looking for suggestions on a possible salary negotiation...

[purbeast0]

UPDATE BELOW

so here's the deal. i'm 100% happy at my current position and have no real desire to leave right now.

however my wife and i have talked about possibly heading out west and moving to san diego, so i found a company that has an opening for a position out there that does work in my line of work, and they also have a team local to me working on the project.

before i interviewed with them, i flat out told them my situation - im 100% happy and was interested in possibly moving out west, and was just seeing what is out there and what i COULD get if i looked. also before the interview, i told them my salary expectations that are $40k more than i currently make, but i hadn't seen the benefits yet. they told me that was on the higher end and may be a tough number to meet, but for the right candidate they could maybe make it work.

after the interview, which went flawless and the feedback i got was "if you wanted a job in the MD office we would hire you in a heartbeat" so now they are asking for my salary requirements as well as when i could plan on moving out there.

after seeing the benefits, i did math, and my current benefits are much better. the math says it's just under $20k worth of benefits that i have at my current job that i won't get there.

so here is my question - the realistic number i would take that would REALLY make me consider moving out there, is $60k more than i'm currently making. but i don't want to start with the number i would realistically take and say $60k more. so i'm wondering what i SHOULD go at them with. also, keep in mind, they did say the $40k more was already on the higher end and may be tough to meet.

also, if i say $70k or $80k more than i currently make, how can i justify it? i was going to justify the $20k extra due to benefits, because i explicitly told them the initial salary was prior to knowing benefits.

so yeah, lookin for some suggestions. i have the email written already, asking for $70k more than what i currently make ($40k + the $20k in benefits + $10k for wiggle room) but i was wondering if i should reach for the stars even more. i mean realistically, if they tell me no, it's not like i am going to be unhappy at my current position, so i kind of have nothing to lose i feel like.

UPDATE - 8/21/2015

so quick update...

after emailing them back asking for the $70k more than i currently make, i didn't hear anything for 2 weeks, so i wrote another email asking for some updates. after another week of nothing, i contacted the local recruiter for the company to see if she could find what was going on. within 6 hours i had a reply from the original recruiter.

he replied saying that they would love to make me an offer, but at the asking price, i would be by far the highest paid engineer in the company. he even said at my original salary (before knowing benefits) that is $40k more than i make now, i would be the highest paid engineer, but he was wondering if i had any wiggle room because they would love to make me an offer.

he then went on to flat out tell me if i looked into smaller companies with less overhead, i could probably get what i was asking for.

so this entire experience with this recruiter, i've had a lot of red flags and things that have put me off of this company. him flat out telling me i would be the highest paid engineer is one of them. why the hell would i care, and what is he trying to accomplish by telling me that?

additionally, flat out telling me that i could get paid more elsewhere? yeah that doesn't make much sense at all.

oh and i also asked if they had any relocation assistance, and he completely didn't answer me or mention anything about that in the reply.

but i replied back telling him that yes i have some wiggle room, but at the salary he was mentioning, i don't think that is enough to make me pick up and move across the country at the current time, but that there was wiggle room.

this was tuesday, and i have yet to hear back from him.

the fact that everything is taking so damn long to hear back from this guy is really off putting as well. it just completely rubs me the wrong way and is unprofessional IMO. so at this point i'm not really expecting it to go anywhere, but i'm still waiting to see what he says back.

but that day, after i kind of turned down an unnoficial offer that is $40k more than i make now, i couldn't stop thinking about it and was like damn, i actually kind of turned down a job making a lot more money. i did the math and after paying all the premiums and stuff, i would have around $1500 more a month takehome, which is $18k/yr extra takehome. so yeah, that is a lot more. but cost of living obviously is much more out west ,and i'm just not sure if that much more is enough for me to make the jump right now.

 

[Printer Bandit]

20% more than you currently make is reasonable. anything more than that, then you must think you're a hot shot superstar.

