Looking for Partitioning advice on new build

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
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I'm building a new rig that will be primarily for Flight simulation with an auxiliary use as a media PC. I'd like to have dual boot to Win 7 and Win 10. with primary use over the next few years as 7 and just sort of play around with 10...

The machine will have 2 SSDs (one 240 GB, one 500GB) and one large 4 TB HDD.

Looking for how to set things up for easy backup and best speed. At this point, I'm not sure I'm ready to try any RAID arrays or anything...

Flight Sims have massive memory requirements for scenery files, etc...

Thinking OS and all Programs for Win 7 on 500GB SSD, Duplicate type Programs on Win 10 on the smaller 240 GB SSD, and then use the large HDD for Media files.

Would making additional partitions on the SSDs be advantageous for anything or just add unnecessary complexity?
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
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Thinking OS and all Programs for Win 7 on 500GB SSD, Duplicate type Programs on Win 10 on the smaller 240 GB SSD, and then use the large HDD for Media files.
I'll do the same (one partition on each drive). You may want to leave some unpartitioned space on SSDs (for over-provisioning).
 

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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The only advantage (for me) of additional partitions on the primary SSD is to keep the OS partition clean and small for easy imaging. Fast recovery from failure is very nice when the S hits the F. You do backup regularly, right?

Excluding media files, 500GB is a lot of space, so I would probably think about making the OS drive some smaller portion of this, like maybe 100-150gb. The rest of the drive would be one partition. Put games and other very large installations on the SSD D drive, and "normal" stuff like office programs in the typical program files locations.
 

ignatzatsonic

Senior member
Nov 20, 2006
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Use as few partitions as possible for OS and apps. If you start getting cute with partitioning, you'll likely guess wrong about anticipated growth rates and would also complicate your backup procedures for no good reason.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
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The only advantage (for me) of additional partitions on the primary SSD is to keep the OS partition clean and small for easy imaging. Fast recovery from failure is very nice when the S hits the F. You do backup regularly, right?

Excluding media files, 500GB is a lot of space, so I would probably think about making the OS drive some smaller portion of this, like maybe 100-150gb. The rest of the drive would be one partition. Put games and other very large installations on the SSD D drive, and "normal" stuff like office programs in the typical program files locations.

+1, life it so much easier when you can just wipe the OS partition and not have to worry about everything else.

150GB OS partition is more than enough for win 7/8/10. If you add office, or something like that, I would bump it to 200GB OS partition, and the rest for data.
 

XavierMace

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Apr 20, 2013
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+1, life it so much easier when you can just wipe the OS partition and not have to worry about everything else.

150GB OS partition is more than enough for win 7/8/10. If you add office, or something like that, I would bump it to 200GB OS partition, and the rest for data.

He's got a separate drive for data, what exactly do you think he's accomplishing by putting the OS on it's own partition?
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
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Yes, he has a 4TB HDD for data. For a PC with only a SSD, I'll make a separate data partition. But not in this case.

Even if the OS install is so broken that is no longer working, he has the other one (it will be a dual boot configuration) or a Live USB option to move any files he may need from that partition if he wants to format it for a OS reinstall.
 

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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The only downside of a second partition is another drive letter. Does anybody really care that they have two "data" drives, a D drive on an SSD and an E drive on a platter drive?

As I said above, I like my OS drive to be as slim as possible, but this is personal preference. Things that are large and can be easily installed or moved to somewhere other than the C drive are not put on my OS partition. This obviously includes things like games, which I strongly prefer to be on my SSD, but I sure as hell don't want 100GB of games in my "OS" image. I also put my "my documents" folder on the D drive. My Steam installation is also on that D drive. All data on the D and E drives should have their own backup system, but the OS should be imaged regularly. Preferably, the OS is imaged on a schedule to another system without human intervention.

A slim OS drive is more likely to get backed up regularly!
 

CiPHER

Senior member
Mar 5, 2015
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If he has a HDD, he can quickly backup the entire SSD contents to the HDD. So a separate partition is not really needed, though it is personal preference of course.

The reason NOT to use multiple partitions on SSDs is so you avoid fragmentation of free space. If you have C, D and E partitions on your SSD, you might have limited free space on D but still enough on E. Generally you should not fill your partition to more than 80% so it is best to have only one partition where all free space is available as one pool.

