I went to the local Staples, and while they didn't have the i950 in stock. They can order it for $249. Only $20 over newegg price, and any problems, and it could be returned locally.
I think I'll pick one up next week.
well i am lookign for the i850 or the i560.
gotta be a local stor (boston, ma)
cause i need it by sunday
gotta be a local stor (boston, ma)
cause i need it by sunday
If you are interested in serious printing of photographs I would recommend only using the manufacturers ink and quality, name brand paper. If you just want goo pictures, generic is cool.
A good place online for ink and paper is www.atlex.com.
A good place online for ink and paper is www.atlex.com.
i own the i850 and it prints really nice photos. It does a great job of black and white text printing also. The only place that it sucks big in is color printing (ie. images from the web). Overall, I highly recommend it.
RE:"The only place that it sucks big in is color printing (ie. images from the web)."
You don't suppose that could be that the images off the web are low resolution do you? <G> They have to be to keep down the page load. If you made web pages you'd know you try to get the page size under 50k. That doesn't leave much for pictures. Often only 1-2k.
Mac
You don't suppose that could be that the images off the web are low resolution do you? <G> They have to be to keep down the page load. If you made web pages you'd know you try to get the page size under 50k. That doesn't leave much for pictures. Often only 1-2k.
Mac
I got an i850 today. Actually it is an i850s from Sam's (Identical printer, i850s is only sold at Sam's), paid $118 and USB cable and 4x6 photo paper was included. I was satisfied with my aging HP 812c, but just hoping for a little crisper photos. MAN! I am really impressed. It prints beyond what I thought an inkjet type printer was capable of! I realize that the i950 is supposed to be better, I can't imagine what could be improved. I did see the loss of print quality on color(web page type) printing, but it is still not bad, and what I would expect printing in draft mode on plain paper. Not too bad at all for a 3page color document ready in 15 seconds. Thanks to anyone here who suggested to buy this printer. It was $118 well spent.
I have a canon i950. very nice printer. i have had it like 5 months, it hasn't clogged once. I refill my own cartridges, they come out to about $1 each refill
Proud Canon i550 owner... will never go back to HP. I like the speed that this machine works at and the picture quality, even with normal paper!
CANON I560-the best bang for the buck. martind1, you might want to check on a printer for yourself. Yours is mixing letters up something awful. Just kidding!!
ya i get the drift of this message that thew i560, i850, i950 are good. i get that, i am looking to buy it.
Stop making universal unsubstantiated statements like that. If a person only saw your posts, they'd think Canon was god and everybody else was with the devil. Epson has some nice inks (consider the long life of the inks used in the 2200 and some of their other wide inkjets); I'd like to see Canon beat that. Nevertheless, on the cheaper side of things, where you're not going to be printing a lot (in that case, the Epson's tendency to clog the heads when not used frequently would be A Bad Thing), the Canon printer is probably better.
RE:"Stop making universal unsubstantiated statements like that. If a person only saw your posts, they'd think Canon was god and everybody else was with the devil. Epson has some nice inks (consider the long life of the inks used in the 2200 and some of their other wide inkjets); I'd like to see Canon beat that. Nevertheless, on the cheaper side of things, where you're not going to be printing a lot (in that case, the Epson's tendency to clog the heads when not used frequently would be A Bad Thing), the Canon printer is probably better>
I've been through tons of printers. As far a cheap printing alternatives...CANON IS GOD.
OTOH, Epson would be my second choice. Epsons print very nice too so do HPs...but that is really not what is question here.
What is in question is the little tricks HP (like say your out when you have 40% left) and EPSON (chips) do to sell you INK for ridiculous prices...In Epsons case it's a chip on the cartridge. Oh brother. HPs don't refill well at all and Epsons aren't great either. We also run continuous feed Canons and the rarely if ever clog. OTOH, we tried it with Epsons and we just have problems...clogging, streaking etc. Also, Chip setters? Come on...
I'm really sorry you missed the point. We don't like paying $11,000 a gallon for ink...it's like getting the razor for free and paying $30 for a razor blade.
Basically that's where I'm coming from...
On top of that the i560, i850 and i950 print phenomenal photos. One Epson does come close.
