Longevity: Use Internal HD or External HD More?

[larrytucaz]

As I posted earlier I finally got a backup setup going now that my PC is reading the WD 4T internal hard drive correctly. As it is, the "main" hard drive that is meant for my wife to use for accessing JPEGs etc is an external 4T in an enclosure connected to a router's storage link. In a separate room on a separate PC, I have a Toshiba 3T external hard drive that I backup those files to, using FreeFile Sync (as it can access the router's files via the router). I now also have a WD 4T mounted to that PC internally. Actually, a lot of times when "offloading" JPEGs from the memory card, I do so to that PC's local hard drives (the Toshiba 3T and/or the internal WD 4T) and then "push" those to the hard drive on the router, it works faster that way.

What I'd done in the past is use the files off of the Toshiba 3T external once it had backed up, since access times would be faster given its more "local" nature. My tendency in recent years is to use such external hard drives, whether "portable" ones or "full-sized" ones like the Toshiba 3T, for pretty much any and all data storage. However my tendency is to now use the WD 4T internal in the "backroom" once it's been updated to the backing up, and simply "push" those files to the Toshiba 3T periodically for having a 2nd backup, and only use the Toshiba 3T that way (as a "backup/backup" of sorts) and otherwise let it "rest" as it were, letting the WD 4T due any of the "grunt" work when I'm on that machine. (For "off-site" storage, I intend to get another portable HD and update it, say, once a month and otherwise have it kept in a bank's safety deposit box, something I should've been doing all along.)

Am I on the right track, or way off?

 

[Charlie98]

It's whatever works for you... if file transfer times are an issue, it sounds like you have the answer. You obviously understand the need for backup... and particularly a redundant backup copy away from the PC. My only concern is the external HDDs... my experience with them (full sized and portable) is overheating when handling large file transfers. My experience with my 2 internally mounted Toshiba HDDs (a 1TB and a 5TB) is they run hotter than any of the other HDDs in the same PC (even with a case fan blowing across it.) I would use CrystalDisk or some other program to monitor your HDD temps, at least at first to establish their temperature trends, and take remedial action if necessary. A cool HDD is a happy HDD...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It's something that has quite enough in a range of options. It can also be an act of juggling "useful parts that can be used over and over" and "cyber-junk that clutters our life and mind."

Hot-swap assemblies
External box -- often USB2 or 3, with its own power-supply and switch
A docking station for which you either insert a 3.5" device in one trap-door slot, or a 2.5" device in another

I bought an earlier model IDE hot-swap bay with caddies around 2005, and it's still being used with an IDE drive. Adding the IDE-to-SATA adapter and powering it to the locking key-switch was a neat DIY success. Then I started acquiring these, made by the same outfit:

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/Black-Aluminum-Serial-ATA-Drive-Drawer~DRW150SATBK

These are always being moved between one computer and another. That is, I re-deploy the bays from time to time, and I certainly swap several caddies in and out for a handful of PCs. there had been a line of Thermaltake aluminum boxes with power supplies for IDE-to-USB2, and I was able to convert some of them to eSATA-to-SATA. They were big enough that you could install a 5.25" ODD.

For various reasons, I needed something more compact to fit in a midtower case, while I continue to use the Startechs and ThermalTakes. I'd rather have effective ventilation than front-panel bay clutter, so I discovered this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994146

You can get 2.5" 2TB laptop or "internal drives * " and another model replaces the ODD bay with an additional 2x 2.5" for a total of four. So you could fit a "slim" ODD drive and 6x 2.5" HDDs into two 5.25" slots.

But no way am I just going to stop using the older Startechs, and I'll dump the drives when the drives take their final dump. I'm only recently comfortable with using "slim" laptop ODDs or 2.5" HDDs.

But if there's another So-Cal fire threatening homes as depicted in a certain episode of the series "Weeds," I can stick a 2.5" caddy in my pocket. the Startech SATA 5.25" caddies are heavier and bulkier. The only problem with a safety-deposit box is the monthly/annual rental and the logistics of visiting it. Not likely something you'd do in the same cycle of weekly backups.

 

[larrytucaz]

Yes, in making the initial backups, which is the most drudgery-filled part as you're talking a good 2T worth of data, I tend to break it up in parts. In other words, my photos, I have 13 years worth of them, I did not have it copy all 13 years worth at once. I typically did one year at a time, would wait awhile, then do another. The most I had it do--in "finalizing" everything, I finally marked off in FreeFileSync "J:\" on one side and "X:\" on the other, basically saying "whatever's left, go ahead and get it ALL," and had it do it overnight (it was estimating 3 hours, it was around 150G I think). On top of that, this PC is in a room that isn't always kept warm or cool, the past few nights it's been cool (around 53'F at night), I had a "space heater" set to only intervene if it got below, say, 60'F or so, and had it do that backup then.

