Looks like Borderlands 2 is official!

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M0oG0oGaiPan

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
7,858
2
0
digitalgamedeals.com
How is a server list dumb? ... thought it was pretty typical if anything.
Let's see. Host has to start the game and then invite everyone into the game. And you can't be doing anything else because you might accidently close the pop up window. Even if it's friends only you have to be invited into the game by the host. So if you drop out he has to invite you again. There should be an easier way to drop in/drop out. They should have a "private game" option if you want to limit it to certain people or include an option to pw protect it.

It's definitely not as bad as Magicka which required the host to restart the game if someone were to disconnect/drop, but it could be better.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,494
4
81
One of my recent favorites. Very much looking forward to the 2nd one. Glad this thread popped up :D
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,645
186
106
Weapon management was terrible in the first game. What is the point of providing all these weapons when there is no easy way to sort or group them short of manually going through and trying to remember each guns specs?

I have the original but I won't touch Borderlands 2 unless they do something about weapons management.

-KeithP
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Weapon management was terrible in the first game. What is the point of providing all these weapons when there is no easy way to sort or group them short of manually going through and trying to remember each guns specs?

I have the original but I won't touch Borderlands 2 unless they do something about weapons management.

-KeithP
I never had a problem. Is this gun better than any of my current 4 guns? Yes? Replace one of my guns, sell the old one. No? Sell the new gun.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,148
133
106
Nice, it looks fun, I'll definitely keep an eye for it.

I like the improvements for the A.I. (mostly path-finding, still better than nothing), it was about time some developers somewhere looked at A.I. and realized "wow, guys, hey stop looking at the graphics for a second, I just recalled we have this thing called A.I. that can use some improvements too!".
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
18
81
I never had a problem. Is this gun better than any of my current 4 guns? Yes? Replace one of my guns, sell the old one. No? Sell the new gun.
It gets more complicated than that though. In some instances you have to use a new gun for a while to make certain that it isn't better because the stats don't tell the whole story. I've passed up many guns with seemingly better stats and that had much higher cash values than what I was carrying. When I tried to use them I found that they simply didn't kill stuff as quickly and/or easily as what I had. For instance, I've got a level 30 combustion hellfire that I absolutely cannot find anything better than.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
It gets more complicated than that though. In some instances you have to use a new gun for a while to make certain that it isn't better because the stats don't tell the whole story. I've passed up many guns with seemingly better stats and that had much higher cash values than what I was carrying. When I tried to use them I found that they simply didn't kill stuff as quickly and/or easily as what I had. For instance, I've got a level 30 combustion hellfire that I absolutely cannot find anything better than.
I've played some 330 hours of Borderlands and never had that problem. You've just got to be decisive.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
I just bought Borderlands, and looking forward to Borderlands 2.

The only true issue I have with Borderlands, and I hope they tweak it and probably won't, is just the amount of guns and crap laying everywhere. I spend more time looking at gun stats than playing. Everytime you kill something, 2 items drop from them or more... I almost get showered in ammo and guns as the guy drops over dead, then I have to sit there and pick the crap up (and most of the time my ammo is full and can't pick it up) or check out the stats.

They should really tone that aspect down a bit. Maybe if it was 1/4 the amount it current has, it would be much better. I've never purchased a gun from a vendor, never need to. I never really purchase ammo from the vendor, never need to. I never need to use my cash, unless I'm buying ammo upgrade slots. Money is pointless, vendors are nearly pointless.

Just cleaning that up would make the game much better IMHO...

Also if they would clean up the respawning in areas that would make things better. I still have the lvl 3 bandits spawning near firestone everytime I go there trying to kill me, and I'm in my 20's now.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
It gets more complicated than that though. In some instances you have to use a new gun for a while to make certain that it isn't better because the stats don't tell the whole story. I've passed up many guns with seemingly better stats and that had much higher cash values than what I was carrying. When I tried to use them I found that they simply didn't kill stuff as quickly and/or easily as what I had. For instance, I've got a level 30 combustion hellfire that I absolutely cannot find anything better than.
Part of that is because the Hellfire is unbelievably better than almost anything else in the game. That was always my go-to gun, the stacking fire DOT wiped out anything that wasn't fire resistant. Give one to the Siren, and it's game over.
 