As far a fading...nothing holds up in sunlight. BUT if you put it behind glass WHICH FILTERS OUT ULTRA VIOLET LIGHT it will last a long time. (funny how HP tells you about "glass"). Then AGAIN, you can always reprint the picture in the future when you have an even better!
Mac
PS...Yes, I do a lot of inkjet printing. Never worry about using ink now either...
RE:" If you do any amount of printing you'll be glad you got a Canon once you know the system. The cartridges are clear (BCI-3's and 6's) so you can see how much ink you have and they are individually replaceable and easily refillable."
I've been through tons of printers. As far a cheap printing alternatives...CANON IS GOD.
OTOH, Epson would be my second choice. Epsons print very nice too so do HPs...but that is really not what is question here.
What is in question is the little tricks HP (like say your out when you have 40% left) and EPSON (chips) do to sell you INK for ridiculous prices...In Epsons case it's a chip on the cartridge. Oh brother. HPs don't refill well at all and Epsons aren't great either. We also run continuous feed Canons and the rarely if ever clog. OTOH, we tried it with Epsons and we just have problems...clogging, streaking etc. Also, Chip setters? Come on...
I'm really sorry you missed the point. We don't like paying $11,000 a gallon for ink...it's like getting the razor for free and paying $30 for a razor blade.
Basically that's where I'm coming from...
On top of that the i560, i850 and i950 print phenomenal photos. One Epson does come close.
As far a fading...nothing holds up in sunlight. BUT if you put it behind glass WHICH FILTERS OUT ULTRA VIOLET LIGHT it will last a long time. (funny how HP tells you about "glass"). Then AGAIN, you can always reprint the picture in the future when you have an even better!
Mac
PS...Yes, I do a lot of inkjet printing. Never worry about using ink now either...
RE:" If you do any amount of printing you'll be glad you got a Canon once you know the system. The cartridges are clear (BCI-3's and 6's) so you can see how much ink you have and they are individually replaceable and easily refillable."
Why Do Ink Cartridges Cost So Much?
Consumers revolt over the cost of inkjet cartridges, even as printer prices plummet.
Tom Spring, PCWorld.com
Thursday, August 28, 2003
At $22 per quarter-ounce, a Hewlett-Packard color ink-jet cartridge is more expensive, by weight, than imported Russian caviar.
Observing such high prices, Connecticut research consultant Zel Dolinsky wants to know the reasons for them. "How come, with printer prices falling, ink prices are still so outrageous?" Dolinsky asks. "I'm appalled."
Ink jet and toner cartridges are fanning angry sparks in the ink cartridge replacement market--a $21 billion field, according to Lyra Research.
Consumers are annoyed at the price of authorized replacement ink cartridges, and tempted by third-party substitutes that don't always work flawlessly.
The major vendors, including Canon, Epson, Hewlett-Packard, and Lexmark, are at odds with independent manufacturers of alternative inks. In fact, some big vendors are suing third-party makers of cartridge clones for alleged patent violations. Meanwhile, second-tier ink cartridge makers say they simply offer consumers a choice--at prices that are sometimes 75 percent below what major vendors charge.
That leaves consumers in printout purgatory. They must either pony up for name-brand ink, or risk substandard printouts by buying replacement ink jet cartridges from a generic distributor. As PC World has found, however, plenty of worthy third-party replacement ink jets are also available.
The big-name vendors say that the third-party ink is inferior to brand-name versions. And certainly, the brands dominate; together, Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark account for 84 percent of the ink replacement market, Lyra Research reports.
Recently, the controversy has caught the attention of overseas regulators. Trustbusters in the United Kingdom and at the European Union are examining the way Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark price ink and do business. In the United States, at least one state is attempting to protect consumers' right to purchase third-party alternative goods.
The Real Cost
The printer supplies industry has adopted the practice of cell phone and razor blade sellers: Charge low prices for initial equipment, then make money from ongoing fees for additional needed components. Vendors sell consumer printers at cost, or even sometimes at a 20 percent loss, say financial analysts at Bear Sterns who track Epson and HP. But on the flip side, both firms earn a 60 percent gross margin on ink jet and toner cartridges, says Bill Hand, financial analyst with Bear and Stearns.
