Looking at Vista: AMD and NVIDIA drivers compared

solofly

Banned
May 25, 2003
1,421
0
0
I don't know who these guys are but here you go...

Conclusion:
In closing, its clear that both AMD and NVIDIA still have work to do on their Vista drivers. Based on our experience writing this article, AMD is in a better position than NVIDIA in this regard. First of, the features. Most of the features present in Windows XP are present in their Vista drivers, some not needed anymore are removed and some additional, Vista specific features have been included. There are some improvements we'd like AMD to address and hopefully they are listening. We did expect not all games will run as fast as they did in Windows XP, but we were pleasantly surprised to see most of our game titles (and benchmarks) seem to work just fine, even better in some regard (F.E.A.R). This situation will likely improve with time.

NVIDIA sure have a lot of catching up to do. First one is probably the GeForce 8800 slowdown bug, which they are aware of and in the process of resolving. There's that bug with Quake 4 we encountered, plus the big performance drop with GTR (which also plagues AMD drivers). Clearly, NVIDIA's driver developer team still need to focus on getting performance where they should be. However, that doesn't mean they can't 'reintroduce' driver features already present in their Windows XP drivers. We also like to see some interface touches to make things a little bit easier, those shouldn't be that hard to implement. Now, we know what some people would say. One can point out the fact that we're using graphics card from different generations has a part in this, but that doesn't explain the non-performance aspects such as lack of features on NVIDIA Forceware for Windows Vista.

Is Vista ready for games and benchmarks? We think so, but the question we should be asking is whether or not we (your PC and the drivers) are ready for Vista. We're not there yet, but we're much nearer now than we were at Vista's launch. With Vista SP1 is making the beta rounds, its pretty likely more users still holding out with Windows XP will transition when the Service Pack is finally released.

http://www.tech-hounds.com/article27/ArticlesPage1.html

PS
For the most part I don't have any problems with Vista + 8800GTX but I only play newer games on this machine. I must say though, it blows my mind how Nvidia screwed up in this department for a lot of folks out there...
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: munky
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.

i was surprised about it a couple of weeks back
--now it's really old news ... i think theInq dug further and got a September fix timeline from nvidia

things have changed
-[the other forums ARE raging ... guess where the trolls went ? :p]

in my comparisons of 2900xt vs 8800GTS OC and benches of both XP and Vista i had no problems with either OS and no real performance differences ... i game all my new games under Vista; Vista has become my day-to-day OS.
 

Stumps

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
7,125
0
0
Interesting....

I haven't had any issues with my 8800GTS under vista...yet

However my old BFG 7800GS OC and Asus 6800GT both hate vista with a vengance, they work but nowhere near as fast as when using XP.

All of my ATI's however run perfectly fine under Vista and there is barely any difference between Vista or XP...although I haven't tried my HD2900XT under XP yet.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: munky
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.

i was surprised about it a couple of weeks back
--now it's really old news ... i think theInq dug further and got a September fix timeline from nvidia

things have changed
-[the other forums ARE raging ... guess where the trolls went ? :p]

in my comparisons of 2900xt vs 8800GTS OC and benches of both XP and Vista i had no problems with either OS and no real performance differences ... i game all my new games under Vista; Vista has become my day-to-day OS.

Yea think this has been adressed already and the latest drivers include the fix.

What would you recommend to someone looking for a new video card? The 8800GTS 640MB and HD2900XT are about the same price. Which would you buy and why? Which has better drivers at the present time? Keeping in mind, I use Vista x64.
 

Stumps

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
7,125
0
0
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: munky
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.

i was surprised about it a couple of weeks back
--now it's really old news ... i think theInq dug further and got a September fix timeline from nvidia

things have changed
-[the other forums ARE raging ... guess where the trolls went ? :p]

in my comparisons of 2900xt vs 8800GTS OC and benches of both XP and Vista i had no problems with either OS and no real performance differences ... i game all my new games under Vista; Vista has become my day-to-day OS.

Yea think this has been adressed already and the latest drivers include the fix.

What would you recommend to someone looking for a new video card? The 8800GTS 640MB and HD2900XT are about the same price. Which would you buy and why? Which has better drivers at the present time? Keeping in mind, I use Vista x64.

