider quality of life to be buying more shit than their neighbors and we have the economy to prove it.

 

[OGOC]

You realize taxes in the US were up around 90% at one time, right? That was during America's golden age of prosperity. The current tax rates are the lowest they've ever been and the country is going to shit.

Few people paid that rate. It's easy to look up studies that show that people actually pay more taxes now than they did back then. And that includes rich people.

Also since we're on the subject, consider how it wasn't that long ago rates were higher but you could deduct things like credit card interest.

Current tax rates are not the lowest they've ever been because the income tax rate used to be zero.

 

[woolfe9998]

The bill applies to "large retailers," not just Walmart.

In any event, it's moot as it looks like the mayor will veto it anyway:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...7aae38-eb24-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html

 

[sportage]

Best line:
"Hey Wally World... Im your employee, not your Ni@@er."

A southern based company still believing in slavery.
Go figure...

 

[fskimospy]

Presumably you're talking about the Nordic countries? Maybe Australia/NZ?

I guess it depends on what you consider quality of life. Those other places consider quality of life to be about stability, security, friends and family, culture. Americans consider quality of life to be buying more shit than their neighbors and we have the economy to prove it.

Sure, quality of life means different things to different people. Generally the Nordic countries outdo the US by most measures, but it isn't only them. I don't think I've seen a single quality of life measure that ranks France above the US though, so you're right on that.

 

[fskimospy]

The bill applies to "large retailers," not just Walmart.

In any event, it's moot as it looks like the mayor will veto it anyway:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...7aae38-eb24-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html

It really seems like a dumb idea to me. Sure it applies to all large retailers, but even then it seems like a bad plan. While I think WalMart is a terrible business I don't think that this legislation is a good answer.

 

[Incorruptible]

You realize taxes in the US were up around 90% at one time, right? That was during America's golden age of prosperity. The current tax rates are the lowest they've ever been and the country is going to shit. Even after the extreme taxation, the average or lower class French family is doing a lot better than the average American family.

France:
The government jacks half of your income, but you and your kids have full medical coverage as well as day care and access to higher education. You never really feel stressed out because safety nets are in place.

USA:
Debt slavery. The cost of day care exceeds the cost of a mortgage, so your kids are watched by crackhead Yolonda while you're at work. You can't afford braces, so your kids have really fucked up teeth. Going to a doctor would cost too much, so you attempt improvised medical care. Your kids go to university and get degrees in things like physics and chemistry then meet the harsh reality that both of those fields are totally dead. This leaves them with debt that will take years or possibly decades to pay off because driving a forklift only pays $12/h.


The most interesting things to read are the stories from people who have lived in two countries and can directly compare the two.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126225920AAwCSgq


That's basically what I just said. If you added cost of living things like medical insurance and day care to your US tax burden since those things are already covered by French taxes, you'll find that the adjusted cost of living in the US is astoundingly high compared to France and much of Europe. It's considered normal for Americans to heavily rely on debt. Europeans have significantly less debt because their cost of living is so much lower. It's actually possible to save money if you live in France or Norway or Denmark.

This country was built on the free market and we were prosperous. Since we are now more oriented towards big government of course we will suffer as expected. Those countries have less freedom.

If you want prosperity then the free market is the way to go but if you want suffering then go with big government.

 

[Patranus]

so u rather have 1800 inner city people be unemployed vs working minimum wage?!

stupid logic

Yes they would considering they would rather have welfare instead of workfare programs.

God forbid they fight a corporation to bring a liveable wage to the area. Also that $8 job just means that the govt subsidizes the rest of the salary.

Love this "livable wage" argument. It is nonsense.
You can live on ANY wage if you put your mind to it. It is entitled ass clowns that think people are entitled to cell phones, computers, cars, internet, ect. that bring up this nonsense.

 

[waggy]

its a fucking cashier job. living wage?


when i worked at walmart (22 years ago or so) i made MORE then any other place in town. Including TARGET.

at least until lowes came in. heh

 

[Zebo]

Why work at all when you can be on disability and your 4 kids too for "ADHD" and make 50K a year TAX FREE? Thats a living wage doing nothing not to mention great healthcare called 100% paid medicaid. Screw wal-mart drive to burbs in your escalade for cheap prices and to cash checks.

