Looking for new camera, something good for quick motion shots

[Kremlar]

Looking for a new camera. Difficult to take shots with quick motion with the camera we have now (few year old Canon point and shoot). My step son is big into sports, and we want our live action shots to be as good as possible.

Someone recommended the Canon SLR line to us, but wondering if that might be overkill. I see one of its strong points is multiple FPS shooting, but are other point and shoot cameras capable of this as well?

If an SLR is a good choice for us, wondering what the real world difference between these two are:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-...0753893&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-...0787405&sr=1-2

It seems the bottom one is missing a lense, but I'm not sure what that lense does and if it's important to us.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[virtuamike]

For sports, you really won't find the same responsiveness of an SLR in a P&S. Having the extra FPS is nice but not absolutely crucial for sports. The biggest difference is being able to fire when you want to rather than waiting for the camera to be ready.

As far as those 2 links go, you'll need a lens. Otherwise you're not going to get much shooting done.

The kit lens isn't a bad pick to start with, because at least it'll give you a guide to what you want to get next. If you can, try renting or borrowing lenses before making a final decision on what to buy. Photography is very subjective and personal. It's important to get the right feel for it all.

 

[randay]

maybe a video camera instead? if you just want to capture your step sons moments video camera should be the easiest.

 

[Kremlar]

We do want high resolution stills, it's just difficult to get that "exact" moment with a slow point and shoot camera.

Thanks for the info on the lense - makes sense!

 

[ElFenix]

the exact moment can only be gotten with a rangefinder. SLR you have no idea what moment you captured because the finder is blacked out.

ok, esoteric differences aside, an SLR is your best bet because they focus so quickly and the shutter responds much more quickly than compacts. even the best compact can't focus anywhere near as quickly as the cheapest SLRs, nor is the shutter as responsive. and SLRs are just as easy to use, just turn the wheel on top to the green box (or even better there is probably a dedicated sports setting on the wheel), and then press the shutter button. point and shoot.

and yes, you do need a lens. you'll probably want more than one. the standard one is probably a bit short for taking shots from across the field.

 

[cparker]

Get the first one with the lens, or you can get a Nikon d40 with kit lens, they are going for 440 dollars at Adorama along with some extra goodies (http://www.adorama.com/INKD40KH.html). Personally, I'd get the Nikon d40 as it's cheaper and is a superb camera, and I'd apply the difference towards another lens, either a 35 mm 1.8 and/or the 55-200 mm VR telephoto zoom lens. (I also have Canon cameras and lenses, which I use and love, but the d40 deal is the best around I believe).

 

[Kremlar]

Thanks guys. For the price, I will probably drop down to this unit:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-XS-Digit...0840643&sr=1-1

I may look at the Nikon as well, but I've had such great luck with Canons in the past I'd hate to change a different brand!

 

[VorpalBunny]

Thanks guys. For the price, I will probably drop down to this unit:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-XS-Digit...0840643&sr=1-1

I may look at the Nikon as well, but I've had such great luck with Canons in the past I'd hate to change a different brand!

For many the brand choice of an SLR between Nikon and Canon (or even Sony or Olympus) is based on what equipment they already have or their friends have. I suspect your son plays in sports that require photographers to be on the sideline or far enough away that I think you will want to invest in a zoom lens that will cover up to or more than 200mm. Both Canon and Nikon seem to make similar zoom lenses.

When making that choice, be sure to weigh in the cost of the lenses you will want to buy (both now and in the future). Remember to think about SLRs having both body *and* lens where as P&S cameras are all in one packages. The costs of any future lens may sway you to one camp or the other.

 

[oogabooga]

Thanks guys. For the price, I will probably drop down to this unit:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-XS-Digit...0840643&sr=1-1

I may look at the Nikon as well, but I've had such great luck with Canons in the past I'd hate to change a different brand!

I don't know if it's still going on, but I got the XSi + kit lens + a 55-250 telephoto for around 750 bucks earlier this year. It seems that deal has popped up in a couple variations since then, sometimes a different camera, othertimes might have a printer or such.

