LLC Issues

[jonpaul03]

Hello,

I currently have my FX-8320 OC'd at 4.2GHz (21x200). My Vcore is at 1.44v. The reason I bumped it so high is because of the terrible LLC options on this board. As of right now, while running OCCT, the vcore is stable at 1.404v at full load. The only time it actually hits 1.44v is on start up. I have CnQ on to downclock while load is minimal, mainly so that the voltage isn't constantly at 1.44v. Basically my question is this; is there are a workaround for this issue on the M5A97? I want to take my chip higher, but I'm worried about adding a a lot of voltage. When I enable LLC, it ramps up the voltage to 1.5v at full load. Completely unnecessary! Any suggestions on this issue? Also, I should mention that my temps are averaging 38C on full load. NB is at 29-31C


*Edit: I forgot to mention that I have c1e, c6, apm, and cpu spread disabled. I have HT at 2400, and nb set to 1.22v. I've also disabled LLC on NB.

Here are some specs:
Antec Kuhler 920 w/ AC MX-4 (using two GT-1800)
FX-8320 (DUH!)
Kingston HyperX Blu DDR3 2x4 1600MHz (stock: 9-9-9-27 @ 1.65v)
OCZ Agility 3 SSD 60GB
Asus M5A97 RV 1.xx 1605 Bios
XFX 750 XXX 80 Plus Silver
MSI GTX 670 Power Edition

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Is your LLC setting on/off or are there tiers? If there are tiers they might be reversed from how you'd think they'd work (lowest gives highest bump, vice versa). If it's just on/off couldn't you lower the vcore to offset the difference?

 

[jonpaul03]

Is your LLC setting on/off or are there tiers? If there are tiers they might be reversed from how you'd think they'd work (lowest gives highest bump, vice versa). If it's just on/off couldn't you lower the vcore to offset the difference?

There are only three options for LLC on this board. 1) Auto (up to 75% max) 2) enabled (extreme setting) 3) disabled

If I use the extreme setting, that's where I get the voltage bumps to 1.5v. If I keep this setting enabled, and manually set vcore, I can't use CnQ. I like having that option as it downclocks and in theory can improve on the span of an overclocked processor.

 

[2is]

Your best bet is to simply add the voltage you need (without LLC) since you don't appear to have an option to enable lower levels of LLC. You can try lowering voltage with LLC on. Sometimes that can cause instability at low/no load states, but not always.

 

[coffeejunkee]

If you use LLC you have to use a lower vcore as well ofcourse.

 

[moonbogg]

I don't know about AMD chips but I turn LLC off or as low as it will go on mine and im at 4.3ghz. I hate LLC and it only adds more heat for me.

 

[NTMBK]

I assume LLC in this context is Load Line Calibration, not Last Level Cache?

 

[coffeejunkee]

I don't know about AMD chips but I turn LLC off or as low as it will go on mine and im at 4.3ghz. I hate LLC and it only adds more heat for me.

Well, hate is a strong word but LLC does in fact create more heat. Did some testing with my i5 750 with and without LLC at the same voltage (so without LLC say 1.35V with droop to 1.32 and with LLC constant 1.32) and cpu temperatures were a bit higher with LLC enabled.

Thing is, at some point you'll have to overcompensate so much that you'll basically be forced to use LLC. Or just stop overclocking before that point.

 

[jonpaul03]

Well, hate is a strong word but LLC does in fact create more heat. Did some testing with my i5 750 with and without LLC at the same voltage (so without LLC say 1.35V with droop to 1.32 and with LLC constant 1.32) and cpu temperatures were a bit higher with LLC enabled.

Thing is, at some point you'll have to overcompensate so much that you'll basically be forced to use LLC. Or just stop overclocking before that point.

This!

That's exactly my worry at this point. If I'm to LLC at it's most extreme setting, and manually set vcore I have to set it so low that it's unstable at low load, or I attempt to oc so high that it actually makes sense to use that setting of LLC. Also, turning it off and using offset doesn't work properly on this board. If I set a positive offset (to add voltage at load) it subtracts it! I like using CnQ, so If I set a fixed vcore (manual, with no offset) I can't use that function. Very frustrating. Too the point where I'm considering a board with better LLC functions.

