Looking for advice for a fileserver on the cheap

[MasamuneXGP]

Greetings all. I'm looking to build a fileserver. Currently, my plan is to wait until early March to actually start buying stuff, and get it set up over spring break. But I'd like to do some preliminary research. My goal is to spend less than $200 on the non-harddrive parts.

Firstly, I've already got my hands on a lovely Areca 8-port PCI-E RAID card. Meaning the motherboard needs a PCI-E x16 slot. Also, for obvious reasons, I want a gigabit LAN port (I've already got a gigabit switch). Can anyone recommend me a good motherboard that has these qualities that's within my price range?

Also, since the card has 8 ports, I want a case that can fit 8 drives (eventually). This is probably just a matter of looking for a good deal and snapping one up when I find one, but anything in particular I should be looking for?

The other thing I'm not sure about is power. Assuming I eventually max the card out with all 8 drives, how much power would be sufficient?

Finally, unrelated with the build but... are hard drive prices expected to fall between now and March? Part of the reason I'm waiting on this is because I'm hoping the terabyte drive prices will drop a bit (that Samsung F1 has me salivating). At this point it's looking like I should probably go with 750's though =

Thanks for the input!

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

What Areca card do you have? Just wondering--I love mine. What is your budget for the case? Is that $200 for everything except storage related? I have two of these Supermicro SATA enclosures, one in my current system, one on standby in my big case, and they are great for hot-swapping hard drives out in case one goes bad and needs to be replaced in the array. You should be able to find cheaper versions if they are a bit out of your budget though. Also, what kind of video card are you planning on using? Not all motherboards like having a non-graphics card in the PCIe x16 slot. I can confirm that the Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus will handle an 8X RAID controller in the PCIe x16 slots. Check my sig if you want to see what all I'm running. Also, I have a 620w Corsair PSU running my machine (currently 8 hard drives). If you are going to use a simple video card or onboard video, then PSU usage will be much lower.

Also, what are you going to be using for your OS? And is this going to be just a cheap file server, or will it share other duties?

 

[MasamuneXGP]

I'm actually running a ARC-1210 (the 4 port version) in my rig right now. I have a ARC-1220 in a box on my shelf waiting to be used. I'm planning on selling the 4 port one once I get the server set up.

Those SATA enclosures *do* look pretty hot... but yeah they're somewhat pricey. It seems like something I should probably consider for later, since I'm really trying to save as much money as possible for the drives.

As for video card, well, I wasn't planning on *any* video card really. Maybe a cheap PCI video card that I have lying around the house just to set it up initially, but after I get it set I was hoping I could run it headless via VNC or a web-based interface or something.

As for OS, I'm somewhat undecided. I've heard good things about Samba, but I'm still looking around.

Please explain what you mean by "cheap file server" as opposed to "sharing other duties". I plan to use this thing to store files for the four different computers in my home. Sure I'd like it be as fast as possible, but other than that...

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: MasamuneXGP
I'm actually running a ARC-1210 (the 4 port version) in my rig right now. I have a ARC-1220 in a box on my shelf waiting to be used. I'm planning on selling the 4 port one once I get the server set up.

Those SATA enclosures *do* look pretty hot... but yeah they're somewhat pricey. It seems like something I should probably consider for later, since I'm really trying to save as much money as possible for the drives.

As for video card, well, I wasn't planning on *any* video card really. Maybe a cheap PCI video card that I have lying around the house just to set it up initially, but after I get it set I was hoping I could run it headless via VNC or a web-based interface or something.

As for OS, I'm somewhat undecided. I've heard good things about Samba, but I'm still looking around.

Please explain what you mean by "cheap file server" as opposed to "sharing other duties". I plan to use this thing to store files for the four different computers in my home. Sure I'd like it be as fast as possible, but other than that...

Cheap file server meaning you aren't gaming on it or anything. Guess I shouldn't have said cheap necessarily. I would look at getting a machine off of FS/T--you basically need a complete system with a large case and a motherboard that has a PCIe 16x slot. Finding all the parts brand new all for under $200 would be a challenge. Even the smallest budget machines I've priced (for a cheap file server actually) were $258.