Until our social welfare system is addressed from massive fraud SSI to making other forms of welfare workfare like FDR did there is little incentive to work for low wages.

 

[BoberFett]

Until our social welfare system is addressed from massive fraud SSI to making other forms of welfare workfare like FDR did there is little incentive to work for low wages.

I was at Gooseberry Falls up on the north shore of Superior last year and was at the visitors center reading about the Civilian Conservation Corp and how they built the public park system in this country. A bunch of young guys with shovels getting $1/day plus room and board (meaning a tent and whatever they cooked up). Incredible what they accomplished, and no handouts in sight. I'd be all for reviving that program. You could never do that today though.

 

[Zebo]

We'll have to eventually bober. This bleeding can't continue. SSI and food stamps has quadupled last 10 years. So called welfare reform did nothing ppl and thier children just went on SSI aka the new welfare. Medicare/caid 10x in last 30. Bernake knows it leads to Zimbabwe hence jacking rates forcing politicians hand. It will get worse. Normal 6% interest on debt would consume half tax receipts.

 

[Spungo]

You do realize that no rich people actually paid that rate, don't you?

Then why would you assume that rich people pay 75% tax in France?

Compare the price of shelter, owned or rented, per square foot. Compare the coast of fuel. Compare the cost of food. The cost of living in the US is pretty low for a developed nation. We just buy more shit here. Bigger houses, more cars, more shit.

You're seriously concerned about the cost of food? I buy the most overpriced, pre-made crap in the world and it still only accounts for 15% of my budget. Gasoline is about 5% of my budget. Why are you intentionally dodging the big costs people actually care about like education, health care, day care, and retirement savings? This isn't another pissing contest where you're supposed to say "AMERICA IS #1!!" regardless of facts. Doing that only prevents the country from improving because it causes people to ignore problems.

University in the US - data:
$8,655 per year for state residents at public colleges

University in France:
It's about $500 to get a 4 year degree. Despite this, wiki says France actually has slightly fewer people who have post secondary education. This really shows the difference in wages and standard of living in the two countries. In the US, people are clearly told that you need to go to college if you want to be middle class and not "flipping burgers" or whatever. People in France have a very different attitude: why is it so important to go to college when even the people working at McDonalds have things like full medical coverage and they can retire at some point? There isn't a mad rush to avoid being lower class because they pretty much don't have a lower class.

Medical care is fairly obvious. I think everyone here already understands that everything in the US is incredibly expensive compared to everywhere else. Viagra in the US costs something like $20 per pill? In all other countries it's maybe 1/5th that. Medical care is the leading cause of bankruptcy in America. Over in France, a McDonalds or Walmart employee's cancer treatment is completely "free" (through taxes) so they're not forced to sell everything they own.

While France doesn't really have an upper class due to heavy taxation, they don't really have a lower class due to all of the government swag. The poverty line in France and the US are set roughly the same, but France's poverty rate is about 6.2% while USA's poverty rate is around 15.1%. wiki, use the CIA Factbook numbers

What's truly mind boggling is how people want to increase that number and create an even larger population of desperate peasants in the US. In this thread, how many people suggested removing benefits from poor people as the solution? Why do these people hate America so much? It's bad enough that we already have one of the lowest savings rates of all of the OECD nations. link. French people manage to save an impressive 16% of their income in 2012 while Americans only manage to save 4% and that's while "everything" is apparently more expensive in France (assuming by "everything" the person means minor shit that accounts for a very very small percentage of your overall budget).

 

[berzerker60]

Look at me, I'm a businessman.

I have plans for a store that I estimate will make $10,000k in profits per year after five years.
Then a law changes, and I only stand to make $1,000k in profits per year after five years.

Some might say $1k in profits is better than $0k in profits, using basic mathematics. But I guess I'll just spite myself and not open the store! LIBERALS!!!!

 

[monovillage]

The thing is when compared to their direct rivals Wal*Mart pay equal and often better hourly wages than the competition.

Yeah, but the unions are getting their cut and that's what it's about. A cut for corrupt unions and a cut for corrupt politicians.