Looking for parts to build son a PC

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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I know this would fit better in the FS group but posting here is a lot nicer and I can ask questions and you guys will answer with kindness in regards to the reality that I no longer am on the cutting edge of PC's.

My son Peter is going to be 16 soon and is really showing a lot of progress in computer science.
He took intro to Comp Science last year and video game design and this year is in AP Computer Science. He's doing very well and has been asked by the teachers if he would tutor the 'slower' kids.

He asked if he could have a computer in his room and I gave him my old desktop machine, the best thing about that one is it comes with a pretty nice 27" LED monitor.
The not so nice part is it's a Prescott based motherboard, only recognizes 3.25GB memory no matter what you put in it and has AGP graphics, so no nice new video cards can pull it out of very low framerate land when he wants to play games.
He can work on it, but he would like to use it to play on as well.

So - I'm considering options.
There are some AGP video cards out there that might just do the trick, like the AMD (ATI) 4670.

The Prescott cpu in it runs great all day long at 4.0 Ghz with hyperthreading and I think the memory would not be a bottleneck if he had a faster video card, his games do start and run - but slowly.

I don't want to spend a lot of money, so the forklift upgrade of motherboard, cpu, memory, video card and PSU would be my last option.

Hit me with ideas please.

This system was my home DC rig for many many years, it would be nice to see it continue for a couple more.
 

Icecold

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2004
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Would the motherboard support a Pentium D? Or better yet a Core2Duo?

I think you may actually be able to get out cheaper upgrading the motherboard to one with PCI express rather than trying to find a high end AGP card, though sometimes the 3850 AGP goes for a decent price in the FS/FT forum.

Do you have any spare parts? Maybe somebody here has extra hardware(I know I have lots of hardware around) that they could give you on the cheap? If you could give the motherboard model, processor model, amount of ram you have, case, etc. I can probably give a better recommendation.
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
24,125
508
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Just FYI the 3.25 GB RAM limit is due to using a 32bit version of windows.

PCIE mbrd might be a good idea, old grx cards would be cheaper I bet. Maybe you could re-use your RAM & CPU by getting a latter S775 mbrd?
You could then upgrade the CPU to a Q6600 a little latter, they're dirt cheap now & still useful in recent-ish games, at least when overclocked anyway. Even over here my Q6600 is only worth ~£25, selling it soon as I've just upgraded my rig to a Q9550.
 
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QuietDad

Senior member
Dec 18, 2005
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I have a junkyard of parts here and could get a Dell Dimension 4600 upgraded to a 3.0gb dual core working with 2gb of ram and a 80gb Hard, DVD/CDRW drive running with no effort with all original parts. I has the original AGP card in it, not sure what it is, but can chaeck if ya want. Still has the Windows XP COA and Dell service tag on it. I could also preload XP on it using the COA. Make me an offer if your interested, don't forget shipping. It's taking up floor space here at the moment and I'm not looking for alot.

I also have a slew of Socket 775 motherboards and CPU's of various sizes and powers including PCI-e boards and might be able to throw one in it. Dell has weird back panel openings but I have a Dremel and Oxy-Acetylene torch and could make them fit or just send the pieces.
 
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Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
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Oxy-Acetylene torch? Lol I use one to cut bits off cars occasionally but never for PCs! ;)
 

QuietDad

Senior member
Dec 18, 2005
523
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Spent 13 years as a USMC wrecker operator/mechanic (12 where in the reserves...). You become good at using the torch for anything. Can't tell you how many times I just need a case and I had a Dell case and non dell mother board or vice versa and things just don't fit. I upgrade PC's on the side and part of the cost I charge is any part I replace, I get the old one. In sheer boredom, I'll go through the pile every once in a while and separate it all into little piles grouped together as PC's to assemble and inventory what I need to make complete machines.
I have a personal rule of NOTHING DELL, but it's been broken too often to say it's a real thing.
Like I said, I have a slew of parts and I have the 4600 sitting out and available. Went to upgrade it to a quad core and by the time I was done, I had an Optiplex instead and just took the Dimension and added it to the pile.
I don't know the shipping costs overseas or the annoyance of it, but shipping plus $50 and it's yours.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
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Funny the reply about "32 bit". The cpu is a 64 bit and it's running 64 bit Windows 8.
Windows reports seeing 4GB ram but when I start it the BIOS says 3328 MB (3.25GB) memory. There may be a bios update for the board, the bios seems to have the 4GB (32bit) thing going on.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
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I believe I'm just going to buy a new video card and slap it in there, beats reinstalling Windows 8 and Office and all that stuff, not to mention all his applications.

