Looking to buy CUV. Do I need AWD?

[digitaldurandal]

Currently looking at the Rogue. I also drove the new sportage but it drove like crap - although it looks very nice IMO. The Rav4 is the sensible buy. But I think it is kind of ugly.

Looking to buy used - would like to stay under 20k OTD. I currently have a 07 civic with 31k miles that I purchased almost exactly 2 years ago for 15.5 +TTL; the dealer will give me 12.5. Making my total investment for two years in the car about 5k. Not the best return I know, but also not the worst.

I do not need a large CUV or SUV. I want to get decent gas mileage and for the ride to feel "car like." Honestly I barely need a CUV but the times I would like one it is irritating that we have a 350z (wife's) and the civic. I have no children with no plans for any and most of my driving is for work. I drive about 10k miles a year.

I would like to tow a personal watercraft, be able to load medium sized things into my vehicle easily - like my lawn mower to bring to another property, or doors which I need to replace.

My wife, brother, and I are also getting into camping and while I know all of our gear would most likely fit into the civic I think a CUV would be far more convenient for it - especially if we bring some niceties (read: cooler and grill) and do not go all out primal/ultralight. Kayaking is also a possibility. I have seen a civic with a kayak on top - unsure if I want to try it though.

My two questions are should I go ahead with the purchase and waste 6.5 to 7.5k? If I do should I get the AWD? I live in Fl which is flat, but to some of the creeks and camp grounds there are dirt trails - also there is a chance that in the next three years I will end up in CO.

 

[CurseTheSky]

AWD will be a waste unless the trails / dirt roads you take flood constantly or turn to mud often enough.

In regards to hauling stuff, fitting a lawn mower / doors / lots of gear in a small SUV / CUV doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me, unless the rear seats fold flat (maybe they do, I have no idea). I know my fiancée's sister's Ford Escape is pretty useless for hauling much of anything - I could fit pretty much any of the same stuff in my Fusion with the fold down rear seat, except perhaps height wise.

Don't expect mileage to be very good either. It'll be heavier and less aerodynamic than a car, and the drive train will most likely be setup to take a bit more abuse. Even a 4 cylinder SUV / CUV usually gets the fuel economy of a V6 sedan at best.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Just depends on the terrain. Usually, if the roads/trails are dry and not too inclined, AWD is not needed. Esp if it's just gravel/loose dirt. Wet grass can be real hard to get through, but I think those camping trails should be just fine without AWD. I've driven our 2wd Tahoe through snow and mud no problem.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Seats do fold flat MPG will cost about 200 bucks more a year than the civic. I can also get a trailer and haul with the cuv. The civic is rated 1k pounds but I am unsure about hauling with it - i have heard the automatic transmission needs extra cooling for any towing.

 

[zerocool84]

Hell your Civic would do fine in dirt. Most people don't need AWD/4WD. Unless you're really going to be doing anything hardcore in Florida, 2WD is just fine.

 

[StageLeft]

Prolly don't need it but it will help with resale a bit.

Damn you paid $15k for a civic and two yeasr later a dealer will take it for $12,500? I will never understand the ridiculous resale on those. I bet you could private it for close to what you paid.

BTW have you considered that with a hitch for your civic you could get one of those platforms that goes on the back to carry stuff (http://www.discountramps.com/vhms2.jpg), plus a roof rack. You could get a small utility trailer, too. About the only thing that's iffy is towing water craft but probably you could tow a single sea doo.

The civic is rated 1k pounds but I am unsure about hauling with it - i have heard the automatic transmission needs extra cooling for any towing.

If so that's easy. Less than $100 for a transmission cooler and a regular mechanic put it on for a couple hundred bucks tops, IMO.

Utility trailer $300 from harbor freight, you could put some walls on it for a little more and carry all the crap you need.

Roof racks seem to have fallen out of favor but before everybody had a full SUV or minivan they worked pretty darn well.

 

[Jumpem]

Depends on where you live. We get feet of snow at a time here, so I wouldn't pass on it.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Have you thought about an ever so slightly used (like 2008~2009) Subaru Forester or Outback? Sounds like they may fit the bill a bit better than a CUV (more car like ride and gas mileage while still being able to tow/hold the stuff you need).

 

[Bignate603]

Have you thought about an ever so slightly used (like 2008~2009) Subaru Forester or Outback? Sounds like they may fit the bill a bit better than a CUV (more car like ride and gas mileage while still being able to tow/hold the stuff you need).

