lol this can't be safe

[Red Squirrel]

So I shut off all my breakers one at a time (just wanted one to be up so I can have light to work on an unrelated circuit) and realize I shut them all off including the lights I wanted on, and the circuit I was going to work on was STILL live. So I shut the main breaker then it's not live anymore, confirming it was not just a false reading on my tool. I had just left my tool near the wire so I was listening for when it would stop beeping instead of running back and forth after trying a breaker.

So, looks like someone decided to just not bother using a breaker and wired something directly to the incoming 100 amp service. That happens to be in the kitchen. I will have a VERY nice light show if I accidentally short something out.

Anyone ever see a setup like this before? All my breakers are full too so I will need to free some up to fix this. Can probably get rid of a few basement circuits.

Also should the washer be on it's own circuit? It seems like a waste to take up a breaker for one outlet that is used maybe twice a week. But maybe it's code as it's a big appliance?

One of my future investments is to upgrade to a higher amp service. Only got 100 now.

 

[Jeff7]

Yeah, I think high-draw stuff like that should have its own breaker. Heck, my microwave's instructions say it should be on its own circuit, as is also the case with a lot of things that have a compressor.
While the weekly current usage may be low, appliances like that can draw a lot of current when starting up and when in use.

After dealing with some wiring back in my parents' basement, I like having lots of circuits. And I like having logical wiring. For example, Circuit #10 controlled lights in multiple rooms, and outlets in 3 different rooms, on opposing ends of the house. It was just a mess.

Now in my own apartment, when I moved in, I found that it was entirely ungrounded two-wire wiring. Nothing was grounded anywhere. The house was apparently built before that sort of thing became standard. I requested to have new circuits put in - I got one new circuit for each bedroom upstairs, a circuit for the microwave, and two circuits in the livingroom, one for my computer, and one of the air conditioner. Thanks to a good landlord, I got them.
When I got a dishwasher, I put in a new circuit myself, just for it. (The wiring only needed to be run about 6 feet, so it wasn't much problem to do. And my landlord appreciates the savings vs paying an electrician's wage.)


Maybe you should get an electrician in though to put in a second breakerbox. I would only let someone remove circuits from my breakerbox if they'd let me kill their firstborn in advance.




Having a circuit wired directly to the 100A incoming mains, yeah, that's kind of bad, unless they used like, AWG 2 wire for the circuit, which I kind of doubt.

 

[Red Squirrel]

yeah I feel comfortable adding circuits to my own panel, the issue is, it's full! I need to find circuits I don't need and take them out. Maybe stuff like the basement lights, for now. There's a whole section of the basement I'll be redoing in the future anyway.

 

[Locut0s]

Time to call in Mike Homes.

We have a situation in our basement that I wonder about. Someone who owned the house before turned one of the rooms into a Home Theatre room ( still used as such ) and installed a new breaker box with a number of new breakers. We have no idea if it's been done properly or not.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Originally posted by: Locut0s
Time to call in Mike Homes.

We have a situation in our basement that I wonder about. Someone who owned the house before turned one of the rooms into a Home Theatre room ( still used as such ) and installed a new breaker box with a number of new breakers. We have no idea if it's been done properly or not.

lol that can be a nightmare if it's someone who has no clue what they're doing. Like putting a 50 amp sub panel on a 30 amp breaker, or something silly like that. I'm sure some people have done that, and it probably works fine, but it's still asking for potential issues.

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel

Originally posted by: Locut0s
Time to call in Mike Homes.

We have a situation in our basement that I wonder about. Someone who owned the house before turned one of the rooms into a Home Theatre room ( still used as such ) and installed a new breaker box with a number of new breakers. We have no idea if it's been done properly or not.

lol that can be a nightmare if it's someone who has no clue what they're doing. Like putting a 50 amp sub panel on a 30 amp breaker, or something silly like that. I'm sure some people have done that, and it probably works fine, but it's still asking for potential issues.

No issues.... you would just be running back to the 30 amp breaker to reset it if it triped as long as the wire to the 50 amp SP is good for 30 amps.

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
So I shut off all my breakers one at a time (just wanted one to be up so I can have light to work on an unrelated circuit) and realize I shut them all off including the lights I wanted on, and the circuit I was going to work on was STILL live. So I shut the main breaker then it's not live anymore, confirming it was not just a false reading on my tool. I had just left my tool near the wire so I was listening for when it would stop beeping instead of running back and forth after trying a breaker. <--- Your first mistake, never trust your life to those non contact testers, use a quality multimeter. I use non contact testers for fault finding only, not for isolation testing

So, looks like someone decided to just not bother using a breaker and wired something directly to the incoming 100 amp service. That happens to be in the kitchen. I will have a VERY nice light show if I accidentally short something out. <--- If someone did illegal wiring you should report to your safety authority.