Before you jump into DSLR photography, think about how much you want to spend, and if it is feasible. Take a look at the 'lens guide' stickies to get an idea of what 'cheap' and 'expensive' is when it comes to camera lenses. The camera body you buy may very well be the cheapest thing you purchase.

If your son does a lot of outdoor sports and you're far off to the side, I'd imagine some sort of telephoto lens would be needed. the 55-250 4.0-5.6 IS that my camera came with retails for around $200-250ish. It's a competent lens and I don't do too much shooting in that range so I haven't upgraded it. The most logical upgrade for me would probably be the 70-200 4.0 L which is $600 bucks.

 

[madison1979]

So happy that I found this thread about choosing which camera is best. I am planning to buy too for special events like this Christmas.

 

[OulOat]

I'm going to go against the consensus and caution you against getting a DSLR. I find this forum jumps on the DSLR boat too often and too quickly. Straight from your op, you admit you don't know what a lens does. That is troubling to me, and I can't recommend a DSLR if you don't know basic photography.

Now, I'm not bashing DSLRs. I'm suggesting that you seriously consider what you are willing to sacrifice for photographing your stepson. Yes, sacrifice is the correct verb. A DSLR is much more powerful and flexible than a P&S... if you know what you are doing. In the hands of a common photographer, a DSLR is no better than a P&S and can actually be more constraining.

Ask yourself these questions.
1) Are you willing to spend the time to learn photography? Almost all DSLRs come with an automatic mode, but if you hoping to emulate magazine photographs using that mode, forget about it. The real power of a DSLR lies in the manual controls, and that takes time and experimentation to learn. Additionally, learning the camera's features is just a small part of the battle; the real difficult part is acquiring an eye for photographs. That may take a lifetime.
2) How much money can you spend on this? No matter how you cut it, DSLRs are not cheap. Worse, the camera body itself is often the most affordable part of the entire package. The lenses and other accessories will cost you. Before you deny that you will need to upgrade, let's examine your needs. You want to take photographs of your stepson playing sports. The kit Canon lens has a zoom factor of 3x. Even at the highest zoom, your photos will contain more of the field than your stepson. Now you have to upgrade. Maybe get a 55-200 zoom the previous posters recommended. To protect your lens, you should get some filters. And a bag for all your equipment. You'll discover the built in flash isn't that powerful, so maybe it's time to get a new flash. Everything costs $$$, and before you know it... (my next point)
3) Are you comfortable carrying around a huge brick of a camera? DSLRs are big. Their accessories just add to the bulk. Lugging everything around is a pain. Forget about sliding your camera into your pocket and heading out. Now you are concerned with keeping a second eye on your stuff. If you lose or someone takes your stuff, that's a big chunk of $$$ gone.

Hopefully, I haven't drove you away from photography yet. If you are willing to put up with the above, by all means get a DSLR. Read no further, it will be a great investment. Seriously, just stop here.

However, if you are just a casual photographer, someone who just want some photographs but none of the complexity, avoid DSLRs. Luckily, the camera makers recognized your market segment a while ago and began to manufacture cameras for casual photographers who want to a more powerful P&S/ simpler DSLR. They created the mega-zoom P&S cameras. The sheer amount of built-in features is amazing, but they are straightforward enough to allow you to just take pictures without the BS.

Let's see what a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ35 has:
1) Cost is $350
2) 18x zoom, 27 - 486mm (35mm equiv.) and image stabilized. This is more zoom than a 200mm on the Canon.
3) Macro ability for close objects like flowers
4) Many different continuous shooting modes, but the standard is 2-3 fps for 5 images
5) HD movie recording. Forget about having this on an entry level DSLR.
6) Grab it and go.
7) And a multifold of other features that only a serious photographer would care about.

This review, even though it's a bit old, will give you a pretty good insight into megazooms.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q109superzoomgroup/

Before anyone flames me, if you compare images from a DSLR and a megazoom at a pixel level, a DSLR would be undeniably better. But, I doubt you would be able to tell a quality difference from a printed 4x6 photo. The only difference is:

(kit DSLR) Here is Timmy's school. If you look very hard in this corner, that little dot is Timmy.
(megazoom) This is a photo of Timmy tackl... well, I'll just let the photo speak for itself.