Glitchny

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2002
5,679
1
0
I just bought Borderlands, and looking forward to Borderlands 2.

The only true issue I have with Borderlands, and I hope they tweak it and probably won't, is just the amount of guns and crap laying everywhere. I spend more time looking at gun stats than playing. Everytime you kill something, 2 items drop from them or more... I almost get showered in ammo and guns as the guy drops over dead, then I have to sit there and pick the crap up (and most of the time my ammo is full and can't pick it up) or check out the stats.

They should really tone that aspect down a bit. Maybe if it was 1/4 the amount it current has, it would be much better. I've never purchased a gun from a vendor, never need to. I never really purchase ammo from the vendor, never need to. I never need to use my cash, unless I'm buying ammo upgrade slots. Money is pointless, vendors are nearly pointless.

Just cleaning that up would make the game much better IMHO...

Also if they would clean up the respawning in areas that would make things better. I still have the lvl 3 bandits spawning near firestone everytime I go there trying to kill me, and I'm in my 20's now.
sorry to disappoint you but the loot is one of the biggest draws of this game. Also the 2nd game is going to have more guns.
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
Part of that is because the Hellfire is unbelievably better than almost anything else in the game. That was always my go-to gun, the stacking fire DOT wiped out anything that wasn't fire resistant. Give one to the Siren, and it's game over.
Yep, same with my Siren. It's ludicrous. Still, with good game design there shouldn't be guns that make everything else obsolete.

Man, I loved Borderlands, but hated trying to do co-op. It was fun with a friend, but pub games were hideous loot hunts. I found the SP to be VERY satisfying and I hope there are more concessions to SP gameplay this time around.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
108,783
26,109
146
Weapon management was terrible in the first game. What is the point of providing all these weapons when there is no easy way to sort or group them short of manually going through and trying to remember each guns specs?

I have the original but I won't touch Borderlands 2 unless they do something about weapons management.

-KeithP
page up and page down separates your inventory by type. There are 3 or 4 levels of organization. Makes it very easy to pick each type of weapon you want to keep and sell the rest.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
108,783
26,109
146
It gets more complicated than that though. In some instances you have to use a new gun for a while to make certain that it isn't better because the stats don't tell the whole story. I've passed up many guns with seemingly better stats and that had much higher cash values than what I was carrying. When I tried to use them I found that they simply didn't kill stuff as quickly and/or easily as what I had. For instance, I've got a level 30 combustion hellfire that I absolutely cannot find anything better than.
there are few guns better than a Hellfire, lvl nothwithstanding. I had a two shot revolver awarded in the early arena on my first playthrough, around level 8, that I kept through to the end of playthrough 2 on my Hunter.

not that unusual in Borderlands. I had already played through twice with the Siren, so I was used to scrutinizing what works and what doesn't for each gun. There's a very deep weapon system in this game that you can't see on the surface. I don't much understand it myself, I just figured out what works and what doesn't.

for SMG--you can fire a few rounds at a wall and check the spread. That's a quick way to tell if the damage stats are going to mean anything in reality. also--scopes tend to increase accuracy and/or decrease spread on SMG--if you fire from the scope. That's an important thing to remember.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
108,783
26,109
146
I just bought Borderlands, and looking forward to Borderlands 2.

The only true issue I have with Borderlands, and I hope they tweak it and probably won't, is just the amount of guns and crap laying everywhere. I spend more time looking at gun stats than playing. Everytime you kill something, 2 items drop from them or more... I almost get showered in ammo and guns as the guy drops over dead, then I have to sit there and pick the crap up (and most of the time my ammo is full and can't pick it up) or check out the stats.

They should really tone that aspect down a bit. Maybe if it was 1/4 the amount it current has, it would be much better. I've never purchased a gun from a vendor, never need to. I never really purchase ammo from the vendor, never need to. I never need to use my cash, unless I'm buying ammo upgrade slots. Money is pointless, vendors are nearly pointless.

Just cleaning that up would make the game much better IMHO...

Also if they would clean up the respawning in areas that would make things better. I still have the lvl 3 bandits spawning near firestone everytime I go there trying to kill me, and I'm in my 20's now.
this game is a loot system game--so that won't change. one thing you can do is download Willowtree and use it to tweak your game--increasing storage capacity is a must; though I'd recommend doing that until after PT1 or 2--it negates the use of the claptrap storage missions (xp is still useful, I guess).

also, while it's a design flaw, the game is best played in playthrough 2 and beyond. the levels only starts scaling after you play through the main game twice. ...or at least activate the final mission the second time.