Those numbers are not exactly true, the vendors say. HP does make money on its printer hardware, according to Pradeep Jotwani, senior vice president of imaging supplies. In a prepared statement, Epson says that it "makes a reasonable profit on both" printer hardware and ink.
Still, consumers grouse about the "give away the razor and sell the blades" business model. Hence, the birth of a market for recyclers to refill used cartridges, or sell cartridge clones at half the price of the brand-name items.
Protecting Profits
Not surprisingly, printer vendors characterize this aftermarket as a financial threat, Hand says. "It's fair to say at least 80 percent of overall profits [from within Epson's and HP's printing divisions] come from supplies," he says.
Lexmark has tried to suppress the makers of aftermarket cartridges by integrating a microchip, dubbed a "killer chip," inside its own laser jet toner cartridges. If a Lexmark printer doesn't spot the Lexmark chip inside a cartridge, the unit won't work. The only way to reuse the cartridge is by sending it back to Lexmark, which will refill the empty tank and reset the microchip for another use.
If you try to refill the Lexmark toner cartridge yourself with third-party toner, or if you use a compatible cartridge that lacks the microchip, the printer won't accept it. The microchip and Lexmark printers have the intelligence to "expire" toner cartridges and use only Lexmark goods. Critics worry that it's only a matter of time before Lexmark introduces the chip to its ink jet product family.
Epson integrates chips to authenticate its cartridges, too, but it takes a slightly less extreme approach: You can reuse its ink jet cartridges by refilling them. But a used Epson microchip and cartridge lose some functions, such as the ability to record ink levels.
Down the Inkwell
Caught in the middle, many consumers remain angry about the high cost of ink.
"I know they're in the business of making money, but sometimes you can go too far," Dolinsky says of the recurring ink jet cartridge costs associated with his $150 HP DeskJet.
Predictably, HP and others say their cartridge prices aren't high considering the cost of researching and developing the technology and then manufacturing the equipment. "These aren't just bottles of ink you put inside of your printer," Jotwani says.
He points out that HP's ink jet cartridges are very sophisticated. For example, each has 40 microscopic nozzles that precisely expel billions of ink dots across a page. HP is also fastidiously attentive to ink quality, Jotwani says, to assure uniform viscosity and color.
Calling ink prices high may largely be a matter of perspective, some analysts say. When printers cost $500, no one complained about $30 ink jet cartridges, says John Shane, CAP Ventures analyst. But since 1996, the average cost of a personal ink jet printer has dropped by 60 percent, according to CAP Ventures, from approximately $426 to an average of $169 in 2002. Meanwhile, CAP Ventures also reports, the average price per printed page has risen by 12.5 percent, from 8 cents per page to 9 cents per page, in the same timeframe.
CAP Ventures says that it doesn't count the cost of the printer itself in figuring prices per page; it's based largely on the cost of cartridges. The analysts attribute the higher per-page costs largely to the fact that the average page printed today contains more cartridge-draining graphics and images than even a couple years ago.
Ink Angst Goes Global
High ink jet prices among dominant ink manufacturers have caught the attention of U.K. and European Union regulators.
Following a year-long investigation, a U.K. agency called the Office of Fair Trade (OFT) has recommended that Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark more clearly tell consumers their likely long-term printing costs. Printer makers have until October 2003 to better communicate the total cost of printer ownership, after which they face possible OFT monetary fines.
In December 2002, the European Union launched a similar investigation. "We are evaluating barriers to entry into this market, prices, and contracts that lock businesses into long-term relationships with OEM ink makers," says Tilman Lueder, European Union spokesperson.
Both investigations stem from consumer price complaints. Overseas regulators say that the gripes also came from remanufacturers and generic vendors, who claim that Epson and Lexmark are making it very hard to make compatible aftermarket clones.
The Law and Lexmark
Lexmark is challenging the third parties in court. Last December, the printer vendor sued North Carolina-based Static Control Components, which makes and sells clones of Lexmark's microchips to recyclers.
Lexmark is accusing Static Control of contravening the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to circumvent any digital technology used by a company to protect its intellectual property.
Many Lexmark buyers agree to return the cartridges to Lexmark in exchange for a rebate. This enables Lexmark to limit competition in the aftermarket, say analysts. A judge in Lexmark's home state of Kentucky has ruled in favor of Lexmark; and for now, Static Control is forced to put its microchips on ice.