 

[ChunkiMunki]

OulOat, good advice. I just purchased a Sony alpha 100 kit for $280 and regret it...it's just too much and i don't have the time to master a DSLR. It's so disappointing to take a bunch of shots that turn out blurry or dark or washed out. I should have used that cash and purchased a megazoom with HD video.

 

[Muse]

OulOat, good advice. I just purchased a Sony alpha 100 kit for $280 and regret it...it's just too much and i don't have the time to master a DSLR. It's so disappointing to take a bunch of shots that turn out blurry or dark or washed out. I should have used that cash and purchased a megazoom with HD video.

Is the best the Canon SX20 IS? The video is a question mark for me because it saves in .mov format and don't know if I can easily project with my 720p projector either from the camera or my PC. However, I assume there's a way.

My biggest concerns with a megazoom would be shutter responsiveness and recharge time. A lot of the shots I'm missing now are because there's a lot of movement -- family pictures of little kids! I'm also wondering about the hot shoe flash on that Canon. Can I get a detached flash that does a good job and isn't too expensive. I poked around but couldn't find any info.

 

[hackmole]

This camera currently being sold at $229 is one of the best rated point and shoots even better than all of the Canons in this price range. It is great for sports because it has burst mode technology for fast action events, a 10 power magnification and will also give you 720p high def movie capture so you don't even need a video cam all of which no other camera does at that price range and quality. Here is some more information about it.

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H20/B 10.1 MP Digital Camera with 10x Optical Zoom and Super Steady Shot Image Stabilization

10.1-megapixel Super HAD CCD image sensor
10x optical zoom Carl Zeiss Vario-Tessar lens; Optical SteadyShot image stabilization
720p high-definition movie capture; BIONZ image processor
3.0-inch (230K pixels) LCD; Face Detection and Smile Shutter technology

The Sony DSC-H20 is a full-featured point-and-shoot with outstanding high-power zoom capability and fast shutter speed. It includes Smile Shutter technology which captures smiles the moment they happen, as well as Face Detection technology to optimize focus, exposure and color for up to eight faces. Capture detailed images with 10 megapixel resolution, and get in close to the action with the 10x optical zoom Carl Zeiss lens. Intelligent Scene Recognition helps you avoid failure picture, while Sony’s Double Anti-Blur solution (Super SteadyShot optical image stabilization plus High ISO) helps keep your images blur-free. The DSC-H20 completes the package with a 3.0-Inch Clear Photo LCD Plus Display that lets you easily view your images and menu options. Supplied accessories include a rechargeable battery (NP-BG1), a battery charger (BC-CSGB), a multi-connector cable, a lens cap and the CD-ROM software. Memory sticks are only optional.

Here is a review I found about it

By Petra Springer on amazon.com


I am no expert when it comes to photography but enjoy taking good pictures of my family and friends. I have kids in sports and I like to take my own pictures for picture giving. I read many reviews (for hours) on various cameras and endet up with this one here. I first was going to get the DSC-H50 (one step up from the DSC-H20). When I went to the store to buy it, however, it was to large for my taste. It was to big to fit in a pants pocket and even for my small purse it was quite large. Here are the main reasons why this camera is awesome!

This camera here is not as compact as your typical slim camera (due to the 10x zoom), but it is small enough to fit in a purse or even a jacket/pants pocket if need be.

This camera has a burst mode so you can hold down the shutter and the camera will take numerous pictures, thus making it ideal for action shots. I took it to a Volleyball tournament and got unbelievable shots of my daughter serving and hitting! I cought her in mid air more then a few times...just what I had hoped for. I also took pictures at a track meet and got kids jumping hurdles...the pictures look almost like magazine shots!

This camera is extremely easy to use in the easy and auto adjust mode! It tells you everything on the screen. You can start shooting pretty much right away...it's that easy! The manual is good to have for reference and questions and if you really want to get to know your camera.

