Looking for new audio player, questions...

[tinpanalley]

I've been using my Cowon S9 since about 2008. The volume button wasn't responding and now the spring in the on/off switch snapped and it's just not working. To be fair, this thing was well taken care of and used almost daily for 8 years so that's pretty amazing and more than I can say for most consumer electronics these days.

I spend a lot of time (happily) taking care of my media file music collection, ripping CDs and tagging them etc so I know my fair share about music files. What I'm wondering is whether the player itself even matters much anymore when compared to the quality of the headphones or the encoding of the music.

What do I want on this player?
- FLAC and WAV support (there is a reason for the WAV, it's not just stubborn audiophileness)
- gapless support
- would love if it had 24-bit audio support
- I'd love a nice touch screen because I really make sure my albums have good, high res artwork. I don't mind buttons for controls, in fact I think I might prefer them if the UI was really crap like it was on my Cowon.
- SD storage would be wonderful, if possible.
- I don't need any EQ, I want the files playing as encoded. No effects, or normalisers either. Just take my high quality file and play it straight, please.
- No shuffle functions. Can't stand them. I listen to one album at a time, I hate interrupting an album with some other random song from my collection.
- No radio, no games, nothing else. I just need to visually flip through my music and see the artwork nicely and 'put on a record' like I do at home.
- I'd love it if this was under 100€.

I don't need the lectures, please, about how FLAC files are pointless. How I'll never hear the difference while out and about anyway. I have a very good system for listening to music at home and I just want to be able to copy from there to this device and go on my way.

Anyone have any recommendations? I've even played with the idea of using my last phone (a Lumia 925), uninstalling all the apps and just running it as a music player with Win10's Groove app which is pretty great but I don't know if there would be a problem with that, qualitywise?

Thanks!

 

[monkey333]

At&t version of the moto e is on sale at best buy for 30. Supports at least a 200gb sd card, I use one with no issues.

 

[Crono]

HTC One M8 with PowerAmp, if you can find it for a good price.

The ZTE Axon (my current phone) likewise has good quality via headphones (speaker is average at best, but I doubt you need to use it). No microSD, though.

The advantage of Android for music playing is you can get the app/interface you want rather than using whatever a dedicated player is limited to.

 

[tidy]

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[gorcorps]

I have not personally used it, but if I was going to be looking for the best dedicated audio player for the money these days (especially for FLAC) I would look at Fiio. There are other dedicated players out there that cost a ton of money, but since you're working on a limited budget those are probably out of the question. IMO a smartphone does good duty as a music player if you're using it as a phone too (so you only have to carry one device). None of them are good enough audio players on their own right to bother with if you still want a dedicated audio player though... get something that was built from the ground up to handle audio and you'll be much happier.

http://www.amazon.com/X1-Resolution...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1464265109&sr=1-1&keywords=fiio
http://www.amazon.com/X3-II-Resolut...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1464265109&sr=1-6&keywords=fiio
http://www.amazon.com/X5-Resolution...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1464265109&sr=1-5&keywords=fiio

 

[sweenish]

How is it managing two SD cards, though? That's always put me off of Fiio. It just seems like an organizational nightmare.

If I were stupid rich, I'd be rocking the Sony Walkman, the $1200 one. But I'm not. So I don't.

 

[gorcorps]

How is it managing two SD cards, though? That's always put me off of Fiio. It just seems like an organizational nightmare.

If I were stupid rich, I'd be rocking the Sony Walkman, the $1200 one. But I'm not. So I don't.

So you intend to have multiple cards and swap them out because your collection is so large? Not sure. I can't imagine that's a seamless process on any device.

 

[Oyeve]

I've converted my lgv10 for audio only purposes. It's dac and hd are second to none. Out of your price range tho.

 

[sweenish]

So you intend to have multiple cards and swap them out because your collection is so large? Not sure. I can't imagine that's a seamless process on any device.

Even with just 2 SD cards, my library isn't static.