I'd probably go with the HD2900XT, it just seems more consistant under vista than the 8800, and while some will argue with me, Nvidia X64 drivers suck donkey balls big time...they are very lacking in performance compared to the x86 (32-bit) drivers.

As soon as I can convince my boss to let me swap the Sapphire HD2900XT that I'm currently "borrowing" for a Gigabyte model, I'll be replacing my 8800GTS with it.

ATI's drivers just seem to play nicer with Vista IMHO.

But with that said, if you can only find the 8800GTS, it still is an Awesome card to use and it won't disappoint.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: munky
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.

i was surprised about it a couple of weeks back
--now it's really old news ... i think theInq dug further and got a September fix timeline from nvidia

things have changed
-[the other forums ARE raging ... guess where the trolls went ? :p]

in my comparisons of 2900xt vs 8800GTS OC and benches of both XP and Vista i had no problems with either OS and no real performance differences ... i game all my new games under Vista; Vista has become my day-to-day OS.

Yea think this has been adressed already and the latest drivers include the fix.

What would you recommend to someone looking for a new video card? The 8800GTS 640MB and HD2900XT are about the same price. Which would you buy and why? Which has better drivers at the present time? Keeping in mind, I use Vista x64.

first of all ... it is a big deal and is it is not fixed yet. i brought it up after reading about it and the guys running nvidia cards said it was well-known. Even though i never encountered it in the ten days of testing with my 8800GTS 640M OC. Evidently the 320-MB version gets hit harder.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41351
AFTER OUR ORIGINAL story, we managed to get an update from an Nvidia rep regarding the actual timeframe of the driver release that will fix the 8800 slowdown issue.

As it stands right now, fix for this highly annoying bug is planned for a release between the end of August and middle of September. My personal assumption would be that the latter date is a more realistic one. Nvidia stated that this problem is "of complex nature," and it seems to us that fixing one card leads to issues with another.

and the original story was here:

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41330
Nvidia's Geforce 8800 series of graphics cards suffers random slowdowns, and this can be particularly problematic for owners of the Geforce 8800GTS 320MB, the cheapest 8800 out there.

The problem lies in fact that the G80 GPU has some trouble with texture memory management. In many unrelated cases, this bug starts leaving textures in video memory and system memory, causing the board to run out of texture memory. Once you run out of memory for textures on your graphics card and system, you will experience a lot of swapping with textures on a hard drive, and that is recipe for disaster, at least as far as framerates are concerned.

Some games are more affected than others, it all depends on how the game engine is handling textures. We learned about the situation a while ago, but it has been two weeks and fix is still not out. We heard from Nvidia that testing is well under way, with both Windows XP and Vista - combining these operating systems with different GPUs.
alt-tab was suggester and there is even a better work-around.

i *did* buy a 2900xt ... for several reasons ... i got a great deal - $320 ... and there is the $45 "Valve Orange Box" to consider. Topping that list of my personal reasons is my CrossFire MB - i DO plan to run 2-2900xts because i believe 1 GPU is not enough for todays DX10 games at 16x10.

Now if everything was "equal" .. if i had a single PCIe slot and the prices of both GPUs were the same, - if there were no power supply issues [heat and noise are a non-factor to me ... i didn't notice any extra heat except at the back of the card - being exhausted out of my case and the 2900xt IS quiet except at full-bore which it never is] i really don't know ... they are so equal.

if i had time, i'd wait for Cat 7.8 - this month and see if there was any improvment in the 2900xt ... and i'd look at the SW bundle and warranty of the cards i was comparing.

i do not regret my choice one bit. Nor would i have felt bad keeping the 8800GTS 640M OC ... if it wasn't more expensive, etc.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: munky
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.

i was surprised about it a couple of weeks back
--now it's really old news ... i think theInq dug further and got a September fix timeline from nvidia

things have changed
-[the other forums ARE raging ... guess where the trolls went ? :p]

in my comparisons of 2900xt vs 8800GTS OC and benches of both XP and Vista i had no problems with either OS and no real performance differences ... i game all my new games under Vista; Vista has become my day-to-day OS.