The zoom is great and plenty! I took pictures from the mezzanine onto the Volleyball courts and could get nice close up shots! 10x is plenty for me!

The battery life is also impressive, as long as you keep your screen on a regular bright setting. First I had it set to "bright" and the battery didn't do well. Then I set it to normal and it lasts a long time. I took about 150 shots and not a single bar was missing from the battery!

It has a rechargebale battery so you don't have to keep buying regular batteries. Also, it does say that you can get a international charger so the battery charger can be plugged in anywhere in the world. (Still have to get that myself). What a nice option.

The quality of the pictures is also great! I took a team photo and my daughter took it to a practice to show the others. They choose the picture to use in a frame as a gift to the coaches. It turned out so good and all I did was push a button!

When shooting pictures, it has a option for the file size you select. If you know you want to email pictures, or for example if you sell on eBay and want to download pictures onto the ebay site, you select the small file size and shoot pictures that way for working with them online. For pictures that you use for portraits for example, you choose a larger file (pixels I guess), and that way it does not distort the picture when you enlarge it. That is also extremely easy to figure out!

Last but not least...I plugged it into my pc with the supplied USB cord and retrieved the photos the same way I always did in the past. I have not yet added the picture cd that came with it, but my guess is that it will work very good. I also took the 2GB SD card to Wal mart and made nice prints (you have to purchase the pro duo stick seperate...look for the "Sony pro-Duo Stick" cost about $13-$15). The 2 GB is plenty for me, I think it holds about 400 pictures).

Great camera...I have not found a flaw yet!

 

[OulOat]

Is the best the Canon SX20 IS? The video is a question mark for me because it saves in .mov format and don't know if I can easily project with my 720p projector either from the camera or my PC. However, I assume there's a way.

You will have to refer to your manual or google for the actual directions, but pretty much any digital camera now-a-days come with USB or Video Out connection for exporting/playing pictures or videos. Just a warning though, the Canon SX20IS shoots HD video at 30 FPS, not sure if you are bothered by the FPS being faster than normal.

My biggest concerns with a megazoom would be shutter responsiveness and recharge time. A lot of the shots I'm missing now are because there's a lot of movement -- family pictures of little kids!

Have you tried focusing before taking the picture? Shutter responsiveness is slower on a P&S than on a SLR, but I find the difference rather minuscule. I would wager most of the lag between pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the photo is caused by the camera's focus system. SLRs use an old yet more effective/speedier AF system; while P&S use a new system that allows manufactures to save cost at the expense of speed and accuracy. You will improve your photos with both SLRs and P&S if you focus before telling the camera to take the picture. Again, you will have to read your manual for exact instructions, but in most cameras you just need to hold the shutter button half way down. You will feel a difference in the shutter button half-way down. You will feel a resistance; press any harder and the camera will take the picture. When the shutter button is half way down, the camera will auto-focus. After the camera has completed auto-focusing, it remains at this focus as long as you hold the button half-way down (focus is locked). When your subjects are ready, press all the way down and the camera will immediately take the photo. Your subjects can move along the plane of focus without a problem, but if they move closer or further away from the camera, you will need to refocus.

I don't know why battery recharge time would affect your shooting; my advice to you would be to purchase multiple batteries. If you meant continuous shooting speed, then yes, P&S do not have the expensive hardware to process the pictures quickly like DSLRs do. But that doesn't mean P&S are horrible at continuous shooting. In this area, P&S varies quite a bit. The Canon SX20IS can do .7 FPS (with Liveview) or 1 FPS (no Liveview) until the card is full.

I'm also wondering about the hot shoe flash on that Canon. Can I get a detached flash that does a good job and isn't too expensive. I poked around but couldn't find any info.

Ripped from DPreview.com
The PowerShot SX20 IS has a built-in hot shoe that enables it to be used with a range of optional accessories including Speedlite EX flashes (including 270EX, 220EX, 430EX II, 580EX II) as well as the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E2 and Off-Camera Shoe Cord OC-E3.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081904canonsx20is.asp

 

[ChunkiMunki]

he might be refering to "flash recharge time". My Nikon and Sony P&S have a flash lag time between shots of up to 10 seconds, man is that annoying.

