Long Island man arreested for defending home with firearm

[PeshakJang]

Dude, really you know nothing. As a 20+ year veteran The Military doesn't teach warning shots... Never has.

And I'm telling you, as a 6 year veteran, an infantry officer, and a guy who just got back, that yes, they do teach warning shots. Escalation of force.

Shout, show, shove, shoot to warn, shoot to disable, shoot to kill.

That's what they teach in the Army. Where were you?

Oh well, just because you were told to operate that way by some stupid asshat of a brass, doesn't mean you were trained that way. At least I hope not because that was not the training I received. But I can believe you had a retard in charge and that person was giving out dumb orders.

It's Army policy now. Has been for a while.

We didn't do warning shots, shoot to kill, drive on.

And maybe you noticed all the dead civilians resulting from that attitude... that's why we fire warning shots now.

 

[Orignal Earl]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090728151053AAd01b6


Do you have any idea of the accuracy of a shotgun at 100 yards? 200 yards? I'm going to guess you have no fucking clue.

Who cares, Mr. I'm pretty gun smart because of the internet. You want to clean that deer after you've blown it apart from a shotgun?
Sure, I guess if you can't use a rifle because of your crazy laws. Then the ticket and true hunter would use a bow, or go to another state to hunt, classy would be ten times more classy hunting with a bow then your shotgun.

 

[nick1985]

Who cares, Mr. I'm pretty gun smart because of the internet.

I care because you are making retarded claims that show you know jack shit about hunting. I'm gun smart because I own guns and its one of my hobbies.

You want to clean that deer after you've blown it apart from a shotgun?

Its so obvious that you are ignorant of this issue. Do you know how you sound to anyone that has hunted? You need to just stop talking.

Sure, I guess if you can't use a rifle because of your crazy laws.

Thanks Democrats!

Then the ticket and true hunter would use a bow, or go to another state to hunt, classy would be ten times more classy hunting with a bow then your shotgun.

Thats your opinion. I certainly respect bow and black powder hunting, its very challenging.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

So you'd be okay if he'd fired those four rounds into their skulls? Better a warning shot into the dirt than into a torso in my book. Lets them know you mean business and will use lethal force.

Would like to know the complete story behind this, though I'm inclined to side with the home owner.

Stories like this bring 2 types of people out of the wood work. The rabid anti-gun people that think we should all live in fear and rely on the police to protect us, and then you have the other end of the spectrum, the holier than thou, moral high horse gun supporters. The ones that say you shouldn't firing warning shots you didn't "fear" for your life.

As my other posts show, I am definately pro gun, and pro self defense, but if I can fire a warning shot and stop an attacker(s) without having to kill someone I'm all for that method.

As far as confronting groups of attackers in that number, sure thye may be armed as well, but which one of them is willing to die so his buddies can get at you?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

This was poor judgment on the part of the guy in question. He should have armed himself and stayed indoors and let the police handle it.

Unfortunately this is NY, where it's entirely possible he'll be handed a 3 year mandatory sentence.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Police are reactionary, not proactive in crime deterent.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I care because you are making retarded claims that show you know jack shit about hunting. I'm gun smart because I own guns and its one of my hobbies.

My Uncle and Niece


Proper duck/goose retrieval


Result of proper rifle usage


Rule number 3 of the internet and life- never assume

 

[nick1985]

Nothing you posted shows you have hunted deer with shotgun. You are ignorant.

Look, you are the one that dove into this thread head first talking shit about hunting deer with shotguns. My point, based on several of your own statements, is that you know fuck-all about deer hunting with shotguns. My point still stands.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Nothing you posted shows you have hunted deer with shotgun. You are ignorant.

Yes, I never posted a picture of hunting deer with a shotgun.
Because real sportsmen DON'T.
Lord, city boys....
Stick with posting your pics of your Big Black Scary Looking guns, and posting your gunfacts.
It's sure to stroke your internet ego.

 

[nick1985]

Yes, I never posted a picture of hunting deer with a shotgun.
Because real sportsmen DON'T.
Lord city boys....

Says who? You? Talking out of your ass again I see.

 

[xj0hnx]

And maybe you noticed all the dead civilians resulting from that attitude... that's why we fire warning shots now.

A warning shot that could come down and kill a civilian, or ricochet off the ground and hit a civilian? I don't know what unit you are in, but that's ass backwards from our SOP. Our warning shot was two to the chest. Then again in Iraq the climate has changed dramatically from when I was there, but even in garrison when the topic came up there was never a warning shot.

 

[xj0hnx]

Lol at a shotgun for hunting deer. That's just as silly as the picture of kid in the link with a scope mounted on his.
But hey, sure looks cool, and that's what it's all about right?

Nick is right. People hunt deer with shotguns, 00 buck, slugs good out to about 100y, not so bad for thick brush, or woods, more open area with farther targets though a rifle is ideal.

 

[nick1985]

Nick is right. People hunt deer with shotguns, 00 buck, slugs good out to about 100y, not so bad for thick brush, or woods, more open area with farther targets though a rifle is ideal.

Yep.

If you have a nice shotgun using good sabot's, your range can actually be damn near 200 yards. Pretty amazing if you think about it.

http://www.cabelas.com/p-0058610216026a.shtml

 

[Orignal Earl]

Nick is right. People hunt deer with shotguns, 00 buck, slugs good out to about 100y, not so bad for thick brush, or woods, more open area with farther targets though a rifle is ideal.

I know people hunt with shotguns, I'm saying MOST people don't.
If I'm going to be forced to hunt deer with no rifle and in thick brush or woods, I'd be picking up a bow.
But I do all my hunting now with a camera.
edit- But this topic is about killing people so best get back to topic

 

[nick1985]

I know people hunt with shotguns, I'm saying MOST people don't.

So what? And?


I probably wouldn't either if I could rifle hunt, however there are plenty of states and areas within states where rifle hunting is banned and a good alternative is a shotgun.

 

[ichy]

WTF is your point other then to hurl insults like a baby?

JoS strikes me as some kind of internet tough guy. He has an SAS logo as his avatar, but if he actually were in the SAS he'd NEVER go around advertising that fact. I believe the term they use in the UK for people like him is a "Walt."

 

[PeshakJang]

A warning shot that could come down and kill a civilian, or ricochet off the ground and hit a civilian? I don't know what unit you are in, but that's ass backwards from our SOP. Our warning shot was two to the chest. Then again in Iraq the climate has changed dramatically from when I was there, but even in garrison when the topic came up there was never a warning shot.

Maybe it was different in Iraq. In Afghanistan, warning shots were the norm, since in most (almost all) cases of engagements with hostile-looking vehicles, it was determined that the driver was just stupid. Warning shots were fired after all other EOF measures failed to stop the driver, if there was sufficient time before the vehicle came within range to warrant disabling/deadly shots.

On foot, warning shots are policy unless facing imminent danger. Same EOF measures need to precede it.

 

[PeshakJang]

JoS strikes me as some kind of internet tough guy. He has an SAS logo as his avatar, but if he actually were in the SAS he'd NEVER go around advertising that fact. I believe the term they use in the UK for people like him is a "Walt."

He spends most of his days on here trying to convince people that he's an elite SAS commander. He's basically been involved in every battle ever fought in either Iraq or Afghanistan, and has a SIPR terminal in his living room.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Yes, I never posted a picture of hunting deer with a shotgun.
Because real sportsmen DON'T.
Lord, city boys...

I have to side with nick on this one, Earl; I have several friends who swear by shotguns for deer hunting. The Mossberg Trophy Slugster is a quite affordable deer hunting weapon, very effective even in 20 gauge at the relatively short ranges you encounter in the woods and mountains in the South.

 

[Kirby]

Most of the people I know that go deer hunting with dogs use shotguns.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Police are reactionary, not proactive in crime deterent.

I understand that, but if you had to defend against 20 foes would you rather allow them the advantage of attack from many different angles or do so by limiting their access to you?

One of the truths of urban combat is he who is inside a building he knows well has the advantage. If he waits in the dark and you come through a door or window, who has the better odds? Entry limits the opportunity of an assailant, and likewise the positions needed to defend.

In other words if you are surrounded in the open you are screwed, but not if in the home.

Indoors this guy has a tactical advantage and a legal one. If they pile through a door to get at him that will be seen as an entirely different circumstance where he goes to meet them.

 

[PeshakJang]

I understand that, but if you had to defend against 20 foes would you rather allow them the advantage of attack from many different angles or do so by limiting their access to you?

One of the truths of urban combat is he who is inside a building he knows well has the advantage. If he waits in the dark and you come through a door or window, who has the better odds? Entry limits the opportunity of an assailant, and likewise the positions needed to defend.

In other words if you are surrounded in the open you are screwed, but not if in the home.

Indoors this guy has a tactical advantage and a legal one. If they pile through a door to get at him that will be seen as an entirely different circumstance where he goes to meet them.

AKA: The Zombie Scenario

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

AKA: The Zombie Scenario

I hadn't thought of it in those terms. Well played

 

[spidey07]

I hadn't thought of it in those terms. Well played

You must have missed my comment about why he had an AK. It's an effective zombie killer which is exactly how this should been treated. Except center mass would be best, no need for headshots. It also highlights that if you're going to have firearms for home protection, you had better have multiple magazines loaded and at the ready. A handgun with 17 isn't going to last very long against 5-6 determined people.

 

[Zargon]

I know people hunt with shotguns, I'm saying MOST people don't.
If I'm going to be forced to hunt deer with no rifle and in thick brush or woods, I'd be picking up a bow.
But I do all my hunting now with a camera.
edit- But this topic is about killing people so best get back to topic

I am 99% sure in IL its shotgun, bow, or blackpowder.

most deer hunters in IL are shotgun. period.

shotgun + slug can be accurate way past your ability to aim it on target without a scope

 

[Darwin333]

Lol at a shotgun for hunting deer. That's just as silly as the picture of kid in the link with a scope mounted on his.
But hey, sure looks cool, and that's what it's all about right?

Shotguns are great for hunting deer.

Assuming you are using the shotgun for shooting slugs, what exactly is silly about a scope on it?