I was going to say this. A subaru wagon pretty much fits the bill for everything you're asking. If you decide that you don't need AWD there are plenty of other wagons out there.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Indeed, and as far as tow rating is concerned, an outback actually has twice the rated capacity of a rav4

 

[dug777]

Indeed, and as far as tow rating is concerned, an outback actually has twice the rated capacity of a rav4

Looking at the spec sheets here in Aus at least that's not true:

Both are rated at 750kg with no trailer brakes (our legal limit here), then the Rav4 is either 1500kg or 1900kg (the latter being the V6) with brakes while the Outback is 1500kg in base spec, up to 1800kg.

http://www.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicles/pdf/Savers/RAV4+Saver+0410_LR.pdf

http://www.subaru.com.au/models/outback/2.5i/wagon/specifications/all/

http://www.subaru.com.au/models/outback/3.6R_premium/wagon/specifications/all/

I'm not wedded to either (it really doesn't sound like tow-rating is going to decide this one for the Op ), and it may be different in the US of course

 

[kornphlake]

I've done a lot of camping, a bit of kayaking, hauled dimensional lumber and cut sheets of plywood, mountain bikes, just about everything you mention except towing, in a FWD Saturn sedan. I have only been stuck twice and it was due to snow, which isn't likely something you'll encounter in FL. I have a Thule roof rack and no shame tying just about anything to it, the first time we went camping with an infant we looked like the beverly hillbillies over a 300 mile road trip, I don't remember what all we had on the roof rack, but I remember being surprised it was all still there when we arrived at our destination. Unless you plan on serious offroad activity like rock crawling or mud bogging I'd say you don't need AWD. The only reason I'd own a vehicle with AWD is if I lived in an area that had a lot of snow.

 

[soulcougher73]

Honda Element would fit your needs. I personally like them, but im in the minority i think.

 

[StageLeft]

2010 Rav4 has 1500 lb tow rating. Unless you get the tow package with the V6 (basically all V6's have the tow package thrown in). Gives you a bigger alternator, bigger tranny cooler and one other thing I think and brings tow rating up to 3500.

BTW the Rav4 V6, though MSRPing at about $27k with AWD, also does mid 6s 0-60 and smacks the hot sh*t out of all the other vehicles it competes with in its class. You can even get it with a small third row.

 

[Throckmorton]

In Colorado you are going to want a real 4x4, so don't get too invested in whatever you buy for Florida!

 

[krunchykrome]

I think it's definitely worth it. I have a 2008 Honda CRV w/AWD.

A specific example; last year, we had a bad snow storm here in MD. I drove 20 miles to pickup my wife at work in the CRV. There is hill with a mild incline as you leave the parking lot. As we were leaving, making our way up the hill, there was another CRV (same model) but without AWD in front of us. She got stuck and could not move forward. We ended up getting out and pushing her up the hill. Afterwards, I got back in my car and drove up the hill with no problem.

There have been other times when it definitely came in handy. Can you do without it...sure. But I'd rather have it.

As for cargo room, it has plenty. The seats fold down easily, and there's plenty of space (comes in handy for our many camping trips).

I average 23mpg, although it should be noted that I speed a bit. I've gotten around 28mpg before on a full tank.

It currently has around 50k miles on it, and I haven't had any issues with it so far. It's perfect. It's far from "fun" to drive, but it's definitely one of the more logical mini suv's you can purchase.

 

[StageLeft]

I think it's definitely worth it. I have a 2008 Honda CRV w/AWD.

A specific example; last year, we had a bad snow storm here in MD. I drove 20 miles to pickup my wife at work in the CRV. There is hill with a mild incline as you leave the parking lot. As we were leaving, making our way up the hill, there was another CRV (same model) but without AWD in front of us. She got stuck and could not move forward. We ended up getting out and pushing her up the hill. Afterwards, I got back in my car and drove up the hill with no problem.

There have been other times when it definitely came in handy. Can you do without it...sure. But I'd rather have it.

As for cargo room, it has plenty. The seats fold down easily, and there's plenty of space (comes in handy for our many camping trips).

I average 23mpg, although it should be noted that I speed a bit. I've gotten around 28mpg before on a full tank.

It currently has around 50k miles on it, and I haven't had any issues with it so far. It's perfect. It's far from "fun" to drive, but it's definitely one of the more logical mini suv's you can purchase.