Consumer Rights Rally
A twist to the Static Control case came on August 7, when North Carolina Governor Mike Easley signed into law a bill giving North Carolina residents the right to refill any ink jet or toner cartridge. The law doesn't directly address Lexmark's DMCA concerns, but it bolsters buyers' rights.
Under the North Carolina law, consumers and businesses that have contracts with service agents can refill or use third-party cartridges despite printer manufacturers' user agreements requiring consumers to use only the vendors' ink. The bill does not address warranty issues.
European regulators are considering a law to ban printer and cartridge manufacturers from using Lexmark-style "killer" chips that leave expended cartridges unusable. The EU claims that the use of such chips just loads landfills with empty cartridges.
Lexmark declined comment for this report. But the public will likely be hearing a lot more about the cost of printing. Spending in U.S. retail stores on toner and ink jet cartridges is forecast to jump 43 percent by 2007, to $26.3 billion, according to Cap Ventures.
Consumers revolt over the cost of inkjet cartridges, even as printer prices plummet.
Tom Spring, PCWorld.com
Thursday, August 28, 2003
At $22 per quarter-ounce, a Hewlett-Packard color ink-jet cartridge is more expensive, by weight, than imported Russian caviar.
Observing such high prices, Connecticut research consultant Zel Dolinsky wants to know the reasons for them. "How come, with printer prices falling, ink prices are still so outrageous?" Dolinsky asks. "I'm appalled."
Ink jet and toner cartridges are fanning angry sparks in the ink cartridge replacement market--a $21 billion field, according to Lyra Research.
Consumers are annoyed at the price of authorized replacement ink cartridges, and tempted by third-party substitutes that don't always work flawlessly.
The major vendors, including Canon, Epson, Hewlett-Packard, and Lexmark, are at odds with independent manufacturers of alternative inks. In fact, some big vendors are suing third-party makers of cartridge clones for alleged patent violations. Meanwhile, second-tier ink cartridge makers say they simply offer consumers a choice--at prices that are sometimes 75 percent below what major vendors charge.
That leaves consumers in printout purgatory. They must either pony up for name-brand ink, or risk substandard printouts by buying replacement ink jet cartridges from a generic distributor. As PC World has found, however, plenty of worthy third-party replacement ink jets are also available.
The big-name vendors say that the third-party ink is inferior to brand-name versions. And certainly, the brands dominate; together, Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark account for 84 percent of the ink replacement market, Lyra Research reports.
Recently, the controversy has caught the attention of overseas regulators. Trustbusters in the United Kingdom and at the European Union are examining the way Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark price ink and do business. In the United States, at least one state is attempting to protect consumers' right to purchase third-party alternative goods.
The Real Cost
The printer supplies industry has adopted the practice of cell phone and razor blade sellers: Charge low prices for initial equipment, then make money from ongoing fees for additional needed components. Vendors sell consumer printers at cost, or even sometimes at a 20 percent loss, say financial analysts at Bear Sterns who track Epson and HP. But on the flip side, both firms earn a 60 percent gross margin on ink jet and toner cartridges, says Bill Hand, financial analyst with Bear and Stearns.
Those numbers are not exactly true, the vendors say. HP does make money on its printer hardware, according to Pradeep Jotwani, senior vice president of imaging supplies. In a prepared statement, Epson says that it "makes a reasonable profit on both" printer hardware and ink.
Still, consumers grouse about the "give away the razor and sell the blades" business model. Hence, the birth of a market for recyclers to refill used cartridges, or sell cartridge clones at half the price of the brand-name items.
Protecting Profits
Not surprisingly, printer vendors characterize this aftermarket as a financial threat, Hand says. "It's fair to say at least 80 percent of overall profits [from within Epson's and HP's printing divisions] come from supplies," he says.
Lexmark has tried to suppress the makers of aftermarket cartridges by integrating a microchip, dubbed a "killer chip," inside its own laser jet toner cartridges. If a Lexmark printer doesn't spot the Lexmark chip inside a cartridge, the unit won't work. The only way to reuse the cartridge is by sending it back to Lexmark, which will refill the empty tank and reset the microchip for another use.