I would much rather they just put their awesome sauce on top of a 256 GB SSD or something. Trying to manage a library between multiple mSD cards, even if they're the only two just doesn't seem like a good time. Can it at least read from both at the same time? That would lessen the hassle significantly.

I know a lot of people don't mind some hassle due to the audio quality, but I would rather have a one and done type solution.

 

[tidy]

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[Oyeve]

I was going to buy that phone until I read about image retention on the screen. Have you seen any on yours? Also, do you see any backlight bleed from the secondary screen's backlight?

I have seen no image retention on mine. As for bleed on the second screen, I see a little bit on the upper left part. I can only see it when I use the phone in total darkness. It doesn't bother me. The sound on this phone is fantastic and can drive my most hard core demanding headphones without an external DAC. Actually, when I do put in an external DAC my headphones literally bounce on my head!

 

[tinpanalley]

I was recommended a Fiio X1. Perfect price, looks like it's got the audio specs to make it worthwhile for me but it does one really annoying thing that I'm sure some people won't understand my complaining about... it crops the album art when it's playing an album. If I'm lucky this thing will last me as long as my Cowon did and I'm sorry if this sounds ridiculous but I don't go out of my way to get the proper LP jacket image for each record I listen to to not see them fully when I'm listening on the go. That just seems like a silly thing to omit to me. I guess it suggests that they don't think their audience cares as much about the artwork but I guess growing up when I did, the visual artwork, the jacket, the sleeve, even the plastic case and liner notes of the CD are all parts of the music listening experience to me. I guess I'm in the minority.
As I said, real shame because the price and specs were perfect. I did try when I went out today listening with both my Cowon (I have another one that doesn't fail as bad) and my older phone, Lumia 925. There is a difference. The phone doesn't get up quite as high volumewise and seems to be less rich sounding.

 

[gorcorps]

Check out the xduoo... There's both an x2 and x3. It might be another option, as they're both pretty low cost it seems

 

[tidy]

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[tinpanalley]

I've been looking at review after review, watching videos and looking at photos over and over again and I just can't get over the fact that you don't see the full artwork on the X1 despite how fantastic it is as a player. I also like that it doesn't have a touch screen because the Cowon's is so difficult to use that you often wish you had buttons to control the menu.
I'd also like to see if there's anything out there with USB3.0. Copying FLAC files can take a while if the USB port is really slow like on the Cowon S9.
If anyone has ANY other recommendations I'd love to hear them. I know USB3.0 probably pushes any DAP out of my price range.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Well with a phone you can use an sdcard and copy to it over USB 3.0. I'm going to suggest one again, along with viper4android:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223
It needs root access to install but it has ruined me for listening without it. It turns something like a $10 LG Fuel into the best damn music player you'll lay ears on.

 

[tinpanalley]

Well with a phone you can use an sdcard and copy to it over USB 3.0. I'm going to suggest one again, along with viper4android:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223
It needs root access to install but it has ruined me for listening without it. It turns something like a $10 LG Fuel into the best damn music player you'll lay ears on.

Doesn't look like viper is a media player though, only an EQ application. And plus, it's for Android which I don't have.

 

[sweenish]

An equalizer can help, but a garbage DAC is still a garbage DAC. No two ways around that.

 

[tinpanalley]

An equalizer can help, but a garbage DAC is still a garbage DAC. No two ways around that.

Ok. And what determines a garbage DAC from a good one? And to what extent does that depend on the file being listened to? I'm sure it matters for 24bit 192kHz audio but does it really matter for 16-44?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Doesn't look like viper is a media player though, only an EQ application. And plus, it's for Android which I don't have.

Android phones are cheap and player apps are many.

 

[sweenish]

Ok. And what determines a garbage DAC from a good one? And to what extent does that depend on the file being listened to? I'm sure it matters for 24bit 192kHz audio but does it really matter for 16-44?

Generally, the listener makes the determination. And generally, the DAC is just a part on a chain. Source through encoder to file to player (implementation of decoding matters, equalization, etc.), to possible amp to listening device to the ear.