 

[purbeast0]

20% more than you currently make is reasonable. anything more than that, then you must think you're a hot shot superstar.

well they did tell me that out there the salaries are about 10% higher than they would be in MD, so that would be more than 20% more than i currently make. but on top of that, i also don't want to have $20k more of expenses out of the new salary due to benefits being weaker.

 

[theeedude]

Your issue is you are interviewing at only one company, and not letting the market determine your compensation.
You don't need to "justify" anything if you have multiple offers, you could just let the companies compete and take the best offer.

 

[gorcorps]

You're overthinking this

I'm going through the same thing. I just got an offer that's a decent amount lower than I wanted. I told them that, I told them the highest offer that I've recently received and still rejected, and told them what I expected to make in order to make the move. The HR rep I talked to said they'll speak to the managers and get back to me.

That's literally all you need to do. Tell them what you expect, and if they can't pay that then they can't afford you. Seems pretty simple to me, especially if you're happy at your current position.

 

[purbeast0]

You're overthinking this

I'm going through the same thing. I just got an offer that's a decent amount lower than I wanted. I told them that, I told them the highest offer that I've recently received and still rejected, and told them what I expected to make in order to make the move. The HR rep I talked to said they'll speak to the managers and get back to me.

That's literally all you need to do. Tell them what you expect, and if they can't pay that then they can't afford you. Seems pretty simple to me, especially if you're happy at your current position.

that's not really the same thing at all.

i haven't got any offer from them. they need my salary requirements for them to decide if they will proceed with an offer, and i'm just wondering exactly how much over the initial $40k more than i currently make that i told them already, because that number was told with them knowing i hadn't seen benefits yet. and i don't want to flat out give them my bottom number, which right now is $60k more than i currently make (the initial $40k i asked + the $20k difference in benefits).

but you are right, it is pretty simple in the grand scheme of things, and i probably am overthinking it lol.

 

[NutBucket]

I don't know where you live now but have you considered the difference in cost of living?

 

[purbeast0]

I don't know where you live now but have you considered the difference in cost of living?

i'm in MD in the DMV area so it's not cheap here either. the cost of living is definitely more out there, but i think that is part of the reason they also said they typically give salaries 10% more than they would give in MD.

 

[nk215]

There is no chance that they will offer you $40k over what you are making - they already hint you on this. What kind of benefit difference is 20k? You can't include vacation time in calculating the benefit.

 

[purbeast0]

There is no chance that they will offer you $40k over what you are making - they already hint you on this. What kind of benefit difference is 20k? You can't include vacation time in calculating the benefit.

they have no clue what i currently make so yes there is a chance they will offer me $40k+ what i make. for all the know, what i asked for could be $10k more than i currently make. they didn't "hint" at not meeting it, just that it's high and they could do it for the right candidate. they just said it is a fairly aggressive number, but with my years experience and higher market salaries, there is potential to meet it.

and yes, i am calculating vacation into the benefits. why wouldn't i it's part of the benefits?

i'm calculating it by the "hourly rate" that my salary is times 8 hours times 8 days. also i have free health, dental, vision insurance too so i'm calculating all of that, as well as the 401k differences because they don't match as much as my current company does.

i already asked if they can budge on PTO and they said they can't match the 27 days that i currently have.

i'm going to just tell them the salary of $70k more than i currently make and see if they come back down a bit which realistically i would take.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, wtf? Vacation time is most definitely a benefit!

 

[alpineranger]

they need my salary requirements for them to decide if they will proceed with an offer...

In my experience this is typically either completely untrue (a tired old trick), or if it is true, this is a company/situation that is not worth pursuing.

But for a 70k raise (even considering the location change) to be a legitimate option, you are probably either grossly underpaid right now, or you earn so much that a 70k raise would represent a reasonable percentage of a raise. In the former case they don't need to know, and in the latter case they would already know.

 

[Zor Prime]

I went with a different slant with this job than ones in the past.

I was inquired the standard procedural questioning of what are you getting paid now and what's your requirement?

I said how much I was getting paid and asked, "what's the best you can do for me?"

I got a higher salary than I imagined. I 'feel' I got the best I asked for, at least it looks like it on paper.

This is probably very unorthodox but hey I didn't have to screw around with numbers, I only asked for the best they could do.

 

[purbeast0]

In my experience this is typically either completely untrue (a tired old trick), or if it is true, this is a company/situation that is not worth pursuing.

im not even sure what you mean by this. i've never been hired or talked to a job that had not a clue what kind of salary i would expect to take a job. are you saying you have talked to a company and interviewed with them before and then got an offer from them without ever discussing salary prior?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

In my experience this is typically either completely untrue (a tired old trick), or if it is true, this is a company/situation that is not worth pursuing.

I don't agree. Asking for a salary range that you expect is entirely reasonable (ideally, most companies would just post the salary range but they like to play games). Asking your CURRENT salary, however, *IS* an old trick. I'm thinking that's probably what you were thinking but perhaps misphrased it.

But for a 70k raise (even considering the location change) to be a legitimate option, you are probably either grossly underpaid right now, or you earn so much that a 70k raise would represent a reasonable percentage of a raise. In the former case they don't need to know, and in the latter case they would already know.

I haven't done an extensive search so I may be missing something, but after a quick check of Sr. Software Engineer salaries in San Diego (which is the title I am assuming the OP would look for), I don't believe that a $70K jump is reasonable given what the OP likely makes now. As the interviewers said, even $40K will be tough to meet. Not sure why, knowing this, the OP would ask for more. More power to him if he can, however.

I went with a different slant with this job than ones in the past.

I was inquired the standard procedural questioning of what are you getting paid now and what's your requirement?

I said how much I was getting paid and asked, "what's the best you can do for me?"

I got a higher salary than I imagined. I 'feel' I got the best I asked for, at least it looks like it on paper.

This is probably very unorthodox but hey I didn't have to screw around with numbers, I only asked for the best they could do.

I never tell companies my current salary. It is none of their business, is a sign of lazy interviewing/market research, and contrary to their assertions, there is no valid reason for them to know at all - they're hoping they can lowball you. It can only hurt you by divulging it. If they insist on it, walk away.

 

[cabri]

For a given skill set, a company will know within +/- $10-20K what that salaries are within a given market area.

Especially, where they have a office in your local area.
Tossing numbers out; I expect that you are between $100-$125K. (Unless management)
The same slot in CA would be $125-$150K

Benefits depending on how they are worded and calculated. You will lose your seniority benefits; a new company normally will not make them up.

Unless you are an executive, there is no real wiggle room on benefits - the most you have is salary itself and relo expenses (1 time check).

Your cost of living will be higher in CA (taxes, fuel and housing). Some that live in CA will claim that the climate and geography is compensation for such.

 

[purbeast0]

I don't agree. Asking for a salary range that you expect is entirely reasonable (ideally, most companies would just post the salary range but they like to play games). Asking your CURRENT salary, however, *IS* an old trick. I'm thinking that's probably what you were thinking but perhaps misphrased it.



I haven't done an extensive search so I may be missing something, but after a quick check of Sr. Software Engineer salaries in San Diego (which is the title I am assuming the OP would look for), I don't believe that a $70K jump is reasonable given what the OP likely makes now. As the interviewers said, even $40K will be tough to meet. Not sure why, knowing this, the OP would ask for more. More power to him if he can, however.



I never tell companies my current salary. It is none of their business, is a sign of lazy interviewing/market research, and contrary to their assertions, there is no valid reason for them to know at all - they're hoping they can lowball you. It can only hurt you by divulging it. If they insist on it, walk away.

while i'm currently doing the duties of a senior software engineer, this past year i asked for a larger raise and i got it, and with that came a new title of senior software architect. while it is pretty much just a title right now, i do also believe that the reason they promoted me to that was because they can bill the customer more for me.

according to salary.com, the higher end of the payscale in SD between sr. software engineer and sr. software architect is $30k. and also keep in mind, this is just the 90% value, and also salary.com isnt' the "be all end all" for what people make.

also, they never said "it would be tough to meet", they said it was an aggressive number, but with my years experience and higher market salaries, there is potential to meet the number.

and as mentioned, the reason i am now asking for MORE is because i explicitly told them that was the number i'd look for barring benefits were comparable, but they really aren't, so that is where the $20k extra comes in to make up for the benefits. and then i tacked $10k on top of that as well because i don't want to simply start off with my bottom dollar.

i'm also being a little "whatever" about this and reaching for the stars because i really have absolutely nothing to lose.

earlier on in my career too, i was put in a situation where the ball was in my court when my current company lost a contract, and the new company coming on board wanted to hire me, and i reached for the stars big time, and they came back with $5k less than i asked, and i ended up getting a $29k raise for staying on the same project. had i just caved and took their initial offer, which was exactly what the old company was paying me + extra for the benefits difference, right now my salary would be nowhere near what it is today.

 

[purbeast0]

For a given skill set, a company will know within +/- $10-20K what that salaries are within a given market area.

Especially, where they have a office in your local area.
Tossing numbers out; I expect that you are between $100-$125K. (Unless management)
The same slot in CA would be $125-$150K

Benefits depending on how they are worded and calculated. You will lose your seniority benefits; a new company normally will not make them up.

Unless you are an executive, there is no real wiggle room on benefits - the most you have is salary itself and relo expenses (1 time check).

Your cost of living will be higher in CA (taxes, fuel and housing). Some that live in CA will claim that the climate and geography is compensation for such.

i'm already higher than your assumption, and no i'm not in management (nor do i really want to be).

and i have free health, dental, vision insurance, 27 days of PTO, gym reimbursement, company puts 8% into my 401k regardless of what i contribute, and company contributes $110/month to my HSA. so these are the types of benefits that add up to nearly $20k that i wouldn't be receiving at the new company.

 

[mrjminer]

Just tell them what you want to make. If they can make it happen, they will.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

while i'm currently doing the duties of a senior software engineer, this past year i asked for a larger raise and i got it, and with that came a new title of senior software architect. while it is pretty much just a title right now, i do also believe that the reason they promoted me to that was because they can bill the customer more for me.

according to salary.com, the higher end of the payscale in SD between sr. software engineer and sr. software architect is $30k. and also keep in mind, this is just the 90% value, and also salary.com isnt' the "be all end all" for what people make.

also, they never said "it would be tough to meet", they said it was an aggressive number, but with my years experience and higher market salaries, there is potential to meet the number.

Sorry, but you did say that in your OP:

also before the interview, i told them my salary expectations that are $40k more than i currently make, but i hadn't seen the benefits yet. they told me that was on the higher end and may be a tough number to meet, but for the right candidate they could maybe make it work.

There are a lot of "may be" and "maybes" there.

and as mentioned, the reason i am now asking for MORE is because i explicitly told them that was the number i'd look for barring benefits were comparable, but they really aren't, so that is where the $20k extra comes in to make up for the benefits. and then i tacked $10k on top of that as well because i don't want to simply start off with my bottom dollar.

i'm also being a little "whatever" about this and reaching for the stars because i really have absolutely nothing to lose.

earlier on in my career too, i was put in a situation where the ball was in my court when my current company lost a contract, and the new company coming on board wanted to hire me, and i reached for the stars big time, and they came back with $5k less than i asked, and i ended up getting a $29k raise for staying on the same project. had i just caved and took their initial offer, which was exactly what the old company was paying me + extra for the benefits difference, right now my salary would be nowhere near what it is today.

I say go for it - the worst they can say is no, just don't be disappointed because they very likely will say no. However, if you REALLY want to move out there, you may need to make a few sacrifices (like vacation time, only a 10-20% raise, etc). Personally, I'd inquire about working remotely for your current company and if they agree, move. You'd still have a ton of vacation that way and they may give you a raise to account for the difference in COL.

 

[purbeast0]

Sorry, but you did say that in your OP:





I say go for it - the worst they can say is no, just don't be disappointed because they very likely WILL say no. However, if you REALLY want to move out there, you may need to make a few sacrifices (like vacation time, only a 10-20% raise, etc). Personally, I'd inquire about working remotely for your current company and if they agree, move. You'd still have a ton of vacation that way.

yeah i did say that in the OP lol, i did later on clear it up too, but i didn't go back and edit it.

the thing is, i was thinking more along the lines of moving out there in like 2-3 years possibly, but not so soon. i did mention something to my company about it as well and they have made exceptions for people doing that too. one guy lived in colorado working remotely for 2 years while his wife went to school out there.

right now i was just kind of testing the waters. one night i was just searching on dice.com or some other site and saw a description that matched perfectly to what i'm looking for, so that is why i was like 'let me just see how far i can take this and what comes out of it' and was also straight up with the company about my situation.

but you are right, if they say no, it literally is nothing gained, nothing lost at this point. i will be in exactly the same position i would have been had i never tried this out, which is a great spot.

i sent the email last night with the $70k more number so i'll be curious to see what the response is.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

yeah i did say that in the OP lol, i did later on clear it up too, but i didn't go back and edit it.

the thing is, i was thinking more along the lines of moving out there in like 2-3 years possibly, but not so soon. i did mention something to my company about it as well and they have made exceptions for people doing that too. one guy lived in colorado working remotely for 2 years while his wife went to school out there.

right now i was just kind of testing the waters. one night i was just searching on dice.com or some other site and saw a description that matched perfectly to what i'm looking for, so that is why i was like 'let me just see how far i can take this and what comes out of it' and was also straight up with the company about my situation.

but you are right, if they say no, it literally is nothing gained, nothing lost at this point. i will be in exactly the same position i would have been had i never tried this out, which is a great spot.

i sent the email last night with the $70k more number so i'll be curious to see what the response is.

Have you asked your company about the possibility of working remotely? That might give you the best of both worlds.

EDIT: NM, missed it in the post above.

 

[edro]

The biggest question isn't compensation... it's whether or not you want to move to San Diego.
Having a job lined up and possibly having them pay relocation is huge.

San Diego sounds infinitely better than MD is every conceivable way.
I would move out there ASAP if you have family out there.

 

[purbeast0]

The biggest question isn't compensation... it's whether or not you want to move to San Diego.
Having a job lined up and possibly having them pay relocation is huge.

San Diego sounds infinitely better than MD is every conceivable way.
I would move out there ASAP if you have family out there.

we have no family out there, and all of our family is in the MD/VA area.

family is literally THE ONLY reason we aren't out there already, and the only thing holding us back. that is why if i DO move out there, it would have to be for something that would really make me be a moron to turn it down.

we have friends who used to live in VA and moved out there 6 years ago. so they know what it is like to live around here and out there. and yes, they love everything about it out there. and you are right, there really isn't much out there i could think of that isn't better than being around here.

i really think the "we have all 4 seasons here" thing that we always say around here is just our own excuse we try to tell ourselves to make us feel better about the shitty weather we have for 80% of the year.

EDIT:

also, i am not sure if they have relocation assistance, but i did ask that in my email i sent. they did say that in their first email we exchanged, that they do offer up to a $15k signing bonus, so i would bet that would qualify as the relocation assistance instead of some "official" relocation assistance.

 

[Aharami]

my friend just moved back to the east coast after 5 yrs in the bay area. He got tired of high cost of living over there...even though he was making significantly more (i think 2x more than in nyc area). But I think his biggest reason for moving back was not having any close friends or family there. But then again he is a single guy. Not your scenario.

Good luck...hope you get it. Even if you move out there for a bit...it might be worth it.