Llano APU in picture

[nyker96]

Just ran across Anandtech article with a picture of Llano APU:

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/3980/Llano2.jpg

It's the one under what looks like a heatpiped chipset heatsink. This chip must be very cool running using such a small HSF for cooling. Very impressive.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Yeah, that TDP is impressively low.

If it can run the new Aliens vs. Predator, even at low res & low settings, at a steady high 20s frames per second, I suspect I'm going to be building A LOT of Llano-based systems for friends & acquaintances.

 

[busydude]

That may be a laptop SKU. This was displayed to attract potential customers.. and Notebooks is where most of the interest is. That's just my hunch though, I could be wrong.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

That may be a laptop SKU. This was displayed to attract potential customers.. and Notebooks is where most of the interest is. That's just my hunch though, I could be wrong.

Llano is supposed to be available for both mobile & desktop systems, right? Essentially, an Atom-based 'nettop' is good enough for many people; a Llano-based desktop is going to cover most of the people who have me build systems. Looks like it'll handle BR-D/1080p playback & light gaming handily while using very little juice. SFF systems sell very well to people with efficiency apartments, hehe.

 

[busydude]

Llano is supposed to be available for both mobile & desktop systems, right? Essentially, an Atom-based 'nettop' is good enough for many people; a Llano-based desktop is going to cover most of the people who have me build systems. Looks like it'll handle BR-D/1080p playback & light gaming handily while using very little juice. SFF systems sell very well to people with efficiency apartments, hehe.

Yes, Llano is both for Notebooks and desktops. Ontario/Zacate is AMD's answer to Atom based nettop's/netbooks and Intel CULV based designs.

 

[cbn]

Llano is supposed to be available for both mobile & desktop systems, right? Essentially, an Atom-based 'nettop' is good enough for many people; a Llano-based desktop is going to cover most of the people who have me build systems. Looks like it'll handle BR-D/1080p playback & light gaming handily while using very little juice. SFF systems sell very well to people with efficiency apartments, hehe.

Yep, isn't desktop Llano supposed to come in 75-100 watt TDP with the Laptop version having specs of 20-45 watts?

 

[nyker96]

I think you both are correct on Llano, it's running at about 2.5W – 25W power consumption, probably in the netbook and notebook arena. But still, not many netbook can pull off a 20fps on AvP demo. It's also incredibly cheap to make just 35 million transistors @ 9.69mm² die size.

 

[jvroig]

I think you both are correct on Llano, it's running at about 2.5W – 25W power consumption,

If it can run at such low power (2.5W?) then that would make the Ontario/Zacate SKUs pointless. I think the scaling in TDP is closer to 25W - 100W than 2.5W-25W, so it would be in line with what has been told to us in roadmaps:
Ontario / Zacate = netbooks, low-end notebooks, nettops
Llano = mainstream laptops, low-end (and perhaps mid-range?) desktops

As far as I remember, of course. Haven't really followed the stuff closely, but I seem to remember slides from long ago point to similar information as to targets.

 

[nyker96]

If it can run at such low power (2.5W?) then that would make the Ontario/Zacate SKUs pointless. I think the scaling in TDP is closer to 25W - 100W than 2.5W-25W, so it would be in line with what has been told to us in roadmaps:
Ontario / Zacate = netbooks, low-end notebooks, nettops
Llano = mainstream laptops, low-end (and perhaps mid-range?) desktops

As far as I remember, of course. Haven't really followed the stuff closely, but I seem to remember slides from long ago point to similar information as to targets.

yes you are probably right, the 2.5-25w is spec leaked. I have seen Amd doing a demo that shows it doing 19W at load comparing to i5 laptop doing twice that amount. But of course, the 2,5w might be idling power. nevertheless, it's very impressive part in terms of power consumption however you look at it.

 

[busydude]

yes you are probably right, the 2.5-25w is spec leaked. I have seen Amd doing a demo that shows it doing 19W at load comparing to i5 laptop doing twice that amount. But of course, the 2,5w might be idling power. nevertheless, it's very impressive part in terms of power consumption however you look at it.

That was Zacate, it has a TDP of 18 W.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

IIRC Llano is a low-powered Stars-core (Phenom II) derivative architecture fused to a GPU. It is not based on Bobcat or Bulldozer.

Does AMD plan to fit Llano between Bobcat & Bulldozer, then? That would make sense: Bobcat for ULV mobile devices, netbooks, & low-end notebooks, with Llano for mid-range & high-end notebooks along with low-end to mainstream desktops, & Bulldozer aimed at the high-end desktop & server markets?

I expect Llano to put up weaker performance numbers than Bobcat & Bulldozer simply because it seems like a transitional design (derivative architecture with a GPU slapped on die), whereas Bobcat & Bulldozer were new, integrated designs from the start. Does this make sense?

All I know is it's high time I replaced my nearly 2-year old Atom netbook & there's not a chance in hell I'll consider an Atom-based solution given what I've seen from AMD's fusion chips. I am extremely excited by their lineup. I think AMD has a very real chance of stealing the netbook market from Intel, finally being able to offer real competition in the notebook market, & making very impressive inroads against Intel in the budget/mainstream desktop markets. That is, if Intel doesn't pay OEMs to not use AMD's new parts, ha.

 

[busydude]

IIRC Llano is a low-powered Stars-core (Phenom II) derivative architecture fused to a GPU. It is not based on Bobcat or Bulldozer.

Low-powered, I am not sure. Yes, it is based on Phenom II, but larger L2 cache and no L3 cache. AMD also said it will have turbo and it is fabricated using HKMG process technology.

Does AMD plan to fit Llano between Bobcat & Bulldozer, then? That would make sense: Bobcat for ULV mobile devices, netbooks, & low-end notebooks, with Llano for mid-range & high-end notebooks along with low-end to mainstream desktops, & Bulldozer aimed at the high-end desktop & server markets?

Yup.

I expect Llano to put up weaker performance numbers than Bobcat & Bulldozer simply because it seems like a transitional design (derivative architecture with a GPU slapped on die), whereas Bobcat & Bulldozer were new, integrated designs from the start. Does this make sense?

Llano is expected to operate at >3 GHz. Bobcat based Ontario and Zacate operate ~1.0-1.6 Ghz. Clock for clock it may or may not be faster. Also, Llano is rumored to have 480 SP based GPU and may be comparable to a 5570.

The general consensus is that, Bobcat *will* be faster than Atom.

 

[Blitzvogel]

Well if Bobcat is based off of Athlon architecture, (which it is IIRC), it'll beat the literal crap out of an Atom, just like Athlon Neos do. Problem is that Athlon Neos suck up alot of juice and of course have a GPU on a separate die.

 

[busydude]

Well if Bobcat is based off of Athlon architecture, (which it is IIRC), it'll beat the literal crap out of an Atom, just like Athlon Neos do. Problem is that Athlon Neos suck up alot of juice and of course have a GPU on a separate die.

No, you got it all mixed up.

Bobcat is a new architecture.

Llano is based on Stars Core(Phenom II/ Athlon II).

More info on these architectures:

Bobcat: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3863/amd-discloses-bobcat-bulldozer-architectures-at-hot-chips-2010/2

Llano: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2933

Bulldozer: http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT082610181333

 

[StrangerGuy]

I don't know how Intel can even compete with Bobcat for netbooks since Atom will not be redesigned in 2011 unless they scale down Sandy Bridge.

I'm already selling my 14" i3 laptop and waiting for smaller Zacate netbooks. (After I found out gaming on a laptop is a lousy experience)