I'm looking at the "HIS ATI HD 4670".
If that solves the problem then it's all good.
 

QuietDad

Senior member
Dec 18, 2005
523
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91
Your memory problem my be an internal video card on the motherboard that's enabled and using system memory.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
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One drawback is the card will only do DirectX 10.1

On the upside he's only got DX 9 now. 10 is better than 9 at least.
Messed around with it, BIOS was a couple versions behind so I upgraded it to the most current version.
Found that there is no onboard video so that theory is out.
AGP reserved memory was set at 256MB and I found that by reducing that I could get additional system memory in Windows. Of course reducing it too far causes trouble so I set it at 64MB and got nearly 3.5GB system memory available.
The ASUS website said this is normal for this motherboard, there actually is this specific question in the FAQ.
Now just get the 4670 in there and all will be well. (hopefully)
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,552
10,171
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Not to be a downer, but are there even AGP drivers for 4000-series video cards in Windows 8? There are people whom have had a hard enough time getting PCI-E 4850 cards running in Windows 8.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
16
81
Not to be a downer, but are there even AGP drivers for 4000-series video cards in Windows 8? There are people whom have had a hard enough time getting PCI-E 4850 cards running in Windows 8.

Good question, I will look into it.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
16
81
Thanks, but I believe its maxed out now with 4 sticks of pc3200 DDR.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
16
81
The card is compatible with Win 8, but I will have to research which driver is best.
 

Fullmetal Chocobo

Moderator<br>Distributed Computing
Moderator
May 13, 2003
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I have extra hard drives and memory I know for sure. I will PM a list when I get home today.
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
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81
The HIS Ice-Q 4670 worked like a charm.
It was I admit harder to get running in Windows 8 than my good old Geforce 7800 GS was - man that installed like a dream compared to the Radeon drivers, but I finally found out how to start Windows 8 in "Test Mode" so I could install legacy AGP drivers and get the card working properly. What a pain!
Peter wanted this one game to work and it just had too slow framerate with the Geforce card, and the 4670 solved that completely.
Now he can work AND play on the machine, and like they say "And is better than Or"...
Thanks for all your generous offers, but 'I got this' :D
 

Wiz

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
6,459
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Finally got the latest legacy driver installed, turned on some features that make better use of the GPU. Stuff working great, could still be better.
Even though Windows 8 64bit installed perfectly it says it can't update to 8.1 because the CPU doesn't have certain features.
I found an E8500 CPU for $25 that I'm going to install, this is a Dual core cpu with 6MB cache so I believe it will have a little more power than the Prescott and should run cooler. people on Toms Hardware say it OC's to 4Ghz without any trouble, and that's what the Prescott is running now so ideally I'll be able to update Windows to 8.1 and it will also make everything else just a little faster. Can't go wrong with only spending $25.
I will need to find some thermal compound though, I'm sure whatever I might have left has turned into something bad by now.
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
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508
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Win 8? That's where you went wrong! ;)

I only switched from XP to 7 earlier this year, lol.
I hate 8 & it's weird icons & no start menu :p

The E8500 will be massively faster than the P4! :), IIRC Anandtechs review of the 1st Core 2 (E6x00 models) showed them about 50% faster than a P4 at the same clock rate! Look here for more info http://www.anandtech.com/show/2045/12

The Penryn core E8x00s were about 5-10% faster than the original 4MB Core 2s (faster architecture & more cache). And yea they are great overclockers with 4 GHz being common :), though you need a very tweakable mbrd to do that.