Yea think this has been adressed already and the latest drivers include the fix.

What would you recommend to someone looking for a new video card? The 8800GTS 640MB and HD2900XT are about the same price. Which would you buy and why? Which has better drivers at the present time? Keeping in mind, I use Vista x64.

first of all ... it is a big deal and is it is not fixed yet. i brought it up after reading about it and the guys running nvidia cards said it was well-known. Even though i never encountered it in the ten days of testing with my 8800GTS 640M OC. Evidently the 320-MB version gets hit harder.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41351
AFTER OUR ORIGINAL story, we managed to get an update from an Nvidia rep regarding the actual timeframe of the driver release that will fix the 8800 slowdown issue.

As it stands right now, fix for this highly annoying bug is planned for a release between the end of August and middle of September. My personal assumption would be that the latter date is a more realistic one. Nvidia stated that this problem is "of complex nature," and it seems to us that fixing one card leads to issues with another.

and the original story was here:

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41330
Nvidia's Geforce 8800 series of graphics cards suffers random slowdowns, and this can be particularly problematic for owners of the Geforce 8800GTS 320MB, the cheapest 8800 out there.

The problem lies in fact that the G80 GPU has some trouble with texture memory management. In many unrelated cases, this bug starts leaving textures in video memory and system memory, causing the board to run out of texture memory. Once you run out of memory for textures on your graphics card and system, you will experience a lot of swapping with textures on a hard drive, and that is recipe for disaster, at least as far as framerates are concerned.

Some games are more affected than others, it all depends on how the game engine is handling textures. We learned about the situation a while ago, but it has been two weeks and fix is still not out. We heard from Nvidia that testing is well under way, with both Windows XP and Vista - combining these operating systems with different GPUs.
alt-tab was suggester and there is even a better work-around.

i *did* buy a 2900xt ... for several reasons ... i got a great deal - $320 ... and there is the $45 "Valve Orange Box" to consider. Topping that list of my personal reasons is my CrossFire MB - i DO plan to run 2-2900xts because i believe 1 GPU is not enough for todays DX10 games at 16x10.

Now if everything was "equal" .. if i had a single PCIe slot and the prices of both GPUs were the same, - if there were no power supply issues [heat and noise are a non-factor to me ... i didn't notice any extra heat except at the back of the card - being exhausted out of my case and the 2900xt IS quiet except at full-bore which it never is] i really don't know ... they are so equal.

if i had time, i'd wait for Cat 7.8 - this month and see if there was any improvment in the 2900xt ... and i'd look at the SW bundle and warranty of the cards i was comparing.

i do not regret my choice one bit. Nor would i have felt bad keeping the 8800GTS 640M OC ... if it wasn't more expensive, etc.

My monitor limits me to 1280x1024 and both cards handle most games today with full AA and AF rather well at that (now low by today's standard) resolution. Can you buy an adapter for the HD2900's power plug (2x4pin)? Most high end PSUs (including mine) do not have any type of extra connector like that. Simply 2x PCIe 6pin connectors that can handle SLI. I know this config works, but to overclock you need that 8pin plug...not that overclocking would be a big concern on the videocard for me mind you.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: apoppin

Now if everything was "equal" .. if i had a single PCIe slot and the prices of both GPUs were the same, - if there were no power supply issues [heat and noise are a non-factor to me ... i didn't notice any extra heat except at the back of the card - being exhausted out of my case and the 2900xt IS quiet except at full-bore which it never is] i really don't know ... they are so equal.

if i had time, i'd wait for Cat 7.8 - this month and see if there was any improvment in the 2900xt ... and i'd look at the SW bundle and warranty of the cards i was comparing.

i do not regret my choice one bit. Nor would i have felt bad keeping the 8800GTS 640M OC ... if it wasn't more expensive, etc.

My monitor limits me to 1280x1024 and both cards handle most games today with full AA and AF rather well at that (now low by today's standard) resolution. Can you buy an adapter for the HD2900's power plug (2x4pin)? Most high end PSUs (including mine) do not have any type of extra connector like that. Simply 2x PCIe 6pin connectors that can handle SLI. I know this config works, but to overclock you need that 8pin plug...not that overclocking would be a big concern on the videocard for me mind you.