More griping from me, I thought a DSLR in "auto" would give the same quality of photo as a P&S, only faster..sadly this is not the case with my Sony.

 

[Muse]

You will have to refer to your manual or google for the actual directions, but pretty much any digital camera now-a-days come with USB or Video Out connection for exporting/playing pictures or videos. Just a warning though, the Canon SX20IS shoots HD video at 30 FPS, not sure if you are bothered by the FPS being faster than normal.

Yeah 30 FPS, well I guess whatever program plays it would have to go at that speed or it will look funny, slow motion actually! I'd want it shown at the speed taken.

Have you tried focusing before taking the picture? Shutter responsiveness is slower on a P&S than on a SLR, but I find the difference rather minuscule. I would wager most of the lag between pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the photo is caused by the camera's focus system. SLRs use an old yet more effective/speedier AF system; while P&S use a new system that allows manufactures to save cost at the expense of speed and accuracy. You will improve your photos with both SLRs and P&S if you focus before telling the camera to take the picture. Again, you will have to read your manual for exact instructions, but in most cameras you just need to hold the shutter button half way down. You will feel a difference in the shutter button half-way down. You will feel a resistance; press any harder and the camera will take the picture. When the shutter button is half way down, the camera will auto-focus. After the camera has completed auto-focusing, it remains at this focus as long as you hold the button half-way down (focus is locked). When your subjects are ready, press all the way down and the camera will immediately take the photo. Your subjects can move along the plane of focus without a problem, but if they move closer or further away from the camera, you will need to refocus.

Thanks for explaining this, I'd seen similar descriptions but don't know if my current P&S does this (Samsung Digimax V3). I'll look in the manual. However, I should be aware of these things for my next camera.

I don't know why battery recharge time would affect your shooting; my advice to you would be to purchase multiple batteries. If you meant continuous shooting speed, then yes, P&S do not have the expensive hardware to process the pictures quickly like DSLRs do. But that doesn't mean P&S are horrible at continuous shooting. In this area, P&S varies quite a bit. The Canon SX20IS can do .7 FPS (with Liveview) or 1 FPS (no Liveview) until the card is full.

I didn't explain that right. By slow recharge I didn't mean recharging the batteries (the Samsung uses 2 AAs and I use NiMH), I meant the minimum 7 second delay before the camera's ready to take another shot. That's a killer when taking pictures of kids! Yeah, I meant continuous shooting speed. AFAIK my Samsung doesn't support that at all! Thanks for explaining the delay being a factor of AF. I haven't been thinking in those terms, in fact I've been mystified why the camera takes so long to take the shot after I press the button. Maybe the manual will help there. Maybe a 1/2 press will lock the focus, like you say. At the very least, pointing the camera at the subject may speed up the focusing so I don't have that delay.

I finally understand the SX20IS rate. I saw these figured but just made sense of it. .7 FPS means it actually takes every 1.3 seconds or so with Liveview active. I usually turn off the LCD of my Samsung to preserve battery life. 1 FPS I might be able to live with, 3 FPS (DSLR type figures) would be better, but 1 FPS is still 7x better than I have now!

Ripped from DPreview.com
The PowerShot SX20 IS has a built-in hot shoe that enables it to be used with a range of optional accessories including Speedlite EX flashes (including 270EX, 220EX, 430EX II, 580EX II) as well as the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E2 and Off-Camera Shoe Cord OC-E3.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081904canonsx20is.asp

Thanks for that. I haven't gotten around to checking out the reviews at the sites. DPreview would be my first hit. I really am very green in this scene. I got my Samsung by virtue of seeing a thread here in Hot Deals over 5 years ago.

