Long idle-time question....

[KyleGates]

So, I'm going to be without power today for about 12 hours. No problem for most of the house. The one item that must have power is the ol saltwater fish tank (corals must have the light cycle and the water flow). Long story short, the only way I will be able to provide power to the tank is with a power inverter from my vehicle.

So my question is, how long can I idle away today without damaging anything? Its a small 14gallon tank so i figure i can run off the battery alone for quite a while but Im sure Ill have to run the car for a while too. Ive heard both sides of the argument....that its horrible and is akin to crossing the streams.......and that a one time occurrence of idling for a long time (4-8 hours Id guess) isnt going to do much harm at all. Help?

Edit-

Vehicle is a 2006 Infiniti G35 Sedan V6 (25k miles).....no mods.

 

[nwfsnake]

Better to do something like 15 minutes run, 45 minutes off each hour. That should be fine and cause minimal wear. Will be plenty of run time to keep battery charged.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I don't think it will hurt anything but it is quite a waste of fuel just to keep some fish warm. Can't you get a battery backup for the fish tank? How much power does it require?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Boil a kettle...

 

[KyleGates]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't think it will hurt anything but it is quite a waste of fuel just to keep some fish warm. Can't you get a battery backup for the fish tank? How much power does it require?

LOL....yes...it would be quite a waste just to keep some fish warm. Thats why my two other tanks will go stagnant for the day as they hold just fish. Its not the fish that are the issue. Its the delicate coral. As for the waste of fuel....dont care, its just a bit of gas. As for the bit of extra pollution Ill be spitting out...well, that'll be my bad karma for a day...I got the office started on a recycling plan last year so maybe Ive earned a day of evil ....maybe.

This whole thing is a bit of an emergency (breaker box about to catch fire to to being in such disrepair)......so i am a bit stuck on options. in the future a battery backup or generator will of course be on hand.

 

[boomerang]

Just don't park the car on the lawn and you'll be fine. Check after it's run for a while to make sure it's not over heating. If the coolant fan is cycling on and off as needed, it will run until the fuel runs out. Leave the air off to reduce the cooling load.

Cars are designed to run. It's running when you're driving it. It idles at stop lights. I see no problem whatsoever.

 

[LTC8K6]

How much power are you talking about? How many watts all together? Might want to do a quick back of the envelope calculation.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: KyleGates

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't think it will hurt anything but it is quite a waste of fuel just to keep some fish warm. Can't you get a battery backup for the fish tank? How much power does it require?

LOL....yes...it would be quite a waste just to keep some fish warm. Thats why my two other tanks will go stagnant for the day as they hold just fish. Its not the fish that are the issue. Its the delicate coral. As for the waste of fuel....dont care, its just a bit of gas. As for the bit of extra pollution Ill be spitting out...well, that'll be my bad karma for a day...I got the office started on a recycling plan last year so maybe Ive earned a day of evil ....maybe.

This whole thing is a bit of an emergency (breaker box about to catch fire to to being in such disrepair)......so i am a bit stuck on options. in the future a battery backup or generator will of course be on hand.

Ah, that makes sense. Do they need warmth and light? How long can they go with the power off? What happens if you have a blackout in your area?

How long does coral live anyway?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: nwfsnake
Better to do something like 15 minutes run, 45 minutes off each hour. That should be fine and cause minimal wear. Will be plenty of run time to keep battery charged.

No, no it won't. The general rule for cars in storage without battery tenders is that you should run them for at least 30-45 minutes after starting to refresh the battery. Similar rules apply here.

Honestly, this is a poor solution. A far better idea would be to buy a small generator and use that. It would use less gasoline and is designed to run continuously in a stationary setting.

If it absolutely has to be done. the best solution, IMO, would be to simply keep the car running rather than to stop it and start it all the time. Maybe give it a break after a couple hours or so, but definitely not a 15 on/45 off cycle.

There really isn't much stress on an idling engine, the worry is overheating, so check the car often and be absolutely sure that the fans are coming on.

ZV

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

I slept off some booze in my running car in April. Left it idling about 4 hours with the heat on. I woke up just before the battery light came on and the power to the radio and dashboard cut out. Not long after the motor died and wouldn't turn back over.

The alternator was probably getting ready to die anyway, but I'm sure idling it all night pushed it into the afterlife a little sooner.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
I slept off some booze in my running car in April. Left it idling about 4 hours with the heat on. I woke up just before the battery light came on and the power to the radio and dashboard cut out. Not long after the motor died and wouldn't turn back over.

