Looking for a cheap video card. How wretched is the SIS 305?

[Praxis]

I don't do any gaming (well, I play a little freecell after I set up a system until I realize I'm wasting too much time and nuke it), but would like to be able to play back DVDs, do photo manipulation, & maybe add a PVR card later. Also, I might want to throw a PCI TNT card on for two monitor display, later (I got about a half dozen system pulls for $10 a piece and they seem adequate for second monitors). Linux compatibility would be a plus, since I normally dual boot. Normally, I build systems with integrated video (e.g. KM266 - S3 Pro Savage, etc.) and that seems OK to me, however I bought a non-IGP Nforce2, so I need a display adapter.

Anywho, I saw this Apollo SIS 305 card for $22 delivered from Newegg. I've even seen free after rebate cards from Fry's with this chipset (though I wouldn't trust those Kaser rebates).
On paper it looks OK:
Memory:32MB SDR RAM
Real 128-bit 3D/ 2D Multimedia Accelerator
Integrated 350MHz RAMDAC, 32-bit Z-buffer/ Stencil
4-texels per-clock pipeline engines:
666Million-texels per second

However I could get a GeForce2 MX400 for maybe $5 or so more. And a Radeon VE for maybe another $5 & a Radeon 7000 VE for $36. Or throw frugality to the winds and pop maybe $60 for a ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder with a built in TV tuner. Any words of wisdom or other suggestions, including retailers?

Much grass,

Praxis

 

[MercenaryForHire]

If you're going to go for PVR in the end, just nab the AIW now. The SiS305 is utter ass compared.

- M4H

 

[spanky]

i would do the radeon ve for $5 more.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: Praxis
Linux compatibility would be a plus, since I normally dual boot. ... I bought a non-IGP Nforce2, so I need a display adapter.

2 things you need to think about:

1) Nvidia rules Linux
2) Only Nvidia AGP cards will work on the Nforce2 under Linux (Nvidia is working on a solution)

I recommend the MX440.

 

[Schadenfroh]

666Million-texels per second

Does that make it evil?:evil:

 

[Praxis]

AnonymouseUser, do you mean you can't even get X to work with the Nforce2 and an ATI or Matrox AGP card in framebuffer mode, or whatever it is called, or rather, that as of now only the Nvidia 3D drivers work with Lin on the Nforce2? Frankly, I could wait a long time just to get 3D support, since, as I mentioned, I don't game much at all. Even the cheesiest 4X AGP 64 MB MX440 would run be about $40, which is quite a chunk. Since I'm not a gamer, wouldn't a 32 MB MX400 be about the same for my porpoises?

MercenaryForHire makes a good point about the Radeon AIW. For only $20 more than an MX440 I could buy a PCI ATI Radeon 7000 32MB DDR All-In-Wonder. I wonder if the agpgart module has to load to get the TV functionality to work with the Radeon in Linux. I know my cheapo $20 ATI TV-Wonder VE card works with SuSE 7.2 & RH 7.3 and my equally frugal TNT2 card on my Epox KT133A board.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: Praxis
AnonymouseUser, do you mean you can't even get X to work with the Nforce2 and an ATI or Matrox AGP card in framebuffer mode, or whatever it is called, or rather, that as of now only the Nvidia 3D drivers work with Lin on the Nforce2? Frankly, I could wait a long time just to get 3D support, since, as I mentioned, I don't game much at all. Even the cheesiest 4X AGP 64 MB MX440 would run be about $40, which is quite a chunk. Since I'm not a gamer, wouldn't a 32 MB MX400 be about the same for my porpoises?

From the Nvidia nForce README:

Q: Is NVIDIA going to supply a Linux AGPGART driver for nForce products so that I can use my non-NVIDIA card in 3d accelerated mode under Linux?

A: NVIDIA is aware of this limitation in our nForce Linux driver package, and we hope to provide a workable solution in the future.

AFAIK, 2d will work just fine, just not 3d. I recommended the GF4 simply because it is better overall than the GF2 (sorry, I tend to spend more money when it isn't my money ). The GF2 would do just fine.

 

[JeremiahTheGreat]

I have a SIS305.. and yes, its utter crap especially the 2D. Forget the 3D, barely faster than a Voodoo 1.

 

[rogue1979]

Pick up an old RagePro 32MB for a few dollars. Slow gaming but excellent 2D quality.

 

[Praxis]

Unfortunately according to PriceWatch, a 32 MB RagePro runs about $25.70 delivered. That puts me into GeForce2 MX400 territory. However the ATI XPert 98 8MB AGP is only $18, about the same price as an 8 MB TNT2.

I figure 8 MB is enough to run a 17" monitor at 1600x1200 or a 19" at 1280x1024. Beyond that requirement, would more display adapter memory be much benefit to 2D performance?

Strangely, the video card is one computer component that seems somewhat resistant to the tendancy to fall rapidly in price, though I remember a few years ago $30-40 was considered a decent price for the ATI XPert 98 8MB AGP.

 

[Peter]

Sorry, the RagePro can't go that high up in pixel clock.
The SiS 305 in turn can; analog output quality depends on the card designs not on the chip used.
If you want good 2D without the price, try to find a bargain on a genuine ATi Radeon VE aka 7000. That'll sneak you onto an actively maintained driver set as well, since the 7000 is the oldest part still supported by ATi's current software.

