Loose steering on JGC 2000...

[mvbighead]

Well, I am pretty sure it is tie rod ends. Looking through youtubes, seems like something that should be fairly doable DIY (just need to get an alignment after).

Question is, should I just replace faulty tie rod ends, or should I go through and replace them all.

I am kinda leaning towards the do them all route. Peace of mind, completely tight steering. Don't have to worry about replacing another one in the near future. Etc.

Another question is, which brand of tie rod ends should I consider? Does it matter?

Jeep GC AWD (Quaddrive) 2000, w/152k miles. I am thinking either cheap (since it is an older vehicle and may not outlast the new cheapo tie rod ends) or Moogs from RockAuto.

Also, is there anything else I should consider with the steering. Seems to me tie rod ends fit the symptoms I am having (lots of play in the steering wheel), but I would guess there could be something else as well.

Thanks for your input.

 

[herm0016]

tie rods are a good place to start. do they feel loose? check joints in the steering shaft and the steering gear or rack for play also. (not sure if it is rack and pinion or not) I would get the moog joints. usually not that much more money. you may need to buy a pickle fork too.

pickle fork

 

[IHAVEAQUESTION]

It can also be motor & tranny mounts.

 

[mvbighead]

It can also be motor & tranny mounts.

Curious about this one. If I have play in the steering wheel when parked (about 2 inches or so), neither the motor nor tranny should be involved, right? I'm 90% sure this is true, but as you brought this up, I figured I should ask as maybe I am missing something.

 

[CraigRT]

I would just replace the 2 outer tie rod ends.
Most people would say just to do 1, but if they are the same age, the second one is not long to follow (if only one is bad) and that means a 2nd alignment ideally.

I would replace both tie rod ends if one is bad (they both might be) and get an alignment after both are done.

Also check for ball joint play while you are down there. Just watch the joints while you move the wheel at all angles.

 

[IHAVEAQUESTION]

2 inches play is a lot, I didn't know that.

Perhaps it's the tie rod, but motor mounts fixed 95% of my steering shake. I am still having a bit of play, which I am trying to solve as well.

 

[mvbighead]

2 inches play is a lot, I didn't know that.

Perhaps it's the tie rod, but motor mounts fixed 95% of my steering shake. I am still having a bit of play, which I am trying to solve as well.

I don't really have a shake (or death wobble as they seem to call it), just a lotta play.

 

[mvbighead]

I would just replace the 2 outer tie rod ends.
Most people would say just to do 1, but if they are the same age, the second one is not long to follow (if only one is bad) and that means a 2nd alignment ideally.

I would replace both tie rod ends if one is bad (they both might be) and get an alignment after both are done.

Also check for ball joint play while you are down there. Just watch the joints while you move the wheel at all angles.

So inners are less susceptible to failure? Just curious why you wouldn't change all of them if you were willing to do both inners.

Obviously, this is new to me. I just figure, if I am spending $120ish bucks + alignment to do all four, or $60ish bucks + alignment to do two, why not do all four?

I am now really leaning towards ordering all 4 just so I don't have to get it re-aligned later if I miss something. I've jacked up the jeep and there was some play to the wheel (not a lot, but some), but I suppose I should've just removed the tires and really inspected things.

I dunno, at this point, my cart is at $115 (shipping included) with all 4 tie rod ends. Rather than leave something else to chance, I am thinking just replace them all and get the alignment and be done with it... hopefully. Could order them now, and have them for next weekend I would think.

This is what my cart looks like thus far:
MOOG Part # ES3473 Problem Solver
Problem Solver - incl. powdered-metal gusher bearing to allow grease to penetrate bearing surfaces; Front Left Outer
$26.79 $26.79
MOOG Part # ES3472 Problem Solver
Problem Solver - incl. powdered-metal gusher bearing to allow grease to penetrate bearing surfaces; Right Outer (Steering Arm To Steering Arm)
$25.79 $25.79
MOOG Part # ES3475 Problem Solver
Problem Solver - incl. powdered-metal gusher bearing to allow grease to penetrate bearing surfaces; Front Left Inner To Pitman Arm
$25.79 $25.79
MOOG Part # ES3474 Problem Solver
Problem Solver - incl. powdered-metal gusher bearing to allow grease to penetrate bearing surfaces; Right Outer (Pitman Arm To Steering Arm)
$24.79 $24.79

 

[natto fire]

I have the same year Cherokee, and I am preparing to replace most of the bushings as well as some steering components. These things handle pretty bad to begin with so, like you, I would lean more towards replacing suspension parts in sets to ensure even wear on both sides. Luckily the suspension is not too complicated and the parts are relatively inexpensive.

My vote is to do all tie-rod ends if it is affordable and you are planning on keeping it a while.

 

[mvbighead]

I have the same year Cherokee, and I am preparing to replace most of the bushings as well as some steering components. These things handle pretty bad to begin with so, like you, I would lean more towards replacing suspension parts in sets to ensure even wear on both sides. Luckily the suspension is not too complicated and the parts are relatively inexpensive.

My vote is to do all tie-rod ends if it is affordable and you are planning on keeping it a while.

Yep, the plan is to have it a while. It gets driven 2-3 times a week, and more often in the winter.

I'd like to ask, what else are you planning on replacing? I had seen some thread on another forum about a steering damper (I believe). Just wondering if I should consider refreshing any other parts to make sure I only have to do this alignment once.

 

[mvbighead]

Well, got all four installed. At first it seemed I wouldn't need the pickle fork, but the second end was "hidden" and inaccessible from a lot of angles. The only thing I had access to was the rubber seal. That stopped the job for the day and allowed me to cool off and go buy a pickle fork.