The alternator was probably getting ready to die anyway, but I'm sure idling it all night pushed it into the afterlife a little sooner.

You're lucky you didn't get a DUI for that. Even being in your car drunk with the keys in your pocket can get you busted for DUI.

 

[LTC8K6]

Go out and buy a little Honda generator. You need one anyway.

 

[nwfsnake]

How many watts does your pump and lighting take? 20 or so? For a 14 gallon aquarium, it can't be much more. Assume then a 50% efficiency for your DC to AC inverter, you need to supply 40 watts from your battery. 40/12=3.5 amps. I am going to stand by my 15/45 response based on these numbers. Even a little more than this won't make much of a difference. Most car batteries are about 40 amps nominal, or more. You can probably even go 15 on/115 off and be fine if temps are reasonable and your alternator is in good shape.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: nwfsnake
How many watts does your pump and lighting take? 20 or so? For a 14 gallon aquarium, it can't be much more. Assume then a 50% efficiency for your DC to AC inverter, you need to supply 40 watts from your battery. 40/12=3.5 amps. I am going to stand by my 15/45 response based on these numbers. Even a little more than this won't make much of a difference. Most car batteries are about 40 amps nominal, or more. You can probably even go 15 on/115 off and be fine if temps are reasonable and your alternator is in good shape.

15 minutes of idling is not sufficient to top off what was depleted just from turning over the engine. I don't know why you think it will magically be enough to replenish that plus the additional drain from 45-115 minutes of running the aquarium pump.

An alternator does not supply a large amount of current to the battery for charging at idle. It will put out enough to trickle charge, but not enough to overcome the drain that was applied to power the pump while the engine was off. Your suggestion is a fantastic way to deplete his car's battery, but it's not a good way to ensure that it remains in top condition.

Remember that automotive batteries are not designed to be deep cycled. They are designed to operate their entire lives between 90% and 100% charge and discharging them much more than that absolutely will shorten their life expectancy.

ZV

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
I slept off some booze in my running car in April. Left it idling about 4 hours with the heat on. I woke up just before the battery light came on and the power to the radio and dashboard cut out. Not long after the motor died and wouldn't turn back over.

The alternator was probably getting ready to die anyway, but I'm sure idling it all night pushed it into the afterlife a little sooner.

You're lucky you didn't get a DUI for that. Even being in your car drunk with the keys in your pocket can get you busted for DUI.

But it shouldn't. It's called DUI not SIYCUI. The spirit of DUI laws is to keep people from causing collisions and fatal injuries while operating a vehicle drunk. Sitting in a private parking lot with the car not in gear and not in motion is not within the scope of what DUI laws are intended to prevent. It would be like charging someone with murder because they have a knife in their hand.

DUI laws are a perfect example of abuse of power, overzealous emotionally loaded zero tolerance law enforcement, and slippery slope.

 

[evident]

i think you need to get a power generator esp. if you're dealing w/ delicate tropical fish /coral. power can go out at anytime and if the coral blows up it can exterminate your entire tank

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
I slept off some booze in my running car in April. Left it idling about 4 hours with the heat on. I woke up just before the battery light came on and the power to the radio and dashboard cut out. Not long after the motor died and wouldn't turn back over.

The alternator was probably getting ready to die anyway, but I'm sure idling it all night pushed it into the afterlife a little sooner.

You're lucky you didn't get a DUI for that. Even being in your car drunk with the keys in your pocket can get you busted for DUI.

But it shouldn't. It's called DUI not SIYCUI. The spirit of DUI laws is to keep people from causing collisions and fatal injuries while operating a vehicle drunk. Sitting in a private parking lot with the car not in gear and not in motion is not within the scope of what DUI laws are intended to prevent. It would be like charging someone with murder because they have a knife in their hand.

DUI laws are a perfect example of abuse of power, overzealous emotionally loaded zero tolerance law enforcement, and slippery slope.

if you had the windows up i would worry more about carbon monoxide

 

[ViviTheMage]

Rent a generator...

 

[crosshairs]

Originally posted by: exdeath


DUI laws are a perfect example of abuse of power, overzealous emotionally loaded zero tolerance law enforcement, and slippery slope.

here here...I approve of this post..

 

[KyleGates]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: KyleGates

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't think it will hurt anything but it is quite a waste of fuel just to keep some fish warm. Can't you get a battery backup for the fish tank? How much power does it require?