If you try to refill the Lexmark toner cartridge yourself with third-party toner, or if you use a compatible cartridge that lacks the microchip, the printer won't accept it. The microchip and Lexmark printers have the intelligence to "expire" toner cartridges and use only Lexmark goods. Critics worry that it's only a matter of time before Lexmark introduces the chip to its ink jet product family.
Epson integrates chips to authenticate its cartridges, too, but it takes a slightly less extreme approach: You can reuse its ink jet cartridges by refilling them. But a used Epson microchip and cartridge lose some functions, such as the ability to record ink levels.
Down the Inkwell
Caught in the middle, many consumers remain angry about the high cost of ink.
"I know they're in the business of making money, but sometimes you can go too far," Dolinsky says of the recurring ink jet cartridge costs associated with his $150 HP DeskJet.
Predictably, HP and others say their cartridge prices aren't high considering the cost of researching and developing the technology and then manufacturing the equipment. "These aren't just bottles of ink you put inside of your printer," Jotwani says.
He points out that HP's ink jet cartridges are very sophisticated. For example, each has 40 microscopic nozzles that precisely expel billions of ink dots across a page. HP is also fastidiously attentive to ink quality, Jotwani says, to assure uniform viscosity and color.
Calling ink prices high may largely be a matter of perspective, some analysts say. When printers cost $500, no one complained about $30 ink jet cartridges, says John Shane, CAP Ventures analyst. But since 1996, the average cost of a personal ink jet printer has dropped by 60 percent, according to CAP Ventures, from approximately $426 to an average of $169 in 2002. Meanwhile, CAP Ventures also reports, the average price per printed page has risen by 12.5 percent, from 8 cents per page to 9 cents per page, in the same timeframe.
CAP Ventures says that it doesn't count the cost of the printer itself in figuring prices per page; it's based largely on the cost of cartridges. The analysts attribute the higher per-page costs largely to the fact that the average page printed today contains more cartridge-draining graphics and images than even a couple years ago.
Ink Angst Goes Global
High ink jet prices among dominant ink manufacturers have caught the attention of U.K. and European Union regulators.
Following a year-long investigation, a U.K. agency called the Office of Fair Trade (OFT) has recommended that Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark more clearly tell consumers their likely long-term printing costs. Printer makers have until October 2003 to better communicate the total cost of printer ownership, after which they face possible OFT monetary fines.
In December 2002, the European Union launched a similar investigation. "We are evaluating barriers to entry into this market, prices, and contracts that lock businesses into long-term relationships with OEM ink makers," says Tilman Lueder, European Union spokesperson.
Both investigations stem from consumer price complaints. Overseas regulators say that the gripes also came from remanufacturers and generic vendors, who claim that Epson and Lexmark are making it very hard to make compatible aftermarket clones.
The Law and Lexmark
Lexmark is challenging the third parties in court. Last December, the printer vendor sued North Carolina-based Static Control Components, which makes and sells clones of Lexmark's microchips to recyclers.
Lexmark is accusing Static Control of contravening the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to circumvent any digital technology used by a company to protect its intellectual property.
Many Lexmark buyers agree to return the cartridges to Lexmark in exchange for a rebate. This enables Lexmark to limit competition in the aftermarket, say analysts. A judge in Lexmark's home state of Kentucky has ruled in favor of Lexmark; and for now, Static Control is forced to put its microchips on ice.
Consumer Rights Rally
A twist to the Static Control case came on August 7, when North Carolina Governor Mike Easley signed into law a bill giving North Carolina residents the right to refill any ink jet or toner cartridge. The law doesn't directly address Lexmark's DMCA concerns, but it bolsters buyers' rights.
Under the North Carolina law, consumers and businesses that have contracts with service agents can refill or use third-party cartridges despite printer manufacturers' user agreements requiring consumers to use only the vendors' ink. The bill does not address warranty issues.
European regulators are considering a law to ban printer and cartridge manufacturers from using Lexmark-style "killer" chips that leave expended cartridges unusable. The EU claims that the use of such chips just loads landfills with empty cartridges.
Lexmark declined comment for this report. But the public will likely be hearing a lot more about the cost of printing. Spending in U.S. retail stores on toner and ink jet cartridges is forecast to jump 43 percent by 2007, to $26.3 billion, according to Cap Ventures.