Yes, i do believe there is an adapter ... all it does - evidently - is ground the 8th pin so you can OC. You can also just run an insulated wire from your molex-ground, i believe.

Personally i don't care to OC my GPU ... that is why i'd much rather have a 2nd 2900xt ... my PS should handle it pretty easily if i don't OC them.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: Stumps
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: munky
GeForce 8800 slowdown bug

Wow, I've really been out of the video scene lately, havent even heard of this bug until now. You'd think there would be flamewars raging over this by now... like back in the old days.

i was surprised about it a couple of weeks back
--now it's really old news ... i think theInq dug further and got a September fix timeline from nvidia

things have changed
-[the other forums ARE raging ... guess where the trolls went ? :p]

in my comparisons of 2900xt vs 8800GTS OC and benches of both XP and Vista i had no problems with either OS and no real performance differences ... i game all my new games under Vista; Vista has become my day-to-day OS.

Yea think this has been adressed already and the latest drivers include the fix.

What would you recommend to someone looking for a new video card? The 8800GTS 640MB and HD2900XT are about the same price. Which would you buy and why? Which has better drivers at the present time? Keeping in mind, I use Vista x64.

I'd probably go with the HD2900XT, it just seems more consistant under vista than the 8800, and while some will argue with me, Nvidia X64 drivers suck donkey balls big time...they are very lacking in performance compared to the x86 (32-bit) drivers.

As soon as I can convince my boss to let me swap the Sapphire HD2900XT that I'm currently "borrowing" for a Gigabyte model, I'll be replacing my 8800GTS with it.

ATI's drivers just seem to play nicer with Vista IMHO.

But with that said, if you can only find the 8800GTS, it still is an Awesome card to use and it won't disappoint.

I can only speak for my 7800GT card with Vista x64,drivers are working great,however 8800 cards seem to have none or some problems ,depending whom you ask.

One thing is for sure, Nvidia need to get their act together,gone are the days of their great drivers ,I guess we all remember how bad ATI drivers were,now look at AMD/ATI,personally can't say I have had any real problems with my ATI drivers either on my backup pc.

As to Vista,I find it great for gaming,still not found a 32 bit game I can't run.
:)
 

Sylvanas

Diamond Member
Jan 20, 2004
3,752
0
0
I found ATI's drivers in Vista on my second PC using an X1300 to be fine, no problems at all. However I do have some annoying problems in Vista with my GTX, mainly the 'display driver is not responding' bug when I OC my GTX, however I cannot remember having any problems when I am running it at stock. Just my 2c :)
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: Sylvanas
I found ATI's drivers in Vista on my second PC using an X1300 to be fine, no problems at all. However I do have some annoying problems in Vista with my GTX, mainly the 'display driver is not responding' bug when I OC my GTX, however I cannot remember having any problems when I am running it at stock. Just my 2c :)

The game I'm worried most about is Final Fantsay Xi which I've created a seperate thread asking about HD2900xt performance problems (if any). The Nvidia forums are plastered all over with people complaining about this game, being 5 years old having FPS problems. It is driver related because if you run XP the game has no trouble.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: Sylvanas
I found ATI's drivers in Vista on my second PC using an X1300 to be fine, no problems at all. However I do have some annoying problems in Vista with my GTX, mainly the 'display driver is not responding' bug when I OC my GTX, however I cannot remember having any problems when I am running it at stock. Just my 2c :)

The game I'm worried most about is Final Fantsay Xi which I've created a seperate thread asking about HD2900xt performance problems (if any). The Nvidia forums are plastered all over with people complaining about this game, being 5 years old having FPS problems. It is driver related because if you run XP the game has no trouble.

yes - as a mod, i noticed that :p

is there a demo available?

and what is wrong with dual-booting? i believe if i played *old* games, i would ... just as i did when i got Win2K and had to keep Win98SE to play SS2.

actually, i DO dual boot with XP ... i can't see a single disadvantage of it ... and i also have a couple of ancient aps i don't feel like updating.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: Sylvanas
I found ATI's drivers in Vista on my second PC using an X1300 to be fine, no problems at all. However I do have some annoying problems in Vista with my GTX, mainly the 'display driver is not responding' bug when I OC my GTX, however I cannot remember having any problems when I am running it at stock. Just my 2c :)