Anyone ever see a setup like this before? All my breakers are full too so I will need to free some up to fix this. Can probably get rid of a few basement circuits. <-- You should do a board upgrade, if you try and fix this yourself, i assume you dont have an electrical liceence due to you using a non contact tester for isolation

Also should the washer be on it's own circuit? It seems like a waste to take up a breaker for one outlet that is used maybe twice a week. But maybe it's code as it's a big appliance? <--- washers run off a power circuit, hot water and air con are on their own circuit.

One of my future investments is to upgrade to a higher amp service. Only got 100 now. <--- get 3phase power installed then you can balance the load

 

[PM650]

3-phase?? don't you mean 2-phase/split phase?

to OP: just use those double breakers when necessary. double breaker

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: PM650
3-phase?? don't you mean 2-phase/split phase?

to OP: just use those double breakers when necessary. [L=double breaker]http://www.thewoodnerd.com/images/articles/circuitSizing/double_breaker.jpg[/L]<---OP do not use these "double breakers" they arent suitable for domestic installations, they are for commercial boards, you need to book a licenced electrician to sort your power isssues

i mean 3 phase.

You have single phase or you have three phase, as far as i am aware there is no 2phasee. igas help me out here.

 

[PM650]

Originally posted by: Sea Moose

Originally posted by: PM650
3-phase?? don't you mean 2-phase/split phase?

to OP: just use those double breakers when necessary. [L=double breaker]http://www.thewoodnerd.com/images/articles/circuitSizing/double_breaker.jpg[/L]<---OP do not use these "double breakers" they arent suitable for domestic installations, they are for commercial boards, you need to book a licenced electrician to sort your power isssues

i mean 3 phase.

You have single phase or you have three phase, as far as i am aware there is no 2phasee. igas help me out here.

Running anything not designed for 3-phase off of it may create a load imbalance for whatever the source is. Split phase, sometimes called 2-phase is typical in north american homes, its basically 220V with the neutral in between, creating 110V for two lines of breakers - this also allows 220V loads such as an electric dryer.

also why are double breakers not suitable for domestic? this makes no sense to me

 

[Sea Moose]

Sorry, iam not aware of the regional differences.

these are the common circuit breakers we use in domestic installations

 

[PM650]

Well, I have used double breakers successfully in my garage box, they're the same size as the singles - they're in the box at Home Depot right next to the single's so I was as to why you would say this is all. I don't think local distribution for residential supports 3-phase wiring, but I could be wrong.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: PM650
Well, I have used double breakers successfully in my garage box, they're the same size as the singles - they're in the box at Home Depot right next to the single's so I was as to why you would say this is all. I don't think local distribution for residential supports 3-phase wiring, but I could be wrong.

I don't know anything about AC power, but Moose is from Australia. Could that be the difference?

 

[Rubycon]

You need a larger panel. If you have an electric stove, water heater and CAC you should have > 100A service already. 100A load centers may not have enough slots to accommodate many branch circuits. Installing a new load center such as the popular Square-D QO series is rather straightforward.

Three phase power is typically not available in residential installations. Most small commercial installations will have four wires (ABCN) which give 480V between phases and 277V from phase to ground. 480V is typically used for larger motor loads and 277V for lighting with HID/FL ballasts wired for such service. A transformer is used to provide 208 (phase to phase) / 120V (phase to ground) for more common items such as appliances. Most home appliances running on standard 240V service will work on 208 just producing slightly less heat output (dryer/water heater/range). I don't believe you can just order three phase power for a single family dwelling unless it's very large as in tens of thousands of square feet!

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: PM650
Well, I have used double breakers successfully in my garage box, they're the same size as the singles - they're in the box at Home Depot right next to the single's so I was as to why you would say this is all. I don't think local distribution for residential supports 3-phase wiring, but I could be wrong.

I don't know anything about AC power, but Moose is from Australia. Could that be the difference?

Yeah, your spot on.

Your power supply is 110v ours is 240v, and different rules from supply authority.