One thing you can do to keep the challenge is to focus only on the main story mission, and do the random claptrap and crystal missions along the way in playthrough 1 & 2. You have to do that to avoid overlevelling.

I think that's the real problem with BL that needs to be addressed.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,366
891
126
It gets more complicated than that though. In some instances you have to use a new gun for a while to make certain that it isn't better because the stats don't tell the whole story. I've passed up many guns with seemingly better stats and that had much higher cash values than what I was carrying. When I tried to use them I found that they simply didn't kill stuff as quickly and/or easily as what I had. For instance, I've got a level 30 combustion hellfire that I absolutely cannot find anything better than.
I think what makes Borderlands "hard" for people just coming in is that they expect a very linear level of progression between guns which may be standard in FPS. The problem comes when you remember that Borderlands is a RP-FPS! Look at all the theorycrafting that goes into MMOs like WoW just to see what item works better and how exactly a proc may work. In some ways, Borderlands isn't much different than that.

For example, the Combustion Hellfire on paper doesn't look much better than a good epic quality incendiary SMG. The huge benefit that isn't apparent until you use it is that it has an incredibly fast tech pool regen. It also certainly doesn't help that most elemental weapons that you find are just complete junk with their incredibly small tech pools and low proc rates.

To me, the best elemental weapons are the Combustion Hellfire (SMG) and the Defiler (Revolver).

They should really tone that aspect down a bit. Maybe if it was 1/4 the amount it current has, it would be much better. I've never purchased a gun from a vendor, never need to. I never really purchase ammo from the vendor, never need to. I never need to use my cash, unless I'm buying ammo upgrade slots. Money is pointless, vendors are nearly pointless.
More often than not, most guns that you get are absolute junk in comparison to what you have. When you get higher in level, you'll literally just sell off all greens and whites. You may give blues a cursory glance, but it doesn't require more than that. I usually give epics and legendaries a good once over. Legendary weapons are usually pretty easy to tell what's good and what's not, because it tends to be those accessories that really make them shine. For example, a Combustion Hellfire with a 2-3x scope + 12 RoF... ohh yeah. :D

EDIT:

for SMG--you can fire a few rounds at a wall and check the spread. That's a quick way to tell if the damage stats are going to mean anything in reality. also--scopes tend to increase accuracy and/or decrease spread on SMG--if you fire from the scope. That's an important thing to remember.
If spread mattered that much, an Anarchy would be an awful SMG. ;)
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
To me, the best elemental weapons are the Combustion Hellfire (SMG) and the Defiler (Revolver).
Heh, that was my combo. A Hellfire most of the time, and switch to the Defiler when I run across an armored or fire resistant enemy. I had a low level Defiler that let me tear through the armored guys in Knoxx easily.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
I usually give epics and legendaries a good once over. Legendary weapons are usually pretty easy to tell what's good and what's not, because it tends to be those accessories that really make them shine. For example, a Combustion Hellfire with a 2-3x scope + 12 RoF... ohh yeah. :D
Not sure which ones are Legendary or Epic at this point. I have retrieved a few purple items, but most of the time they are junk. Like Sledges shotgun. I have a blue which is much more effective than that purple. I did like my elephant gun though that is purple. A decent quick firing sniper rifle with good accuracy but no scope. Is there another thing better than purple? I also liked the SMG I had that shot spirals into the air, but it was horribly weak, but I kept it because it looked cool firing. ;)
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
> Not sure which ones are Legendary or Epic at this point.

Orange color.

Also remember that weapons have levels -- a level 3 purple may be much worse than a level 15 green. And I'd rather have a level 10 SMG with a scope than a level 15 one without scope.


--- leveling --

One problem with the auto-levelling that kicks in after Knox is then it's impossible to wait awhile and go into something that you're failing at with a higher level to make it easy.

For example, for some reason killing uber-Skags Moe & Marley gave me a lot of trouble on my first playthrough so I gave up for awhile then came back after gaining a couple of levels.