More generally, cheap phones have cheap DACs. Cheap DACs are generally garbage DACs. And you have your situations where they would matter reversed, I imagine. A FLAC has a better shot a good digital to analog conversion since it has so much more information. A garbage-encoded lossy (I'm talking about low bitrates, not that lossy encoding is garbage) is much more likely to suffer from a poor DAC.

Since this thread starts off with a dead Cowon, and heavy considerations given to Fiio, it doesn't seem a stretch to assume that you want a good listening experience, and likely have some higher quality cans or buds. The suggestions of cheap phones, even with a specialized EQ ROM, kind of fly in the face of wanting a decent listening experience.

I would get either a high end, high capacity smartphone (if you really want a single device and are due for a phone upgrade) or a dedicated player like the Sony A17 or better (from Sony. Lower Sony models don't have mSD slots and poor capacity) Fiio is still a solid recommend. That is, if you aren't still dead set against Fiio over album art.

If you just want price over anything else, I don't see why you aren't buying a Sansa.

 

[tinpanalley]

Generally, the listener makes the determination. And generally, the DAC is just a part on a chain. Source through encoder to file to player (implementation of decoding matters, equalization, etc.), to possible amp to listening device to the ear.

More generally, cheap phones have cheap DACs. Cheap DACs are generally garbage DACs. And you have your situations where they would matter reversed, I imagine. A FLAC has a better shot a good digital to analog conversion since it has so much more information. A garbage-encoded lossy (I'm talking about low bitrates, not that lossy encoding is garbage) is much more likely to suffer from a poor DAC.

Ok, all that makes perfect sense. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Since this thread starts off with a dead Cowon, and heavy considerations given to Fiio, it doesn't seem a stretch to assume that you want a good listening experience

Precisely.

I would get either a high end, high capacity smartphone (if you really want a single device and are due for a phone upgrade)

I could never listen to music on the device I use as a phone. An old phone, sure, but the one I need all day to be my productivity device/phone? No.

Fiio is still a solid recommend. That is, if you aren't still dead set against Fiio over album art. If you just want price over anything else, I don't see why you aren't buying a Sansa.

I'm beginning to just accept that the Fiio is my best bet. Price isn't the be all to end all but, why not a Sansa?..because I know nothing about them that's all and the only ones I've seen are tiny ones that have hardly any screen at all.

I know the screen thing on the Fiio is ridiculous. But if the general consensus I'm getting is that for my needs, anything I can afford for 100 or so will be fine, then I figure why not look at ones where I like the UI. The Cowon X9 is fine to me I just figured it was a chance to try another make and get away from that touch screen experience.

 

[Oyeve]

Ok. And what determines a garbage DAC from a good one? And to what extent does that depend on the file being listened to? I'm sure it matters for 24bit 192kHz audio but does it really matter for 16-44?

Its pretty night and day for me. My LGV10 sounds PHENOMENAL when I compare it to the S7 Edge. Even for low quality audio. It's that much better.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Price isn't the be all to end all but, why not a Sansa?..

I've got a Sansa Fuze+ and my LG Fuel with viper4android is superior hands down. The only reason I use the Fuze+ anymore is for the FM tuner for when I'm outside of any wifi.

Edit: And just to be clear, that's not really a knock on the Sansa. I actually do use it for the FM tuner quite often and it does sound good, but if I had a phone with a tuner and viper4android it would be sitting forgotten in a drawer.

Edit 2: And no offense to anyone, but every time I see a DAC touted as some be-all-end-all to sound quality I can't help but see it as just more of the snake oil that's so prevalent in the audio world. I've never pinpointed bad sound to bad a DAC, it's always been headphones, EQ, or source material. If there's some research or example that shows otherwise please post it. But a DAC either reliably approximates the source or it doesn't, and I have to think over the years bad DAC's that don't have long been weeded out, even "cheap" ones.

 

[gorcorps]

Check out the xduoo... There's both an x2 and x3. It might be another option, as they're both pretty low cost it seems

Did you check these out yet OP?

http://www.amazon.com/Xduoo-X3-Portable-Resolution-Lossless/dp/B015W5XQTY