 

[acemcmac]

make sure that if you choose a SiS chipset for video that you are serious about NEVER doing any kind of gaming. I have a friend with an Xabre card and it just ended up a 150$ paperweight the driver support was so terrible. I think it was the slowest 3dmarking 128meg board ever... sub 6000 sometimes.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

welll i got this godforsaken card , and it was an ECS verison. The worst 2D i've ever seen, maybe it was just my card. But i suggest getting an ati anything over this card.

 

[Praxis]

Thanks for the advice, folks. I ended up buying a 64 MB AGP Geforce2 MX 400 for $29 and tax at a computer show. Pricewatch has the card for $1 more. I would have liked to have found a Radeon VE for $14-20 at Office Depot (they are apparently on clearance in some parts of the country), but wasn't able to find the AGP model in stock locally. I ended up getting what I could find the best deal on at a computer show, rather than ordering the best part on-line.

Frankly, I kind of soured on the whole notion of buying a board without onboard video now. I could have got a IGP Nforce2 mobo with Geforce4 MX or faster (depending upon my memory speed) video for less than the price of the SPP Nforce2 motherboard and a Geforce2 MX. Live & learn. Anyone know when Via is going to update the KM266 chipset (which is basically a KT266A with onboard video) to something with 166 FSB support?

 

[Peter]

KM400 is coming down the manufacturing pipe already. FSB200 support, new graphics engine (S3 UniChrome).

 

[RobsTV]

Frankly, I kind of soured on the whole notion of buying a board without on-board video now. I could have got a IGP Nforce2 mobo with Geforce4 MX or faster (depending upon my memory speed) video for less than the price of the SPP Nforce2 motherboard and a Geforce2 MX. Live & learn. Anyone know when Via is going to update the KM266 chipset (which is basically a KT266A with onboard video) to something with 166 FSB support?

Have also built several systems with built-in video, like the ones you mentioned.
Biostar used the S3 Savage 3d, which still sucked for 3d.
But, the Asus A7N266-VM board that pops up once in a while from Newegg for $39 delivered, (refurb, normal delivered
price $71) uses nVidia graphics, and is more than twice as fast as the S3 Savage. It will actually run every 3d game out
there (some only at 800x600). After adding a jumper mod, board runs fine at 160Mhz fsb. Speed limit above that is because
of onboard video. SB gets too hot, and errors occur. Adding better SB cooling helps, but above 160MHz that gain isn't
worth the extra trouble with this $39 board. KT266A is more than capable of 166MHz, and many hit 200Mhz (Epox 8kha+).
Dolby audio is another nice feature of this Asus board.

 

[Praxis]

Thanks for the heads-up, Peter. I wonder whether the boards will actually hit the streets within the next month.
http://www.via.com.tw/en/Digital%20Library/PR030410KM400.jsp
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8853

I have an Asus A7N266-VM board, RobsTV, and it is a very nice product. The sound, in particular, is very nice. However I also have a KM266 Biostar M7VIG Pro, and for my purposes it works about as well and was a little easier to set up, particularly under Linux. And though the price of the new Asus board has dropped to as little as $66 according to Pricewatch, I can buy a Gigabyte GA-7VKMLS V4.0 KM266 board for as little as $51. (I had bad luck the one time I tried a Newegg refurb and have read too many cautionary tales.) I just wanted to check out a Nforce2 and T-Bred B combo and maybe try my hand at a little easy FSB overclocking with a board that has the correct divisors. (And I've read about folks screwing up the jumper mod on the A7N266-VM and hosing their boards.) With the KT266A if you raise the FSB to 166 or 200 don't you run the PCI bus out of spec because it tops out at a 1/4 PCI/FSB divisor? Also, is there support for 200 FSB memory timings? Epox only rates the 8KHA+ (on which I am typing) up to a 133 FSB XP2600+.
ftp://ftp.epox.com/motherboard/support/Manual/cpu-support.pdf

 

[RobsTV]

Praxis,
I had the opposite experience with Biostar and Asus.
Started out building several econo systems with the VIG, but then tried a Refurb Asus.
Don't use Linux, but do care about 3D, so it was no comparison. Asus blew away the Biostar.

The divisor in the 8kha+ has been a widely debated subject.
Having ran my 8kha+ at 200x7 with an old Athlon, and seeing no video problem at 200MHz,
then running my 8k5a2 at 200MHz, and indeed seeing video corruption at 200MHz, I can
say without a doubt that the 8kha+ does have 1/5 divider, while the 8k5a2 did not.
No other way around it.
At 200MHz, the 8kha+ video acts the same as my 8rda+ running 200Mhz, with AGP locked at 75MHz.
While the 8kha+ could benchmark at 200MHz, normally ran it at 180MHz problem free.
With that in mind, You should be able to overclock the XP2600+ well over 3Ghz speeds.

Here is a poster at AMDMB stating he has Barton running in 8kha+:

Im running it at 157 x 13 and have been gaming smooth as silk.I do have some coolers on my
memory so maybe that is helping.im running the 8khi3425 bios. When i boot the cpu its saying
i have a xp2800 installed and my fsb is 314.any help? still running great though at 125 degrees f.

Epox 8kha+
2 x's crucial pc2100 w/coolers
barton 2500 13 x 157
8khi3425 bios

Complete info in AMD motherboard Epox forums