Using multiple partitions on SSDs will not impact performance to any degree, though on HDDs it can have a drastic performance impact. Short stroking can improve performance, but forcing long seeks by using multiple partitions can drastically lower performance. So partitioning is more critical for HDDs than it is for SSDs.

Leaving some space unpartitioned on the SSD - known as overprovisioning - can improve performance by reducing performance degradation over time. It also improves lifespan, though for consumers this is no big deal. Only when using the SSD for special purposes such as SRT/L2ARC caching or heavy VM usage, overprovisioning a consumer-grade drive is very useful.
 

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
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Thanks to all for your thoughts! It was very educational. Lot's of questions follow...

Was surprised to see recommendations for Win 7 OS partition as high as 150GB. How come? Looking around online, it looks like a normal install is around 20GB and no more than 55GB max. 150 GB for Win 7 64bit seems rather large. What is all the extra space for?

I love the idea of a "slim OS partition" for easy imaging and backup. I really need to learn how to effectively do those things... Can anyone recommend some good programs for that?

It sounds like having the OS and programs on separate SSD partitions will not slow my programs down at all...

Someone mentioned using the 4TB platter as the backup disk for the 500GB Win 7 64 OS/programs disk (whether partitioned or not). That is a good idea and what is planned.

Overprovisioning: After doing some more research this appears to be already provided by Samsung, Crucial, etc. and setting aside more space does nothing additional...

So, here it is all laid out:

500 GB SSD - Win 7 64bit
c: Partition for OS 150GB
d: Partition for MS Office and all flight sims

240 GB SSD - Win 10 64bit
e: Partition for OS 150GB
f: Partition for MS Office and all flight sims 90GB (small, so really just for experimenting).

4TB HDD - Win 7 or 10 64bit - does it matter? Assumption is regardless of OS, my other drives with either Win 7 or 10 will still be able to see the 4TB drive, yes?
g: 4TB for dumping data files (movies, music, backups, etc...)

Okay, this is probably a very basic question... but does a drive that just stores a bunch of files need an OS, or can it just be formatted?
 
Last edited:

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
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Okay, this is probably a very basic question... but does a drive that just stores a bunch of files need an OS, or can it just be formatted?
You make a partition and then you format that partition. No need to install an OS.
 

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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A normal Win7 64-bit install is much larger than 20GB. I'm on my work system now with only standard office stuff, and it's at 115GB. The space used also grows over time and trying to shrink it artificially can be disastrous. Resizing partitions is also a PITA, and possibly disastrous as well. Best bet (especially with 500gb to play with) is to give it MUCH more space than you think it will need. I wouldn't go below 150, and I might go up to 200.

For your 240gb SSD, you should probably keep that as one partition. It's too small for two partitions. You may be able to use the same game installation(s) for both OS's, as installed on the 500GB drive. Why would you need office installed twice?

4TB drive - data is data. Just format it and you're ready to dump things onto it. Both OS installs should be set see it as the same drive letter, to keep things consistent.

Backing up to a drive installed in the same system should only be a temporary thing. In a perfect world, you would have a backup off-site, or at least on another disconnected drive. Lightning, a power surge, or even a dropped cup of coffee can fry all drives in the system simultaneously. There's nothing wrong with an internal backup, but it should never be your only backup!
 

ignatzatsonic

Senior member
Nov 20, 2006
351
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Was surprised to see recommendations for Win 7 OS partition as high as 150GB. How come? Looking around online, it looks like a normal install is around 20GB and no more than 55GB max. 150 GB for Win 7 64bit seems rather large. What is all the extra space for?

I love the idea of a "slim OS partition" for easy imaging and backup. I really need to learn how to effectively do those things... Can anyone recommend some good programs for that?

Macrium Reflect is a common and good recommendation for imaging OS and application partitions. There's a free version and a paid version. Most people do fine with the free version.

You are the best judge of how much space you need for the Win 7 partition, based on your own examination of your own occupied space history over time. Make your judgement based on that.