I'm in NY and we get more snow and it is nice to have, but still most don't have it. However, a couple years ago in my Max with all-seasons that were not particularly new I got a green light and could not damn well move. A nice fellow got out to push me up. Either that day or not long after I was on another hill to get home and the damn car would not get up it despite me spending half a mile building up as much speed as possible (very hard with no traction). I hit the hill for all I was worth but came to a stand still shortly before the summit. Could not get up it. I backed down the hill, backed all the way up the road and went home a flatter route. Kind of sucked crap, especially when a guy in a 4X4 stopped next to me (just after I'd been unable to crest it), asked if I needed help and when I said no he shot up the hill

Still, the rest of the time it's just added weight, worse mileage, more expensive repair if you have to replace tranny or the rear end.

 

[Bignate603]

I'm in NY and we get more snow and it is nice to have, but still most don't have it. However, a couple years ago in my Max with all-seasons that were not particularly new I got a green light and could not damn well move. A nice fellow got out to push me up. Either that day or not long after I was on another hill to get home and the damn car would not get up it despite me spending half a mile building up as much speed as possible (very hard with no traction). I hit the hill for all I was worth but came to a stand still shortly before the summit. Could not get up it. I backed down the hill, backed all the way up the road and went home a flatter route. Kind of sucked crap, especially when a guy in a 4X4 stopped next to me (just after I'd been unable to crest it), asked if I needed help and when I said no he shot up the hill

Still, the rest of the time it's just added weight, worse mileage, more expensive repair if you have to replace tranny or the rear end.

It all depends where you live, my family lives in upstate NY out in the boonies. If you get stuck it might be a LONG time before another car comes by and cell phone service can be spotty between towns. For them, having at least one car with AWD is a must.

 

[StageLeft]

It all depends where you live, my family lives in upstate NY out in the boonies. If you get stuck it might be a LONG time before another car comes by and cell phone service can be spotty between towns. For them, having at least one car with AWD is a must.

If I lived in Oswego, on the east coast of Lake Ontario I'd have that, too, they get pummeled with snow and the highway clearing there sucks!

 

[v8envy]

In Colorado you are going to want a real 4x4, so don't get too invested in whatever you buy for Florida!

Oh come on. Not everything here is an extreme Jeep trail. I can get plenty of very interesting, scenic places in a regular vehicle. I once saw an 80s subaru on one of the more challenging trails (he asked us to tow him over a 20 foot or so stretch of deep mud, then kept going).

Anyhoo, that said: our Patriot (which is a 4x4, not AWD) does well on all but extreme trails, has enough cargo room, and a roof rack for bikes/kayaks. It's basically the same form factor as the previous generation Subaru Forester. Gas mileage is mid to upper 20s in a city/highway mix. I really don't understand all the hate for the platform. Zero luxury, but who cares in an inexpensive commuter?

 

[Throckmorton]

AFAIK, the Patriot is either 2WD or full time AWD (which is really FWD until the front wheels slip).

I think they're pretty cool but there's a significant issue-- the lower ball joints wear out really fast, and the whole lower control arm has to be replaced. That's fine if it's under warranty I guess....

 

[v8envy]

Nope, there is no center differential. It's normally FWD, and you can engage the coupling to the rear wheels turning it into four wheel drive via switch (or have the car electronics do it automatically for you).

It's based on the Dodge Caliber, which was available in full time AWD trim for a while. Not the same system in the Patriot, though.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Will you be going thru mud? AWD will help in that situation. I think a Subaru Outback would be a good option.

 

[Bignate603]

Unless you plan on serious offroad activity like rock crawling or mud bogging I'd say you don't need AWD. The only reason I'd own a vehicle with AWD is if I lived in an area that had a lot of snow.

A CUV with AWD rock crawling or mud bogging? lol. Anything serious and you'll destroy your vehicle, they aren't made for that. A CUV with AWD is for muddy, rutted roads, snow, or other limited traction situation. You'll kill your car if you try to do anything seriously harsh. From what I've seen Subarus are significantly better than most for dealing with truly tough conditions but there are still advantages to real SUVs with higher ground clearance.

 

[v8envy]

Once again, not all CUVs are created equal. Here, look at this:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipment/reviews/patriot/index.htm

Pretty much backs up my experience. This is a capable little off roader in stock form. You're not going to do a 5/5 trail suited only for highly modified special purpose offroaders, but it'll go anywhere any other stock vehicle can get to.