 

[jonpaul03]

Well, hate is a strong word but LLC does in fact create more heat. Did some testing with my i5 750 with and without LLC at the same voltage (so without LLC say 1.35V with droop to 1.32 and with LLC constant 1.32) and cpu temperatures were a bit higher with LLC enabled.

Thing is, at some point you'll have to overcompensate so much that you'll basically be forced to use LLC. Or just stop overclocking before that point.

This!

That's exactly my worry at this point. If I'm to LLC at it's most extreme setting, and manually set vcore I have to set it so low that it's unstable at low load, or I attempt to oc so high that it actually makes sense to use that setting of LLC. Also, turning it off and using offset doesn't work properly on this board. If I set a positive offset (to add voltage at load) it subtracts it! I like using CnQ, so If I set a fixed vcore (manual, with no offset) I can't use that function. Very frustrating. Too the point where I'm considering a board with better LLC functions. But first, I shall play around more with the vcore and what not.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Well, the difference in temperatures was very small, like 1-2 degrees. More on vdroop: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5 and http://www.overclockers.com/load-line-calibration/

These guys seem to have more succes with their 8350: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2055/14/

But the reviewers usually get a nice cherry-picked cpu, or just don't bother with stability that much. They also go straight to LLC high setting. You'd have to set at least 1.5V without LLC to get those voltages under load. Now what's better for the cpu long-term? Good question, wish I knew the answer.

About the offset, tbh I haven't quite figured out how to calculate it. According to Asus it's supposed to be added to or subtracted from the VID. What I do is just experiment a bit and see what I get in cpu-z.

 

[moonbogg]

In find LLC useless. I ran my 2600k at 4.6 with no LLC without issue. My 3930k was at 4.5 but was too hot, so now its at 4.3 with no LLC and no issues.

 

[jonpaul03]

Well, the difference in temperatures was very small, like 1-2 degrees. More on vdroop: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5 and http://www.overclockers.com/load-line-calibration/

These guys seem to have more succes with their 8350: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2055/14/

But the reviewers usually get a nice cherry-picked cpu, or just don't bother with stability that much. They also go straight to LLC high setting. You'd have to set at least 1.5V without LLC to get those voltages under load. Now what's better for the cpu long-term? Good question, wish I knew the answer.

About the offset, tbh I haven't quite figured out how to calculate it. According to Asus it's supposed to be added to or subtracted from the VID. What I do is just experiment a bit and see what I get in cpu-z.

Thanks for the links! Good reads. I'll keep playing with my settings and see what I can pull off. So far What I've been done is keep LLC set to Auto (ultra High, kinda) and offset the vcore by .07500. What this does is give me a vcore of 1.452, and at load it drops to 1.414v. Just the level I want it to be to run stable and cool at 4.2GHz. I've calculated my vdroop to be 0.036v, so I'm working backwards using that number, and getting relatively close to the voltage that I want to run at load. But again, I've running a higher vcore at Idle, which is not what I want. My temps are still very stable, only 40C at load, and ~24 on idle (ambient temp). I've been able to run OCCT for hours with no issues. I'm just getting some gaming benchmarks done (meaning I'm finding an excuse to play games) and it's stable as well. I was thinking about turning CnQ back on at this point, so I can run at lower volts on idle. But again, I'm not sure if it's worth it at this point.

 

[coffeejunkee]

It's definitely better for idle power to keep C1E and especially C6 enabled. I think CnQ is like Intel's EIST, adjusting cpu speed to load. For lowered vcore during idle you need C1E or CnQ enabled and use offset vcore. I'm using a 3570K and haven't experienced instability using EIST or C1E, C6 did cause some troubles at high overclocks for me.

But when you say .07500 offset, do you mean + or -? I use negative offset for lower overclocks myself.

 

[jonpaul03]

Sorry, it's a + offset.

I have it set up as such. VID 1.3875 v + 0.075 = 1.4625. On idle, vcore is at 1.452v according to HWMonitor, and CPU-ID. On full load, it drops to 1.416v and sometimes 1.404v. So what I assume is happening is that the offset I apply is being added to the VID to attain the max of ~1.462v. At load the vdroop is ~.036v, thus knocking it down to ~1.416v. I think I may need to do is revert everything to stock, and see what happens with turbo core enabled. The turbo core setting is 4.0GHz. So, seeing what value the vcore is at with turbo core enabled, should give me a base voltage around that speed to judge further OC'ing at. Right? It makes sense to me in theory, but I could be completely off here.