Not being limited to pop up flash would be a big selling point for me with the SX20IS over say the Nikon P90 or the Panasonic FZ35. Don't know how the hot shoe would work out for me, but I have a couple of books (Scott Kelby's The Digital Photography Book Vol. 1 & 2) that stress that pop up flash is horrible, horrible! I saw some threads yesterday on the Panasonic FZ35 for a megazoom, and am checking that out too. The Pany will shoot 2.5 FPS for 5 shots, 10 FPS for 100 shots at 3 Megapixel res. No articulating LCD, is way lighter but uses Lithium rechargeable, which to me is a negative. Seems to have a little better IQ. I may go for a Nikon D40, though. People evidently think it's the best bang for the buck right now in a cheap DSLR. Or maybe a Pentax DSLR, which I think uses AA's too.

 

[Kremlar]

We ended up getting the Canon XS, and my wife loves it so far. Lots to learn, but I think she's going to really get into it. Right off the bad there are a lot of advantages over the P&S we had.

 

[OulOat]

I didn't explain that right. By slow recharge I didn't mean recharging the batteries (the Samsung uses 2 AAs and I use NiMH), I meant the minimum 7 second delay before the camera's ready to take another shot. That's a killer when taking pictures of kids! Yeah, I meant continuous shooting speed. AFAIK my Samsung doesn't support that at all!

7 seconds sounds a bit too long for a camera, but I don't know about that camera. It's a pretty old camera; any camera now-a-days will outclass it. Looking on flickr, the image quality seems to be about the same as a camera phone.

I finally understand the SX20IS rate. I saw these figured but just made sense of it. .7 FPS means it actually takes every 1.3 seconds or so with Liveview active. I usually turn off the LCD of my Samsung to preserve battery life. 1 FPS I might be able to live with, 3 FPS (DSLR type figures) would be better, but 1 FPS is still 7x better than I have now!

Keep in mind the FPS is calculated with the flash off. Even with an external flash, FPS can be impacted significantly as the flash recharges. The only way around this is to use external power supplies or professional lighting, but that is way too complex for most people.

Not being limited to pop up flash would be a big selling point for me with the SX20IS over say the Nikon P90 or the Panasonic FZ35. Don't know how the hot shoe would work out for me, but I have a couple of books (Scott Kelby's The Digital Photography Book Vol. 1 & 2) that stress that pop up flash is horrible, horrible!

I would like to dispel the myth that pop up flashes are horrible. They are a harsh, direct lighting source. They tend to create high contrast photos, with direct shadows and burned out textures. Because the general populace goes with the simplest solution, on-camera flashes are overused and undesirable. However, if used correctly, you will not be able to tell if the flash is on or off camera. Also, my on-camera flashes have saved my butt many times when my off-camera flashes are out of commission or not with me.

With off-camera flashes, you gain flexibility in the direction of the light (main or supplement). If you point the flash directly forwards, the light will be the same as from a pop-up flash. However, you can change the angle instead and bounce the flash off of objects (walls, boxes, etc) to scatter the light, to soften and blend the light. Additionally, there are third party accessories to aid in softening the light from both on-camera and off-camera flashes. Even a piece of scotch tape over the flash may do the trick for you.

Before you dedicate to the off-camera flash route, consider these 3 issues:
1) Price - Off-camera flashes + accessories = $$$
2) Complexity - For the life of me, I can't understand why flash manufacturers can't make flash straightforward to operate. Even though I didn't open my camera manual until playing around with the custom options, I had to look up how to setup basic operations on my flash right away.
3) Size - Off-camera flashes + accessories = huge. Bigger than my DSLR.

I saw some threads yesterday on the Panasonic FZ35 for a megazoom, and am checking that out too. The Pany will shoot 2.5 FPS for 5 shots, 10 FPS for 100 shots at 3 Megapixel res. No articulating LCD, is way lighter but uses Lithium rechargeable, which to me is a negative. Seems to have a little better IQ. I may go for a Nikon D40, though. People evidently think it's the best bang for the buck right now in a cheap DSLR. Or maybe a Pentax DSLR, which I think uses AA's too.

I cannot stress the importance of using a camera. Simple things, such as the direction to turn a lens to focus, divide the manufacturers/ clients. Play around with the cameras, you may find it's worth the premium to purchase a camera that you like to use.