 

[MasamuneXGP]

Well, if I have to spend more, I have to spend more. I still need some information though, specifically:

1) Do I want Intel or AMD? I know AMD's probably cheaper but does Intel have an outperforming Celeron chip in my price range? Furthermore, does CPU power even *matter* for a fileserver? What is it even used for?

2) How much memory is enough? I'm thinking either 1 or 2 GB. I assume server OSes use the memory for caching and stuff, but I don't know... would 1GB as opposed to 2 be noticeable?

3) How much power do I need for a system like this with 8 drives and no video card? As it happens, I have that Corsair 620w PSU in my main rig as well. It's a great PSU, but I'd rather not buy something that expensive twice if it isn't necessary...

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: MasamuneXGP
Well, if I have to spend more, I have to spend more. I still need some information though, specifically:

1) Do I want Intel or AMD? I know AMD's probably cheaper but does Intel have an outperforming Celeron chip in my price range? Furthermore, does CPU power even *matter* for a fileserver? What is it even used for?

2) How much memory is enough? I'm thinking either 1 or 2 GB. I assume server OSes use the memory for caching and stuff, but I don't know... would 1GB as opposed to 2 be noticeable?

3) How much power do I need for a system like this with 8 drives and no video card? As it happens, I have that Corsair 620w PSU in my main rig as well. It's a great PSU, but I'd rather not buy something that expensive twice if it isn't necessary...

get onboard video... a file server doesnt really need a great videocard unless your going to have it double a something.

Cheap + areca??? i know you have the card.. but thats kinda funny. Kinda like my quadcore NAS.

As for PSU, id get something quite large. For me, my NAS is almost on the level as mission critical server. Meaning i dont want to skimp on parts which can cause failure or have it experience a downtime for using sub par eq. Also the PSU is one thing on a computer that can take EVERYTHING with it when it dies.. and some of my data is irreplaceable.

Maybe a better route for you might just be adding simple NAS units which have 1gb enet port. You'll probably end up spending the same on the enclosure then building one up from ground.


Lastly 200 on the case that can take 8 hard drives and cool them properly + hardware [minus drives] will be very difficult to pull off. Cases for that calibur probably start at 80-90 which leaves less then 100 [shipping and tax] for your board + cpu + psu + 1 optical.

 

[JackMDS]

Do not waste your time on taking the gamer approach to Networking and Servers.

Any computer that is P-III 1GHz or above with 1GB RAM, and Giga Network card would do as a File Server.

It is more imported to concentrate on the OS and additional server functions.

 

[MasamuneXGP]

Okay, here's a quick shopping list I put together, sans case which I'm still looking around for:

GIGABYTE GA-MA69VM-S2 Micro ATX Motherboard
AMD Sempron LE-1150 2.0GHz CPU
Corsair DDR2 675 1GB Memory
Corsair 450w PSU

Anything look too extravagant? Is 450w for the PSU too much? Too little? Also I'm worried about the memory... 1gb seems so tiny, and I've heard that memory is important for fileservers, especially when you've got 4 computers using them...

That list totals to about $190, and even if I go with those four, I'm actually pretty sure if I shop around I can find better prices on a few of them. So I think if I skimp on the case I could actually meet my $200 goal, or at least come close. Of course, I'll probably get screwed on shipping ;x

Thanks guys

 

[Madwand1]

For $9 more, you could get a motherboard with gigabit off the PCI bus.

E.g the MSI K9NGM3-FIH

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130132

1.8v dual-channel RAM. e.g:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820134116

 

[MasamuneXGP]

What do you mean "off the PCI bus"?

Also, two sticks of RAM is always better than one?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: MasamuneXGP
What do you mean "off the PCI bus"?

The Gigabyte has a PCI-based gigabit NIC, the MSI doesn't. Using something that's no on the PCI bus is generally preferred because the PCI bus is a shared resource with somewhat limited performance. PCI-based gigabit NICs also tend to be older, so there potential advantages with newer NICs.

That said, the details of this NIC or that NIC or this or that bus aren't really critical at the entry level, so this is more of a good design principle in my view.

http://episteme.arstechnica.co...9092836/m/942004459831

Originally posted by: MasamuneXGP
Also, two sticks of RAM is always better than one?

"Always better" is always debatable. But dual channel allows faster speed in modern devices, as two channels can be accessed at the same time.