 

[PM650]

Originally posted by: Sea Moose
Sorry, iam not aware of the regional differences.

these are the common circuit breakers we use in domestic installations

you Australians & your fancy breakers...meanwhile all of our breaker boxes have the dazzling veneer of the 1980's...

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: PM650

Originally posted by: Sea Moose
Sorry, iam not aware of the regional differences.

these are the common circuit breakers we use in domestic installations

you Australians & your fancy breakers...meanwhile all of our breaker boxes have the dazzling veneer of the 1980's...

is that picture a commercial or domestic board? we get breakers like that on commercial boards

These are enew breakers that are appearng everywhere, RCD/Breaker combos

 

[PM650]

residential as far as I can tell. I guess they do use some fancy breakers for commercial in the US, but I haven't seen any in person. Maybe I've just only seen older buildings :disgust:

 

[Sea Moose]

the uk plugs are by far the best. they have a fuse built into the plug

 

[0roo0roo]

or worst, giant cumbersome, and lying on the floor become foot impaling goodness.

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
or worst, giant cumbersome, and lying on the floor become foot impaling goodness.

wow never stood on one. Big ouchie though

 

[CZroe]

This seems like the best place to ask.

My sister said that the AC didn't work when I moved into our apartment a few months after her. When it came time to renew the lease, I saw that AC was provided, so we brought it up with the landlords. They balked but eventually found a replacement. It took a while, supposedly because it was an odd size or something. This unit was a '60s or '70s unit that had been installed since the place was built. It looks kinda like a window unit except it was installed in the exterior wall at ground-level and used a different kind of plug, assumedly for heavy appliances. The unit the landlords installed is a $1,200 LG that uses the standard three-pronged plug.

Anyway, when the landlords put it in, they plugged it into a different outlet and said that they would return the next day to convert the outlet, saying something about 220v vs. 110v. I always thought that all US electrical wiring was still 110v but appliances has higher amperage and thicker wire gauges or something. It would trip the circuit breaker when we turned it on, but we expected that to be fixed when they came the next day.

So, they came while I was gone and I came home to see that there was now a standard three-pronged outlet where the appliance outlet had been and the AC was plugged into it. We turned it on and the breaker tripped a few minutes later. It's still connected to the same breakers (two with the handles joined with a metal piece), so I assume it's the same wiring. We called them back and they haven't returned in over a week.

Now, first of all, can't we assume that the newer, more modern/efficient AC with the standard plug uses less amps/watts than the old one that required an appliance plug? If so, why is it tripping the breaker? What can they do about it?

Yesterday was particularly hot/uncomfortable, which is worse because I sleep during the day and work at night.

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: CZroe
This seems like the best place to ask.

My sister said that the AC didn't work when I moved into our apartment a few months after her. When it came time to renew the lease, I saw that AC was provided, so we brought it up with the landlords. They balked but eventually found a replacement. It took a while, supposedly because it was an odd size or something. This unit was a '60s or '70s unit that had been installed since the place was built. It looks kinda like a window unit except it was installed in the exterior wall at ground-level and used a different kind of plug, assumedly for heavy appliances. The unit the landlords installed is a $1,200 LG that uses the standard three-pronged plug.

Anyway, when the landlords put it in, they plugged it into a different outlet and said that they would return the next day to convert the outlet, saying something about 220v vs. 110v. I always thought that all US electrical wiring was still 110v but appliances has higher amperage and thicker wire gauges or something. It would trip the circuit breaker when we turned it on, but we expected that to be fixed when they came the next day.

So, they came while I was gone and I came home to see that there was now a standard three-pronged outlet where the appliance outlet had been and the AC was plugged into it. We turned it on and the breaker tripped a few minutes later. It's still connected to the same breakers (two with the handles joined with a metal piece), so I assume it's the same wiring. We called them back and they haven't returned in over a week.

Now, first of all, can't we assume that the newer, more modern/efficient AC with the standard plug uses less amps/watts than the old one that required an appliance plug? If so, why is it tripping the breaker? What can they do about it?

Yesterday was particularly hot/uncomfortable, which is worse because I sleep during the day and work at night.

Ok, do you have pics of the equipment? This would help diagnose the problem. Write down what the specs on the unit are ( a silver label that has model serial and supply, and current draw)

 

[CZroe]

I guess I can get that when I get home, but the old equipment is already gone (hauled off by the landlords).

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: CZroe
I guess I can get that when I get home, but the old equipment is already gone (hauled off by the landlords).

im not worried about the old stuff, i am hopeing that there is somthing we can do to get thee new stuff started, how long till you get home?