It would be nice if there was some kind of hybrid where mission difficulty is set when you get the mission, but that area is then locked to that level until you complete it. So if you go in to a level 20 mission at level 22 there are no level 22 Superbad Flamey-Skags attacking you in that area, all of the enemies stay at 20 + X so if the boss was supposed to be 20 + 2, it stays 22 not jumping to 24 to match your level.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,366
891
126
Not sure which ones are Legendary or Epic at this point. I have retrieved a few purple items, but most of the time they are junk. Like Sledges shotgun. I have a blue which is much more effective than that purple. I did like my elephant gun though that is purple. A decent quick firing sniper rifle with good accuracy but no scope. Is there another thing better than purple? I also liked the SMG I had that shot spirals into the air, but it was horribly weak, but I kept it because it looked cool firing. ;)
Quality looks like this:

White -> Green -> Blue -> Purple -> Yellow -> Orange -> Pearlescent

Yellow and Orange items are both considered legendary items. Pearlescent items were actually not meant to drop originally, but Gearbox ended up adding them in as sort of an uber reward.

Epic won't always mean awesome though. Sledge's Shotgun is very particular as it's not a bad item if you're playing Roland (Soldier) as his shotgun spread reduction talent can make the item a bit more deadly, but for most characters... it's only fun for the knock-back effect. Usually if I find a weapon with flavor text, which means it has some effect that may not be spelled out... I'll look up the weapon on the Borderland's wiki ( I believe it's at borderlands.wikia.com ).

You can also learn a lot of the weird quirks about Borderlands from the wiki page as well. Sort of like how zooming will reduce the spread on your weapon. That can be ridiculously advantageous for a weapon like a Double/Desert Anarchy, which has about a 30% accuracy by default, but fires a ridiculous number of bullets.

For example, for some reason killing uber-Skags Moe & Marley gave me a lot of trouble on my first playthrough so I gave up for awhile then came back after gaining a couple of levels.
Moe and Marley are an example of where the game needs a bit of tuning. :\ It's almost necessary to pull one at a time, which is easier said than done. You can also cheese Moe by getting on top of a building in the camp to the north and just shooting him. I've fought them both at once in the open though... ugh, it's pretty awful.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
108,783
26,109
146
EDIT:



If spread mattered that much, an Anarchy would be an awful SMG. ;)
true. I should have mentioned that it matters if one prefers to sit far back and plink at people, or play up close and wail at their heads.

Anarchies are fantastic, but you have to be practically in your target's face to get a use out of them.

it could also be that someone has an Anarchy, but sees little value to it because they prefer to sit far back, so never realize how devastating those weapons are. scoped Anarchies are great--but will still shoot all over the fucking place compared to other scoped SMG.


....also, much depends on the character, as well. If for some odd reason you aren't playing a Siren, you would likely never realize how amazing SMGs are, especially up close.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
108,783
26,109
146
Heh, that was my combo. A Hellfire most of the time, and switch to the Defiler when I run across an armored or fire resistant enemy. I had a low level Defiler that let me tear through the armored guys in Knoxx easily.
yeah, Defiler's are great. probably my second favorite weapon.

I also really love the Firehawk--epic machine pistol, fire--I have a scoped one that is a blast to use. they don't proc as well as Hellfire or Defiler, iirc, but I generally like all machine pistols, so it's fun.

for me: SMG > revolver~machine pistol > sniper > ...meh.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,366
891
126
true. I should have mentioned that it matters if one prefers to sit far back and plink at people, or play up close and wail at their heads.

Anarchies are fantastic, but you have to be practically in your target's face to get a use out of them.
I think what makes the Siren great is an overall nice combination of talents that really allow you to use either style of play. Being able to slow your enemies, regen shields and increase your speed just makes her a power house and that's not including her get out of jail free card.

But what am I saying... you know all of this. ;)

I personally use either style of play. If I have my Anarchy out, I'll fight in the enemy's face, but if I have my Hellfire out, I'll usually fight from a distance.

it could also be that someone has an Anarchy, but sees little value to it because they prefer to sit far back, so never realize how devastating those weapons are. scoped Anarchies are great--but will still shoot all over the fucking place compared to other scoped SMG.
That's why I prefer a low zoom scope on an Anarchy. There's no point to a 3-4x scope, because you're still going to be shooting from relatively close up. However, the reduction in spread from zooming is too beneficial to ignore, and iron sights just don't seem to work as well.
 

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