Those Pricey Inkjet Cartridges, Why?
Why Do Inkjet Cartridges Cost So Much?
When you consider the retail price of Inkjet Printers, you have to stop and ask yourself why do Inkjet Cartridges cost so much, relative to the cost of the Ink Jet Printer?
There are two reasons, one is purely technical, while the other is marketing motivated.
The work of an Inkjet Printer is actually done at the print head. The inkjet nozzles and their heating, or electrical charging components, are located at the print head. It is the print head that will eventually wear out. To extend the life of the printer, you simply move the print head away from the hardware and incorporate it into the consumables - the Inkjet Cartridges. With an increasing workload assigned to the Inkjet Cartridges, the parts count increases. An increase in functions dictates the inevitable price increase.
Inkjet Printer manufacturers want you to think that using an Inkjet Cartridge other than their brand name will run the risk of damaging your printer. Since all the works are located on the disposable cartridge this just isn't so. The use of generic (compatible) inkjet cartridges, refilled (refurbished) inkjet cartridges, and/or inkjet refill kits is not a strategy for printer destruction. When the print head finally wears out, however, has nothing to do with how much ink is in the cartridge reservoir tank. It is simply a case of print head fatigue - old age. Inkjet Cartridges can be reused. How many times is an issue of decreasingly acceptable print quality over time.
Manufacturers know that over the life of an ink jet printer you will buy inkjet cartridges over, and over, and over, while you purchase the inkjet printer only once. In an effort to encourage you to choose their brand, they simply shift their profit from the sale of the hardware (which creates a lower retail price for the printer), to the sale of the inkjet cartridges. With this policy, the sale of the hardware is the catalyst for the lifetime profits from the sale of inkjet cartridges. When you purchased your Inkjet Printer, did you actually consider the retail price of replacement inkjet cartridges in your decision-making? Most of us don't, and this is considered in the pricing decisions of the manufacturers.
Because of the attractive cartridge margins inherent in this tactic, the manufacture and sale of compatible inkjet cartridges, refurbished inkjet cartridges, and the use of inkjet refill kits has grown.
http://www.1st-in-inkjet-cartridges.com/cartridgecosts.htm
Why Do Inkjet Cartridges Cost So Much?
When you consider the retail price of Inkjet Printers, you have to stop and ask yourself why do Inkjet Cartridges cost so much, relative to the cost of the Ink Jet Printer?
There are two reasons, one is purely technical, while the other is marketing motivated.
The work of an Inkjet Printer is actually done at the print head. The inkjet nozzles and their heating, or electrical charging components, are located at the print head. It is the print head that will eventually wear out. To extend the life of the printer, you simply move the print head away from the hardware and incorporate it into the consumables - the Inkjet Cartridges. With an increasing workload assigned to the Inkjet Cartridges, the parts count increases. An increase in functions dictates the inevitable price increase.
Inkjet Printer manufacturers want you to think that using an Inkjet Cartridge other than their brand name will run the risk of damaging your printer. Since all the works are located on the disposable cartridge this just isn't so. The use of generic (compatible) inkjet cartridges, refilled (refurbished) inkjet cartridges, and/or inkjet refill kits is not a strategy for printer destruction. When the print head finally wears out, however, has nothing to do with how much ink is in the cartridge reservoir tank. It is simply a case of print head fatigue - old age. Inkjet Cartridges can be reused. How many times is an issue of decreasingly acceptable print quality over time.
Manufacturers know that over the life of an ink jet printer you will buy inkjet cartridges over, and over, and over, while you purchase the inkjet printer only once. In an effort to encourage you to choose their brand, they simply shift their profit from the sale of the hardware (which creates a lower retail price for the printer), to the sale of the inkjet cartridges. With this policy, the sale of the hardware is the catalyst for the lifetime profits from the sale of inkjet cartridges. When you purchased your Inkjet Printer, did you actually consider the retail price of replacement inkjet cartridges in your decision-making? Most of us don't, and this is considered in the pricing decisions of the manufacturers.
Because of the attractive cartridge margins inherent in this tactic, the manufacture and sale of compatible inkjet cartridges, refurbished inkjet cartridges, and the use of inkjet refill kits has grown.
http://www.1st-in-inkjet-cartridges.com/cartridgecosts.htm
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