Started up again on Sunday and knocked out the next two pretty easily, but got to the 4th and final one, and that sucker was stuck. Holee chit was it stuck. Ended up heating up the old tie rod end with MAPP gas, and eventually got it to break free. If it wasn't for that part, and not having the pickle fork ahead of time, I could've been done in 2-3 hours.

Oh well, vehicle is at the local dealer for an alignment. It was also a major PITA to get the last tie rod end in (just as it was to get out) so I ended up not getting the final 3-4 twists in that I wanted. I figure the dealer should be able to get that sorted out during the alignment. Steering seemed quite a bit tighter, but the steering wheel was about 20-25 degrees off. Hopefully all goes well with the alignment.

 

[Throckmorton]

There aren't inners and outers, it's a solid axle. IIRC, the 2 knuckles are linked by a beam, and the right side knuckle has the steering link going to it. So you'd only have to change the two ball joints on each end of the steering link.

Here's a diagram (installed on a Cherokee) http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/brakes/xj_wjbrakes03/64.jpg

Edit: Oh you already did it

 

[mvbighead]

There aren't inners and outers, it's a solid axle. IIRC, the 2 knuckles are linked by a beam, and the right side knuckle has the steering link going to it. So you'd only have to change the two ball joints on each end of the steering link.

Here's a diagram (installed on a Cherokee) http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/brakes/xj_wjbrakes03/64.jpg

Edit: Oh you already did it

Yeah, that image is quite similar to what I had, though a bit different. In each of mine, there is a locking screw on the beam over each tie rod end. The tighter the bolt, the more stiff it was to twist out of there. Granted, on the last one, with the tightening screw fully removed, it was still tighter than hell in there.

The nuts looked similar to this:
http://matthewscott.smugmug.com/Cars/Jeep-Build-Thread/i-Xhvmjm4/0/M/jeephdsteering2-M.jpg

In any case, all 4 ends replaced for $115 plus some time. Not a bad deal. Most of the old rubber boots were cracked. No grease fittings were there, so I guess just age.

Dealer called, and they found other problems. Will hold off until I have a chance to get the car to my regular mechanic if they are items I can't fix. They mentioned shock problems, though I just recently had them replaced in the front. Perhaps the back? I dunno. I'll find out more when I pick it up.

In any case, alignment is done. Hopefully the steering is cleared up.

EDIT: Actually, this image is pretty much exactly what it looks like:

 

[5150MyU]

That shock absorber(steering dampner) in the above picture is what causes that death steering-it wears out in the center position and causes the steering wheel/front end to shimmy over bumps.
Also causing wear and tear on other stuff.

 

[5150MyU]

No need for an alignment when doing the dampner(shock).

 

[5150MyU]

There is an adjustment for the steering gear(box) but they recommend you do it on a bench(in a vice ) and not on the vehicle.

I would say that would be a little extreme, but that is hard telling not being there.

 

[mvbighead]

No need for an alignment when doing the dampner(shock).

I was sort of assuming that when I looked at it. I didn't buy that part to replace, but I suppose I could.

Honestly, the steering is much better now. It's still an older vehicle, so the steering isn't quite as tight as the 07 Impala, but that car vs. a truck, and a 7 year newer car at that.

Might consider the dampner when I get around to ordering other stuff.

Now to do a rear main seal and front piston seal (I believe). Paperwork is at home, but they gave me a laundry list of shit that should be fixed. Of course it'd be in excess of $1000.

 

[Throckmorton]

Check to make sure the RMS is actually leaking and that it's not just drippage from above

 

[mvbighead]

Check to make sure the RMS is actually leaking and that it's not just drippage from above

I guess I was a bit curious on their suggestion that there was a problem. I don't have an oil spots on the garage floor, despite the jeep sitting there for 2-3 days at a time. I don't see how it could be leaking if I go through 3k-4k mile intervals and the dipstick still registers full.

I dunno, at this point, I am a bit put off by their suggestion that there is a problem, but suppose maybe changing the oil to Mobil1 reconditioned the seals and now they no longer leak? I just don't see how it's leaking if there is no evidence on the ground.

Holding off for now, but if it looks to be a problem as of my next oil change, I may just take it to my mechanic and have him look it over. The dealer only got my business on the alignment because they were close and easy to get in and get out from. I'd prefer to give my mechanic the actual work (that I don't do) as he's taken good care of my cars in the past.

 

[Throckmorton]

I guess I was a bit curious on their suggestion that there was a problem. I don't have an oil spots on the garage floor, despite the jeep sitting there for 2-3 days at a time. I don't see how it could be leaking if I go through 3k-4k mile intervals and the dipstick still registers full.

I dunno, at this point, I am a bit put off by their suggestion that there is a problem, but suppose maybe changing the oil to Mobil1 reconditioned the seals and now they no longer leak? I just don't see how it's leaking if there is no evidence on the ground.

Holding off for now, but if it looks to be a problem as of my next oil change, I may just take it to my mechanic and have him look it over. The dealer only got my business on the alignment because they were close and easy to get in and get out from. I'd prefer to give my mechanic the actual work (that I don't do) as he's taken good care of my cars in the past.

Did you see any oil??

 

[5150MyU]

Do the dampner-less wear and tear on your new tie rods and other stuff.

If the oil (leak) is not reaching the ground-you have some (normal) seepage-not to worry about unless you are adament about a leak free engine.

 

[5150MyU]

To clarify:when it starts dripping you do the rear main seal and as Throckmorton stated above you need to verify that is what is the real cause of the leak.
Sure, when you see some seapage you have a leak, but that can go for 5 years and not get any worse.