 

[OulOat]

We ended up getting the Canon XS, and my wife loves it so far. Lots to learn, but I think she's going to really get into it. Right off the bad there are a lot of advantages over the P&S we had.

Welcome to the club.

 

[Muse]

7 seconds sounds a bit too long for a camera, but I don't know about that camera. It's a pretty old camera; any camera now-a-days will outclass it. Looking on flickr, the image quality seems to be about the same as a camera phone.

The 7 seconds may be with flash. I should really know by now. I've taken thousands of shots with it (I have about 5700 JPGs on my HD taken with it). It's the only digital camera I've ever had (Samsung Digimax V3 3.2 megapixels, uses 2 x AA). Are you serious that the IQ is like a camera phone? This is where my inexperience has me feeling like a dope. Like I say, the Samsung is all I know. I've read hundreds of posts and scores of articles talking about IQ, comparing cameras and lenses and I just don't have realistic ideas about what those statements mean. Most of the pictures I've been taking look beautiful to me (the untrained eye sees what's good about a photo, is largely incapable of perceiving weakness, shortcomings, noise, etc. I think), and I often crop them, occasionally touch them up one way or another, but I've never printed a single one of them and I only look at them on a 19" LCD at most. Occasionally I send them to relatives. I sent CDs with many hundreds of JPGs to many of my relatives not long ago. The shots were the best the Samsung is capable of, 1.5-1.7 MB JPGs. How much better looking JPGs made with a DSLR would be is something I can't even speculate about. I see links in threads here to photos and people exclaim how they are evidence of a certain camera's quality or lack thereof, but my untrained eye isn't capable of understanding the poster's assertions. I'm not a complete noob. I've looked at a lot of pictures (most people have!), I used to be into film photography, but judging the quality of digital photos is something I just don't have a grasp of.

Keep in mind the FPS is calculated with the flash off. Even with an external flash, FPS can be impacted significantly as the flash recharges. The only way around this is to use external power supplies or professional lighting, but that is way too complex for most people.

Thanks!

I would like to dispel the myth that pop up flashes are horrible. They are a harsh, direct lighting source. They tend to create high contrast photos, with direct shadows and burned out textures. Because the general populace goes with the simplest solution, on-camera flashes are overused and undesirable. However, if used correctly, you will not be able to tell if the flash is on or off camera. Also, my on-camera flashes have saved my butt many times when my off-camera flashes are out of commission or not with me.

I was wondering about that. I've seen nobody else condemn pop up flash other than Scott Kelby in that book (The Digital Photography Book Vol. 2). He really got me thinking that I have to get an external flash with my next camera. However, that would rule out the Panansonic FZ35, which otherwise lacks little compared to the Canon SX20 IS other than the reticulating screen.

With off-camera flashes, you gain flexibility in the direction of the light (main or supplement). If you point the flash directly forwards, the light will be the same as from a pop-up flash. However, you can change the angle instead and bounce the flash off of objects (walls, boxes, etc) to scatter the light, to soften and blend the light. Additionally, there are third party accessories to aid in softening the light from both on-camera and off-camera flashes. Even a piece of scotch tape over the flash may do the trick for you.

I've been wondering how I could improve the results when using pop up flash. Scott Kelby discusses this but he's not terribly specific. Says you can buy an accessory or make something out of a cut up plastic milk jug (no directions). I'm pretty handy, so I could probably do something. Obviously, blocking the flash with a transluscent screen would decrease the light hitting your subject. Maybe the camera would adjust exposure on the fly to compensate for that? I could go manual, but so far I haven't even messed with the manual controls on my Samsung (it has them).

Before you dedicate to the off-camera flash route, consider these 3 issues:
1) Price - Off-camera flashes + accessories = $$$
2) Complexity - For the life of me, I can't understand why flash manufacturers can't make flash straightforward to operate. Even though I didn't open my camera manual until playing around with the custom options, I had to look up how to setup basic operations on my flash right away.
3) Size - Off-camera flashes + accessories = huge. Bigger than my DSLR.