I don't game or use Flight Sim applications. My Win 7 partition and it's 60 applications has never occupied more than 40 GB---after more than 4 years and all Windows Updates. It's growing at about 2 or 3 GB per year. I've got a 128 GB SSD for Windows and all applications and have no space issues at all.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
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If he has a HDD, he can quickly backup the entire SSD contents to the HDD. So a separate partition is not really needed, though it is personal preference of course.
It is much faster to blow away your OS partition in the event of corruption, or you just want to do a clean install.
If you have both data + OS, then you can't just do a clean install.

The reason NOT to use multiple partitions on SSDs is so you avoid fragmentation of free space. If you have C, D and E partitions on your SSD, you might have limited free space on D but still enough on E. Generally you should not fill your partition to more than 80% so it is best to have only one partition where all free space is available as one pool.
And if this is the case, you can always just move/shrink/grow partitions as needed.
So if D is running out of space, you can use some of E's space on D's. (assuming you have space available)
This is nothing new, and has been done for a very long time.
It depends on the circumstance, it isn't always the best to have one big pool, it varies on how you are using the partitions.
I find it much easier, and faster to be able to backup individual partitions when I want, instead of doing the whole thing at once.
Leaving some space unpartitioned on the SSD - known as overprovisioning - can improve performance by reducing performance degradation over time. It also improves lifespan, though for consumers this is no big deal. Only when using the SSD for special purposes such as SRT/L2ARC caching or heavy VM usage, overprovisioning a consumer-grade drive is very useful.
Yeah, not really a issue for most all consumers, all SSDs are already overprovisioned, and setting aside some more space will only benefit a very small number of very heavy users that write a ton of data to the SSD.
 

CiPHER

Senior member
Mar 5, 2015
226
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It is much faster to blow away your OS partition in the event of corruption, or you just want to do a clean install.
If you have both data + OS, then you can't just do a clean install.
Well doesn't your C-drive store your profile as well? Documents, videos, pictures, firefox profile, etc. You want that backed up before 'blowing away' the system partition. Storing this data on HDD defeats the purpose of the SSD. Though you can use junctions (symlinks) to store the profile on another partition of the SSD i guess.

It boils down to personal preference. But many people do not re-install windows every week, so waiting perhaps 10 minutes before the SSD is backed up to HDD is not a big deal i guess?

And if this is the case, you can always just move/shrink/grow partitions as needed.
Grow & shrink is just fine, but moving partitions means you need to rewrite all that data and causes write cycles. Besides that, it can be a hassle for users.

I find it much easier, and faster to be able to backup individual partitions when I want, instead of doing the whole thing at once.
Perfectly valid argument - but as you indicate this is pretty much a personal preference. Generally one big C-partition is just more convenient for many and doesn't come with much disadvantages. I think this generally is the best advice, besides power users who have their personal preferences; like yourself.

Yeah, not really a issue for most all consumers, all SSDs are already overprovisioned, and setting aside some more space will only benefit a very small number of very heavy users that write a ton of data to the SSD.
It varies per SSD; the built-in spare space is often included in the 6,7% difference in GB versus GiB. This space is shared with mapping tables, spare pages and the RAID5 parity bitcorrection (1:128). So the amount of spare space is very low. Overprovisioning will certainly help if there is no TRIM or the workload requires more erase blocks being available - such as when using the SSD for caching (L2ARC for ZFS or Intel SRT caching). Also when using the SSD for virtual machine images you really want to overprovision.

For normal consumer usage which has TRIM available, i agree that overprovisioning is not necessary. I've got a chart which shows the influence of spare space on write amplification. It starts with 0.1 (10%) spare space but that is already way above the default of modern SSDs:

full.jpg


Static data is data that doesn't get rewritten so it does not cause erase block fragmentation. Dynamic data gets rewritten/updated often and thus is more demanding for the SSD.

Typical consumer/desktop usage may only be 30% dynamic data or even less; more demanding tasks like L2ARC/SRT caching are like 90% and thus require more overprovisioning to prevent performance degradation and reduced lifespan due to increased write amplification - it will burn more quickly through its write cycles.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
Well doesn't your C-drive store your profile as well? Documents, videos, pictures, firefox profile, etc. You want that backed up before 'blowing away' the system partition. Storing this data on HDD defeats the purpose of the SSD. Though you can use junctions (symlinks) to store the profile on another partition of the SSD i guess.
Nope, they are moved to one of the partitions I have. Makes life easier. :)