Again, this is not critical at this level / for this purpose, but getting 1.8v RAM is important/beneficial in some cases, and if you can get dual-channel at the same time for around the same cost (if not less in some cases) and get better potential speed, then why not?

 

[MasamuneXGP]

How do I find out if a given motherboard has a PCI-based NIC? I don't see anything to that effect in the specs...

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: MasamuneXGP
How do I find out if a given motherboard has a PCI-based NIC? I don't see anything to that effect in the specs...

They don't make it easy for you (esp. when it's PCI for example -- nothing to brag about), but you can generally dig such information up if you try.

http://www.realtek.com.tw/prod...evel=5&Conn=4&ProdID=9

The Realtek RTL8110SC(L) LOM Gigabit Ethernet controllers (RTL8110SC (128 QFP) & RTL8110SCL (128 LQFP)) combine a triple-speed IEEE 802.3 compliant Media Access Controller (MAC) with a triple-speed Ethernet transceiver, 32-bit PCI bus controller, and embedded memory.

 

[piasabird]

Might want to ask how many people will access the file server and what kind of files are we talking about.

Data Files
Audio Files
Graphics
Video
Database

Size and throughput matter in design.

Operating system? You plan on using XP Professional or something like a Windows Server or maybe a Free Linux version?

Dont know too much about RAID other than concepts.

What about backup systems?

Here is an interesting article I was reading:

http://www.xav.com/scripts/misc/1016.html

This article discusses how it was built and problems encountered. It looks like a configuration where you have 4 drives for one raid and then another four drives for the raid backup and then you have to have an additional drive for ? Oper System? That is a lot of data and power supply lines going back in forth in a Tower case.

The other thing to think about is how to keep all the drives cool enough if you have to really pack in that many drives. So the case design is really important.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Here is an interesting article I was reading:

http://www.xav.com/scripts/misc/1016.html

Doesn't seem like a special or good design to me. However, it's around 4 years old with some parts which are even older, so the builder didn't have the advantages of newer parts and technology that we do now.

The point about backups is a good one. Constraining the overall project / budget / space together with backup needs/capacity is better than building the biggest server possible without any backup, running a chance of losing everything at once.

 

[MasamuneXGP]

Originally posted by: Madwand1
They don't make it easy for you (esp. when it's PCI for example -- nothing to brag about), but you can generally dig such information up if you try.

Ah, so I want one that's on the PCI Express bus, not the regular PCI bus. Got it.

Originally posted by: piasabird
Might want to ask how many people will access the file server and what kind of files are we talking about.

The most heavy user will be me; I plan on using it primarily for video and audio files, but also text/data files and graphics to a lesser extent.

There are also three other computers in my home used by other members of my family. They aren't what I'd call power users, but they do have multimedia needs, and are beginning to expect files to be accessible on whichever computer they happen to be using.

About that actually, one idea I've been toying with is to set the three other computers' Desktop directory each to a separate folder on the fileserver. That'd be the most seamless way for them to interact with it. Any reason that wouldn't be a good idea?

Originally posted by: piasabird
What about backup systems?

That's another thing I've been worrying about. I'm wondering if it's worth it to run Windows XP on the thing just so I'd be able to run Mozy on it. Optimally, I'd want Mozy running on *my* computer (since I plan to be running things in RAID 0 once the fileserver is up), and back things up from the fileserver from here. Unfortunately Mozy refuses to support shared folders. It certainly has me investigating the possibility of emulating a hard drive somehow to sidestep this restriction...

In any case, I'm probably going to go with Samba or Window Server or some other server OS.

 

[aigomorla]

my computers are controlled via remote.

I use PCAnywhere. Only problem is my copy i bought isnt vista compatiable and i dont want to buy new licences so i just refuse to use vista.

But they work great when i need to control it, and my boxes dont even require a keyboard mouse and monitor after everything is setup.

And i just use windows file sharing and just map the drive on my main.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

For remote access, check out LogMeIn. Works over port 80, so you can bypass firewalls and everything. Great little program. Data entry via logmein isn't as smooth as RDC, but it works on every machine.

Also, for access files / folders on other computers, check out Hamachi. It's a zero-configuration VPN. You essentially setup a VLAN, and files shared on those machines become available on that network. Very useful. Oh, and both are free (they do have paid version with more features, but the free versions are functional and work great).