Yep, you have me thinking that maybe I can do without that hot shoe after all! I was wondering that, but your statements amplify this thinking a lot! If I carry around an external flash system, I should maybe just go all the way and get a DSLR.

I cannot stress the importance of using a camera. Simple things, such as the direction to turn a lens to focus, divide the manufacturers/ clients. Play around with the cameras, you may find it's worth the premium to purchase a camera that you like to use.

Yes, I saw a Nikon P90 (24x megazoom) today at Costco. They didn't have the Panasonic FZ35 or the Canon SX20 IS, though. My sister just got the Nikon P90 a couple of weeks ago. I think I'll go into my local Best Buy and see if they have the Pany and the Canon and try to get a feeling about the ergonomics. Myself, though, I have very little in the way of preconceived notions, habits or predilections concerning what I want where, feel, weight, etc. so I think I could probably get used to most anything. However I do want a camera that people consider easy and convenient to use, with controls that are well thought out, not unnecessarily complicated. One extensive review liked the wheel on the Canon (although they said that it having smooth action and not featuring clicking was a serious negative) compared to the joystick of the Pany. However, the Pany averages 5 stars on customer reviews at Amazon while the Canon averages 4 stars. I figure that says a lot! The Pany can shoot RAW too, which I've never even had an opportunity to deal with but figure it might be a good idea in my next camera. I have Photoshop Elements, so I guess I can get into it with that.

 

[OulOat]

Most of the pictures I've been taking look beautiful to me

This is all that matters.

A camera is just a tool; there will always be better and more expensive ones out there, but as long as you are happy with what you have, then they don't matter. All you need for a 4x6in print is a 2mps image at 300 px per inch, so your current camera is more than sufficient.

I've been wondering how I could improve the results when using pop up flash.

Lighting is one of those things you have to play and learn. Reading about it is nowhere as good as some hands on experience. Google "point and shoot flash" and try out everything.

 

[Muse]

This is all that matters.

A camera is just a tool; there will always be better and more expensive ones out there, but as long as you are happy with what you have, then they don't matter. All you need for a 4x6in print is a 2mps image at 300 px per inch, so your current camera is more than sufficient.

Yes, I've really enjoyed this camera and am happy with so many of the shots. My frustration comes from situations where responsiveness is imperative and in those situations this camera is FAIL. Slow startup, very slow readiness to take the next shot. It's my primary reason for wanting to get another camera. Of course, it can't be my only criterion. Even if I don't get a DSLR now, I figure I should some day. I just won't have a realistic idea of the advantages that a DSLR can provide if I never use one. Interesting post I think in this thread where a guy says his Sony DSLR in auto mode has disappointed him in not providing even the quality of his P&S in auto mode. I suppose it's an A200 or an A100, cameras I was considering last year. Here's the post:

More griping from me, I thought a DSLR in "auto" would give the same quality of photo as a P&S, only faster..sadly this is not the case with my Sony.

Lighting is one of those things you have to play and learn. Reading about it is nowhere as good as some hands on experience. Google "point and shoot flash" and try out everything.

Thanks for that excellent idea!!!

All you need for a 4x6in print is a 2mps image at 300 px per inch, so your current camera is more than sufficient.

What is 2mps image at 300 px (pixels, I suppose) per inch? mps=?

 

[extra]

the exact moment can only be gotten with a rangefinder. SLR you have no idea what moment you captured because the finder is blacked out.

LoL. *bonk*.

Yeah, you want an SLR for action. And yes, you need a lens. The kit lens (18-55mm IS) is pretty good for learning. Well, it's good even if you are a pro for what it is (it's very sharp). Get the 55-250mm IS to go with it and then buy a book or two to learn more.

 

[OulOat]

What is 2mps image at 300 px (pixels, I suppose) per inch? mps=?

300 dpi (dots per inch) is a common photo printer setting. Computer screens usually display 72 dpi, which is why pictures look bigger onscreen. To find the resolution needed for a common 4x6in photo: 300*300*4*6 = 2,160,000 pixels per in = ~2 megapixels.