The game I'm worried most about is Final Fantsay Xi which I've created a seperate thread asking about HD2900xt performance problems (if any). The Nvidia forums are plastered all over with people complaining about this game, being 5 years old having FPS problems. It is driver related because if you run XP the game has no trouble.

yes - as a mod, i noticed that :p

is there a demo available?

and what is wrong with dual-booting? i believe if i played *old* games, i would ... just as i did when i got Win2K and had to keep Win98SE to play SS2.

actually, i DO dual boot with XP ... i can't see a single disadvantage of it ... and i also have a couple of ancient aps i don't feel like updating.

Well, the game plays in Vista fine with my current setup. I want a faster video card for other games not for FFXI specifically.

There is no FFXI Demo it's an MMORPG.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
i found the 2900xt to be similar to my x1950p/512M ... just faster.
-They have very similar characteristics ... i think if you like you 1900xt, you will also like the 2900xt [a lot]

--or a GTS [except for FFXI currently ... maybe the next drivers fix it in Sept?]

-- and i lost FF count after VI or so
:roll:
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,000
126
Yea think this has been adressed already and the latest drivers include the fix.
Sadly not. G80 cards are still stuttering in Unreal 2 engine games too.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,281
4
81
nV's drivers have been drastically inferior to slightly inferior since before Vista was even released till now, basically a year later now (since RC1 came out last summer).

Not sure why, but it's pretty obvious that for maximum Vista capatibility, nVidia hasn't been the the way to go, ever.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: nullpointerus
FFXI does not have a playable demo, but it does have an official benchmark:

http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=22

I've no idea whether it will catch the "slowdown" tpe of bug, but I will try the benchmark this morning and post results.

The slowdown isn't present in the benchmark. I asked on an FFXI related forum and someone has no trouble in the benchmark, but the actual game will crawl to 5fps after only a few minutes in the game. While an old card like mine is locked to 29fps all the time.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: n7
nV's drivers have been drastically inferior to slightly inferior since before Vista was even released till now, basically a year later now (since RC1 came out last summer).

Not sure why, but it's pretty obvious that for maximum Vista capatibility, nVidia hasn't been the the way to go, ever.

Sad, but this is kinda what I was looking for. I'm going to go with an HD2900xt then. I mean really even though it IS a midrange card (lets face it, the GTX and Ultra versions of the 8800 are not in the same class), it will perform adequately well at my given resolution of 1280x1024. I do find times when my X1900xt is slow and I do notice it in F.E.A.R and Oblivion once I start messing with the AA and AF levels.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
i found the 2900xt to be similar to my x1950p/512M ... just faster.
-They have very similar characteristics ... i think if you like you 1900xt, you will also like the 2900xt [a lot]

--or a GTS [except for FFXI currently ... maybe the next drivers fix it in Sept?]

-- and i lost FF count after VI or so
:roll:

This is off topic, but each version of Final Fantasy is a totally non-related game. The story isn't the same, characters are different etc. They sell these games only based on a name. They have no corrolation. The original Final Fantasy was supposed to be Squaresoft's last game, but outsold anything else at the time in the genre. Thus they kept going with the name as their franchise.

Anyhow Final Fantasy XI Online is not a traditional FF based game as you may know. It's online only, similar to Everquest or WoW in some respects. Without going into detail anyway. Again it originally was sold based on the Final Fantasy name then word of mouth gained more members.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
whatever you do ... after you get your 2900xt ... let US know how it goes with FFXI
[although i am just not interested in FF, i know you are ... and others must be]
--and good luck ... it IS a very nice card and i think you will like it ... ideal for 12x10 or 14x9 IMO.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
whatever you do ... after you get your 2900xt ... let US know how it goes with FFXI
[although i am just not interested in FF, i know you are ... and others must be]
--and good luck ... it IS a very nice card and i think you will like it ... ideal for 12x10 or 14x9 IMO.

Yeah I'll report back anything I find since this info seems non-existant. It'll likely be a few weeks before I can make the purchase though. Bills suck you know :frown: