London targets gas-guzzlers with huge fees.

[Shawn]

LONDON - Drivers of gas-guzzling cars could be charged 25 pounds, about $47, a day to enter the central London's "congestion charge zone," under a global warming plan proposed by Mayor Ken Livingstone.

Under the proposals released Tuesday, the most polluting cars -- those that produce more than 225 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer -- would attract the charge while the most eco-friendly vehicles (less than 120 grams) would travel free.

Other vehicles in the city's official congestion zone would continue to pay the usual flat rate of 8 pounds.

"Londoners are becoming increasingly aware of the need to tackle climate change and reduce CO2 emissions," Livingstone said in a statement. "Most vehicles that will be charged 25 pounds ... are high priced models. Those who buy them can afford to choose from pretty much the whole of the mainstream car market but have chosen to buy one of the most polluting vehicles."

Congestion zone expanding
Against widespread opposition, Livingstone introduced the congestion zone in 2003 and backed the zone's westward extension, due to start next year.

At present drivers entering the congestion zone between 6:30 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. weekdays must pay the 8 pounds a day or face a penalty of 50 pounds.

Livingstone has said although only 1 in 20 Londoners drive the most polluting cars, about 1 in 5 cars in the central congestion zone were of this type.

In August, a poll found that over two-thirds of Londoners backed Livingstone's plans to discourage the use of 4x4s, mockingly dubbed "Chelsea Tractors" after the wealthy London district where they are especially popular.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15716538/

 

[Lonyo]

If only public transport was more affordable, rather than the complete rip-off it currently is.

 

[ultimatebob]

How are they charging for this, anyway? Do these folks have to enter a tool booth when they hit the C zone, or some sort of EZ Pass system?

 

[akshatp]

Other vehicles in the city's official congestion zone would continue to pay the usual flat rate of 8 pounds.

I thought it was 5 pounds? Did they hike it up?

 

[Savij]

It sounds like a tax to raise money that's being disguised as eco-friendly. It's popular to hate gas guzzlers so lets use that sentiment to raise more money for the government. If they really cared they would expand public transport and ban all cars, but that wouldn't raise money.

 

[akshatp]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
How are they charging for this, anyway? Do these folks have to enter a tool booth when they hit the C zone, or some sort of EZ Pass system?

IIRC, Cameras at all entry ways into the congestion zone.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Heck, if I lived in London (or any place with mass transit) I would not even own a vehicle.

 

[z0mb13]

is this in zone 1?

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: akshatp

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
How are they charging for this, anyway? Do these folks have to enter a tool booth when they hit the C zone, or some sort of EZ Pass system?

IIRC, Cameras at all entry ways into the congestion zone.

Yeah, I found the web site for it. It looks like you can pay online, or get a frequent user card.

I wonder how many people don't bother paying, and get away with it?

 

[Atheus]

Heck, if I lived in London (or any place with mass transit) I would not even own a vehicle.

Yea not many people drive in - when you roll up at the tube station a train will arrive within 5 or 10 minutes. More like 2 minutes in peak hours, so you don't really need a car. It's not that simple though.

You have to take the tube into central London, because driving is too expensive, and if you use the tube you have to use the 'oyster' electronic payment system, because paying cash is too expensive. Oyster cards are used to track the movements of passengers on the tube, and as an RFID system, are insecure. Red Ken is watching you...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob

Originally posted by: akshatp

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
How are they charging for this, anyway? Do these folks have to enter a tool booth when they hit the C zone, or some sort of EZ Pass system?

IIRC, Cameras at all entry ways into the congestion zone.

Yeah, I found the web site for it. It looks like you can pay online, or get a frequent user card.

I wonder how many people don't bother paying, and get away with it?

Essentially zero - the cameras automatically read your plates so it's hard to avoid. You could take the plates off, but then if you see a cop you're doomed.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Savij
It sounds like a tax to raise money that's being disguised as eco-friendly. It's popular to hate gas guzzlers so lets use that sentiment to raise more money for the government. If they really cared they would expand public transport and ban all cars, but that wouldn't raise money.

1. They've priced it so high that most people would opt to take an alternative rather than paying the fee.
2. They've eliminated the fee for the most economical cars. That's not going to help them raise money.
3. Couldn't it be about raising money AND reducing emissions?

 

[akshatp]

Dont everyone forget, England already has just about the HIGHEST TAX on gasoline. Last time I was there it was near the equivalent of $8.00 a gallon. (97 pence per litre)

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Savij
It sounds like a tax to raise money that's being disguised as eco-friendly. It's popular to hate gas guzzlers so lets use that sentiment to raise more money for the government. If they really cared they would expand public transport and ban all cars, but that wouldn't raise money.

Sure it would. Just raise the price of the public transports. There are always ways of making money. Plus if there are fewer cars, that could mean less money spent on road maintenance. Londoners would also have more money, since they would no longer need to spend so much on vehicle maintenance, fuel, and insurance, thus they could afford to pay the fares for public transportation.


I figure that they're enacting this law simply because London is getting overrun with cars, which will also make the air a good bit less pleasant to breathe. Last I checked, humans generally do best with air that is free of carcinogenic pollutants.

Originally posted by: akshatp
Dont everyone forget, England already has just about the HIGHEST TAX on gasoline. Last time I was there it was near the equivalent of $8.00 a gallon. (97 pence per litre)

Right, and what this extra tax is doing is just ramping up the deterrent to driving. The government doesn't want everyone to drive because it's a major problem for the city. So rather than just suddenly adding huge taxes on all aspects of individual vehicles, they ramp it up slowly, watching the effect of each increment. Increase it too much, too fast, and you risk having riots. Do it slowly, and people will adapt. Eventually, they may too realize that they are getting around town a lot easier than ever before, and that the skies are clearer too.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
is this in zone 1?

zones?

wtf???

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: z0mb13
is this in zone 1?

zones?

wtf???

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: z0mb13
is this in zone 1?

zones?

wtf???

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf

That's a trip. thanks for link.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
If only public transport was more affordable, rather than the complete rip-off it currently is.

QFT. I thought BART in the Bay Area was expensive. London puts us to shame..though it is a whole lot more expansive and timely.