That is the other reason I was leaning towards making the internal drive the one I'd use the most and having the portable left turned off otherwise--I often-times have my computer case with the left side paneling removed, so I figured it would be easier to keep THAT hard drive cool.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Because they are frequently used as portable devices, external HDDs often have a higher failure rate - they tend to get knocked around. Also, plastic cases with no ventilation tend to run the externals hotter. (The preponderance of external drives are 5400-5900 rpm, not the 7200 rpm that is typical for an internal drive, though, so temperatures are fine in practice.)

But assuming you get one with a metal case (better thermals), set it on your desk, and leave it alone, longevity should be similar for internal/external drives.

That notwithstanding, you can move your files to whichever device you'd like.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Because they are frequently used as portable devices, external HDDs often have a higher failure rate - they tend to get knocked around. Also, plastic cases with no ventilation tend to run the externals hotter. (The preponderance of external drives are 5400-5900 rpm, not the 7200 rpm that is typical for an internal drive, though, so temperatures are fine in practice.)

But assuming you get one with a metal case (better thermals), set it on your desk, and leave it alone, longevity should be similar for internal/external drives.

That notwithstanding, you can move your files to whichever device you'd like.

I was sure that my sister-in-law's computer equipment was all safe behind a UPS. I bought her one of those TT Silver River boxes that I still use and modify. She just left the drive and box running 24/7. And -- it finally went south. I don't think it was the power-supply, though.

You have to manage the "Safe Removal" features provided by your OS, or you can bork any thumb drive, HDD or SSD. Maybe it isn't always permanent if the device can be reinitialized, but the files must be closed and the drive dismounted in an orderly way.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yes, haha. Do not unplug a hard drive while it's doing stuff.

 

[corkyg]

Empirically, my sense is that longevity also relates to drive maintenance, My two external data drives are now 10 years old + and show no signs of problems. Yes, they are backed up, but these factors weigh in. I never fill them beyond 50%. I maintain them everyday. For several years, they ran 24/7, now they run 10 hours/day. They have outlasted two desktop computers. Also, they do not exceed 500 GB. I sense that HDDs are sort of like dogs - the bigger they are, the shorter their lifespan.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Empirically, my sense is that longevity also relates to drive maintenance, My two external data drives are now 10 years old + and show no signs of problems. Yes, they are backed up, but these factors weigh in. I never fill them beyond 50%. I maintain them everyday. For several years, they ran 24/7, now they run 10 hours/day. They have outlasted two desktop computers. Also, they do not exceed 500 GB. I sense that HDDs are sort of like dogs - the bigger they are, the shorter their lifespan.

Drive maintenance? They're sealed units. You don't do maintenance on them. You do file system maintenance, but that's different. (You can have a borked file system and lost data on a perfectly functional hard drive, if you made the right series of mistakes.)

You probably have a point about capacity - specifically, platter density.

 

[corkyg]

I consider daily optimization as user maintenance. Sort of like an aircraft pre-check.

 

[Elixer]

Empirically, my sense is that longevity also relates to drive maintenance, My two external data drives are now 10 years old + and show no signs of problems. Yes, they are backed up, but these factors weigh in. I never fill them beyond 50%. I maintain them everyday. For several years, they ran 24/7, now they run 10 hours/day. They have outlasted two desktop computers. Also, they do not exceed 500 GB. I sense that HDDs are sort of like dogs - the bigger they are, the shorter their lifespan.

For what it is worth, I have seen some really old drives out in the field, and while they are still running, I find the biggest problem with drives is bitrot (data degradation).
Sure, all your files might seem like they are all there, but, when you go check a picture or a home video or whatever, you might see artifacts or worse, corruption.

The only solution to that is keep multiple files, or, you could create recovery volumes with something like par2.

I am just amazed that it is almost 2017, and Windows don't have a decent filesystem that can detect these issues, and correct them on the fly.

 

[XavierMace]

Empirically, my sense is that longevity also relates to drive maintenance, My two external data drives are now 10 years old + and show no signs of problems. Yes, they are backed up, but these factors weigh in. I never fill them beyond 50%. I maintain them everyday. For several years, they ran 24/7, now they run 10 hours/day. They have outlasted two desktop computers. Also, they do not exceed 500 GB. I sense that HDDs are sort of like dogs - the bigger they are, the shorter their lifespan.

I'd say that's just more of an indicator of the declining quality of drives. I've for 15 year old SCSI drives that still work perfectly.