LOL....yes...it would be quite a waste just to keep some fish warm. Thats why my two other tanks will go stagnant for the day as they hold just fish. Its not the fish that are the issue. Its the delicate coral. As for the waste of fuel....dont care, its just a bit of gas. As for the bit of extra pollution Ill be spitting out...well, that'll be my bad karma for a day...I got the office started on a recycling plan last year so maybe Ive earned a day of evil ....maybe.

This whole thing is a bit of an emergency (breaker box about to catch fire to to being in such disrepair)......so i am a bit stuck on options. in the future a battery backup or generator will of course be on hand.

Ah, that makes sense. Do they need warmth and light? How long can they go with the power off? What happens if you have a blackout in your area?

How long does coral live anyway?

Well, it I ended up without power for a mere 3 hours so it was much less than expected.

As for the coral, they depend on every darn thing (almost more trouble than they are worth). Water temp, water flow, light level and light cycles are all vry important.

How long could they go without power? They'll get grumpy and contract pretty fast but they can probably go an hour or two without any huge damage. Some are heartier than others.

How long do they live? Again depends on teh species but most can go a long....long time. Outlive a human easy in the right conditions. Others are of the "several years of life" variety.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Glad to hear everything is fine now. For future reference, if your vehicle is in proper operating condition, you can let it idle until it runs out of gas, and it won't hurt a thing. You park it next to a gas station and run a fuel line into their tanks, and let it idle forever. As long as you change the oil when it's required, you don't ever need to shut it off.

Idling doesn't hurt anything....in fact, it's the least amount of wear while running your engine will ever receive.

Just look at police cars....go to a ball game or a state fair, somewhere they are directing traffic....many times they leave their car sitting there, idling, with the radio piped into the outside loudspeaker. And people buy those cars at auction, and put lots more miles on them.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
You're lucky you didn't get a DUI for that. Even being in your car drunk with the keys in your pocket can get you busted for DUI.

I was helping a friend with some renovations to his new place. We called it quits and walked to a bar to tie one off. After getting hammered I didn't feel like sleeping on the floor in a cold empty house. My car parked in his driveway was the next best option. Can they nab you parked in a driveway on private property?

Anyway my original point is that idling long term can be rough on your alternator if it's weak, especially if you're running any high draw gadgets like a/c or heat (or heated seats).

Originally posted by: evident
if you had the windows up i would worry more about carbon monoxide

Hmm... I did sleep surprisingly well. But maybe that was the booze.

 

[helpme]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
You're lucky you didn't get a DUI for that. Even being in your car drunk with the keys in your pocket can get you busted for DUI.

I was helping a friend with some renovations to his new place. We called it quits and walked to a bar to tie one off. After getting hammered I didn't feel like sleeping on the floor in a cold empty house. My car parked in his driveway was the next best option. Can they nab you parked in a driveway on private property?

Anyway my original point is that idling long term can be rough on your alternator if it's weak, especially if you're running any high draw gadgets like a/c or heat (or heated seats).

Hmm... I did sleep surprisingly well. But maybe that was the booze.

If you were in the front seat with the engine running they probably would... In CA I believe it works by intent. So if it looks like you may have intended to drive (which could be a BS claim), they could cite you.

Put your car keys in the glovebox, and sleep in the back seat. No way they can say you had intent in that situation.

 

[nwfsnake]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

An alternator does not supply a large amount of current to the battery for charging at idle. It will put out enough to trickle charge, but not enough to overcome the drain that was applied to power the pump while the engine was off. Your suggestion is a fantastic way to deplete his car's battery, but it's not a good way to ensure that it remains in top condition.

Remember that automotive batteries are not designed to be deep cycled. They are designed to operate their entire lives between 90% and 100% charge and discharging them much more than that absolutely will shorten their life expectancy.

ZV

Good points, but his 110amp alternator will probably provide 30amps at idle, which should be adequate. I assumed that if he was really worried about keeping his car in "top" condition, he wouldn't be trying this to begin with!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: nwfsnake
Good points, but his 110amp alternator will probably provide 30amps at idle, which should be adequate. I assumed that if he was really worried about keeping his car in "top" condition, he wouldn't be trying this to begin with!

Very good point for the bolded portion.

The alternator may well provide that at idle, but I guarantee you that the battery sure isn't seeing a 30-amp charge rate. Just running the ECU and injectors can draw nearly that much on modern cars. All thing considered a car can idle indefinitely as long as the cooling system is in good shape.

ZV