Looking to upgrade the Home Server

[bob4432]

Current Home Server is skt939 w/ a Opteron165 & a x1800xt gpu w/ 5misc hdds (2.5 & 3.5). Needless to say, power useage is about 100W according to the UPS. Running a EA380W PSU. Also heat output is an issue as I do live in PHX, AZ and summer is here.

Want to do a cheap upgrade but reliable upgrade that will pay for itself just from the the power savings over the time frame of a couple years.

It feeds A/V to 4 other computers, a couple android phones, acts as the print server and also ftp/ftps and http/https servers as well as holding the acronis backups. Condo is hardwired GbE.

As you can see, not much power is needed but I have been out of the loop for some time. AMD has quite a few sockets as well as Intel, so please, somebody school me on setting up a cheap, reliable Home Server that will have 2-4GB DDR2-3 (found a 2GB of DDR2 in closet - never opened), a boot drive (80GB - found a brand new unit in the closet) and then a raid 1 1-2TB array that will hold all the A/V and acronis backups for the other machines. Will also be the machine that will update google contacts/schedule for the phones. Will be going w/ onboard raid as I do not have the $$ for a 'real' raid card w/ BBU.

The only use the machine gets when somebody is actually sitting there is to do updates (seriously, machine will not even see youtube or webpages except upon initial setup and updates). Will be running either Win7 or Server 2008R2. Machine is on 24/7 x Xyears so passive cooling w/ exception of CPU would be nice (have an extra Zalman 7000 series HSF for the cpu, if a mount is available).

Would like to go something common size so I don't have to model/build a case, so ATX, mini-ATX as I would like to re-use the same case - good airflow.

Not a fanboy, going for best bang for buck for intended use.

Thanks in advance.
Bob

 

[Zap]

Two things to think about.

1) You can probably get by with an AMD C or E series dual core on a mATX or ITX motherboard, or even an Atom. Probably any will work as far as the CPU, but the trick is to find one that has the number of SATA ports you need. Also, not sure any of them will have RAID capabilities. These are essentially netbooks, with so low power draw that your Earthwatts PSU almost becomes inefficient.

This board is one example that has 5x SATA 6Gbps ports, eSATA, USB 3.0 so it is well outfitted to be a nice little file server board. The E-450 is a 1.65GHz dual core, and it has integrated graphics. TDP of the part is 18W.

This board might be even better. It loses eSATA and USB 3.0, but gains an extra internal SATA from not using it for eSATA (now six internal). It also costs 2/3 the price. What it loses is in performance, being a 1GHz dual core. However, it has a turbo mode which can briefly clock up to 1.33GHz. Also, it is a 9W part, so even less power used.

2) You can also do a couple things to make your existing server use less power.

I would say the biggest offender would be the Radeon X1800XT GPU. You aren't gaming on it, so ditch that thing ASAP! I did a seb search and (if true) the TDP of that card is 113W. Those old cards also don't go into power savings down-clock modes like modern cards. If the motherboard has integrated graphics, then use it. If not, then buy a cheap graphics card. By "cheap" I mean sign up for Newegg Shellshocker emails. I'd say at least once a month they offer a $10 graphics card that really sucks, such as a GeForce 210, which AFAIK is around 31W TDP. Short of a Shellshocker special, this one is $15 after rebate.

After that, look at the CPU and RAM clocks/voltages. You can often undervolt at stock clocks, or even underclock + undervolt. That will reduce power usage and heat output. Also make sure Cool & Quiet is enabled and functioning. This allows the CPU to idle at 800MHz or so. When heat output goes down, if you have a lot of case fans you may be able to reduce the number. Fans draw power, which creates heat in the PSU. A fan can be responsible for consuming several watts.

Finally, what capacity "5 misc" drives are you running? Notebook drives can take 2-4W each, desktop 5400RPM drives can take 4-8W and desktop 7200RPM drives can take 6-15W (range depends on age, older drives tend to consume more). You mentioned 1-2GB of RAID space. I've seen WD Red 3TB drives for around $135. Those drives are really nice for file serving duties. They use 1TB platters, which maximizes throughput even though they are 5400RPM. They also do not auto park heads, so server won't feel "laggy" when someone goes to use it after it has been idle for a while (unless OS is set to sleep the drives). You also don't necessarily need to run RAID1, because (it needs to be said) RAID is not a backup. If this were a crucial business server, then uptime will be important. Otherwise, use a single drive, and an external drive (or two) for periodic backups. This way your constant power draw would be even lower!

 

[jhu]

I would also suggest the AMD C-, or E- series chips. You can easily find a mini-itx with C-, or E- based CPU for < $100 on Amazon. These things should idle at no more than 20W, and probably less (just for the motherboard+cpu though). I'm thinking about doing the same thing since my file server is a Phenom II x6 1090T, and all it does is sit there idle most of the time.

 

[Ken g6]

This is probably too slow for you, and it doesn't run Windows, but it fits your other requirements. It could be faster if one drive was plugged into each USB port.

 

[bob4432]

thanks for the info, i meant to add i am moving to 1x80GB hdd, maybe use a laptop hdd for the os hdd and then 1-2(if go raid1) 1-2TB hdds and that is all, so a total of 2-3 hdds and i forgot, an optical drive.

good point on the 'raid is not a backup', so will need a external usb drive which i think would be better than raid anyway.

the 1800xt will be going to go but i am still decently high even w/ 'cool 'n quiet' w/ the opeteron165, so i figured a complete replacement is in order.

fan wise, a 120mm unit, the cpu fan and psu fan, but i am liking that setup that is all passive - i worry about the fan bearings going out...

any other place than newegg that has high quality, high efficiency psus? seems they only have 2

thanks for getting me on track

 

[bob4432]

thanks, i have looked into those arm based setups just out of curiosity and they do seem a bit underpowered for my needs as i would still like to rdp into the machine if necessary. appreciate the suggestion though.

bob

I would also suggest the AMD C-, or E- series chips. You can easily find a mini-itx with C-, or E- based CPU for < $100 on Amazon. These things should idle at no more than 20W, and probably less (just for the motherboard+cpu though). I'm thinking about doing the same thing since my file server is a Phenom II x6 1090T, and all it does is sit there idle most of the time.

 

[Vesku]

Several Intel Celeron 847 Mini ITX boards have popped up:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138368

This one has 3 SATA2 + 1 SATA3


The Brazos boards have more SATA3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157247

 

[Headfoot]

Two things to think about.

1) You can probably get by with an AMD C or E series dual core on a mATX or ITX motherboard, or even an Atom. Probably any will work as far as the CPU, but the trick is to find one that has the number of SATA ports you need. Also, not sure any of them will have RAID capabilities. These are essentially netbooks, with so low power draw that your Earthwatts PSU almost becomes inefficient.

This board is one example that has 5x SATA 6Gbps ports, eSATA, USB 3.0 so it is well outfitted to be a nice little file server board. The E-450 is a 1.65GHz dual core, and it has integrated graphics. TDP of the part is 18W.

This board might be even better. It loses eSATA and USB 3.0, but gains an extra internal SATA from not using it for eSATA (now six internal). It also costs 2/3 the price. What it loses is in performance, being a 1GHz dual core. However, it has a turbo mode which can briefly clock up to 1.33GHz. Also, it is a 9W part, so even less power used.

2) You can also do a couple things to make your existing server use less power.

I would say the biggest offender would be the Radeon X1800XT GPU. You aren't gaming on it, so ditch that thing ASAP! I did a seb search and (if true) the TDP of that card is 113W. Those old cards also don't go into power savings down-clock modes like modern cards. If the motherboard has integrated graphics, then use it. If not, then buy a cheap graphics card. By "cheap" I mean sign up for Newegg Shellshocker emails. I'd say at least once a month they offer a $10 graphics card that really sucks, such as a GeForce 210, which AFAIK is around 31W TDP. Short of a Shellshocker special, this one is $15 after rebate.

After that, look at the CPU and RAM clocks/voltages. You can often undervolt at stock clocks, or even underclock + undervolt. That will reduce power usage and heat output. Also make sure Cool & Quiet is enabled and functioning. This allows the CPU to idle at 800MHz or so. When heat output goes down, if you have a lot of case fans you may be able to reduce the number. Fans draw power, which creates heat in the PSU. A fan can be responsible for consuming several watts.

Finally, what capacity "5 misc" drives are you running? Notebook drives can take 2-4W each, desktop 5400RPM drives can take 4-8W and desktop 7200RPM drives can take 6-15W (range depends on age, older drives tend to consume more). You mentioned 1-2GB of RAID space. I've seen WD Red 3TB drives for around $135. Those drives are really nice for file serving duties. They use 1TB platters, which maximizes throughput even though they are 5400RPM. They also do not auto park heads, so server won't feel "laggy" when someone goes to use it after it has been idle for a while (unless OS is set to sleep the drives). You also don't necessarily need to run RAID1, because (it needs to be said) RAID is not a backup. If this were a crucial business server, then uptime will be important. Otherwise, use a single drive, and an external drive (or two) for periodic backups. This way your constant power draw would be even lower!

This is a really great post. I agree and second everything in it.

 

[bob4432]

finally got around to removing the x1800xt and since it was just idling all the time, took 40W+ out - machine idling @ ~90W, now debating on spending the $$ on going to just 2 hdds, both 2.5". already have 1 in there and it has been perfect. contemplating removing the opteron165 and putting in a 3000venice until i build a new, loooow power unit as i have the other cpu sitting on my desk.

 

[Carson Dyle]

You have to balance cost vs. performance vs. low power and cool/quiet. You don't give any hard $ numbers, but it sounds like you want a low cost upgrade using some existing parts and that you need less than 2TB of storage.

If low power/cool/quiet were higher priorities than cost, I'd go with a small SSD for the OS. Say a 60-64GB. You can find a used one for $45-60. If I needed 2TB and was looking for low power, I'd use one of the 2.5" 2TB drives now available. Add another if you want to do RAID, but I'd simply opt for an external USB backup, kept powered off, then do system backups once every 2-4 weeks, or as you see fit. If cost is critical, go with 3.5" drives, and then you have the option of 3 or 4TB on a single drive.

Most Atom platforms are limited by number of drives they support, with many motherboards only handling two. An inexpensive AMD CPU with onboard video will be more than enough for your needs.

With a low enough power draw you could throw away the 380W power supply and go with a small picoPSU. You'll have a CPU fan and then perhaps one case fan. Spin down the HDD(s) while idle and you'll have a system with nothing but a fan or two spinning slowly when it's not in use.

If that were all the system I was building, I wouldn't want it in anything _other_ than a mini-ITX form factor. Two to four 2.5" drives, no video card, a picoPSU. Easily fits mini-ITX.

 

[bob4432]

thanks for the info on the picoPSU - very interesting. 1TB is all i need for backup so i will probably pick up a couple 1TB 2.5" hdds - 1 for internal, 1 for external enclosure like you suggest, already have a 2.5" ~120GB or so for the OS install.

going to drop in a venice 3000 in it and see where it falls this afternoon w/ the current 380W psu.

will see what the difference is between the venice and the opteron165 vs any noticeable performance....

 

[Icecold]

If your board supports undervolting the processor it will help with the power usage and heat production. You may be able to underclock and undervolt the Opteron 165 and have it use less power than the 3000 while also being faster. I had an Opteron 165 and it overclocked pretty high on stock voltage, so I would imagine you could undervolt it quite a bit without even dropping the clock speed. If it were me I would probably strive to drop the clock speed to about 1.5GHz and go for the lowest voltage it needs to be stable.

Before messing with it too much, though, I would open the case and check the motherboard for bulging capacitors. Most socket 939 gear is getting to that age where there's a semi decent chance the motherboard has capacitors ready to fail. Or they may all be fine, but it would be unfortunate to spend a lot of time tweaking it to find out the motherboard is about to fail when a quick visual inspection takes a few minutes.

 

[bob4432]

thanks for the suggestions, and yep, all caps are g2g

If your board supports undervolting the processor it will help with the power usage and heat production. You may be able to underclock and undervolt the Opteron 165 and have it use less power than the 3000 while also being faster. I had an Opteron 165 and it overclocked pretty high on stock voltage, so I would imagine you could undervolt it quite a bit without even dropping the clock speed. If it were me I would probably strive to drop the clock speed to about 1.5GHz and go for the lowest voltage it needs to be stable.

Before messing with it too much, though, I would open the case and check the motherboard for bulging capacitors. Most socket 939 gear is getting to that age where there's a semi decent chance the motherboard has capacitors ready to fail. Or they may all be fine, but it would be unfortunate to spend a lot of time tweaking it to find out the motherboard is about to fail when a quick visual inspection takes a few minutes.

 

[bob4432]

well, after putting everything on 2 2.5" hdds, removing the gpu, I am at 55-60W, which is good for me. turns out the psu is not an ea380, it is an OLD antec 480W blue which I am sure is causing more waste. probably look for a deal on a quality 200-300W unit here in a bit. maybe something will come around w/ memorial day coming - off to check sales

thanks all

 

[Binky]

Underclock and undervolt it as far as it will go. Damn it, Zap already said this. Bah!

With the low wattage you're already pulling, I don't see a short payback period on any possible "upgrade."

 

[bob4432]

there has been no upgrade, just different stuff i already had laying around the home office, so i am out $0, just time to move data & hdds around. i have dropped at least 40-45W and a lot of heat, which means less of using the A/C which is where the real cost savings are.

it is on 24/7/years so reliability is of #1 concern. may put the opteron165 back in just for tests as i plan on putting win7, 2008r2 or 2012 server on it - not sure which one to go with....

of course, appreciate the suggestion

Underclock and undervolt it as far as it will go. Damn it, Zap already said this. Bah!

With the low wattage you're already pulling, I don't see a short payback period on any possible "upgrade."

 

[smitbret]

If the PSU is still chugging along I wouldn't worry about it. It'll take a lot of efficiencyu to cover the cost of a good, quality PSU.