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Llama Mountain, Intel Reference Design 14nm Broadwell core tablets

R

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
http://liliputing.com/2014/06/intel-shows-off-llama-mountain-tablet-design-in-2-sizes.html
Intel shows off “Llama Mountain” tablet design in 2 sizes

Intel plans to launch its next-generation Core processors, code-named “Broadwell” by the end of 2014. The first to arrive will be a low-power, 14nm chip aimed at 2-in-1 tablets. It’s called the Intel Core M and to encourage device makers to build tablets based on the platform, Intel has introduced a reference design for a 2-in-1 tablet, code-named “Llama Mountain.”

After showing off a 12.5 inch version of the design at Computex on Tuesday, Intel unveiled a smaller version with a 10 inch display on Wednesday.

The 12.5 inch tablet measures 0.28 inches(7.2mm) thick and weighs 1.48 pounds (670 grams) while the 10 inch model is even smaller, at 0.27 inches (6.8mm) thick and 1.2 pounds (550 grams).

Both tablets are designed to work with keyboard docks which let you use them as notebooks.While detailed specs aren’t yet available, Intel says the 12.5 inch tablet has a 2560 x 1440 pixel display from Sharp… which suggests that it could be an IGZO display.

While the Core M chip isn’t yet shipping, there are plenty of 2-in-1 systems on the market, and Intel says it sees 3 times more designs in the works this year than during the same period last year — and about half of them are expected to sell for $700 or less.
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Here are some numbers for comparison between other tablets.

Llama Mountain 12.5” reference design, 16x9 Ratio, fanless
7.2 mm thick (.28 inches), 670 grams (1.48 pounds)

Llama Mountain 10” reference design, undisclosed ratio, fanless
6.8 mm thick (.27 inches), 550 grams (1.20 pounds)

14nm Asus T300 Chi which will be the first broadwell on the market 12.5", fanless
7.3 mm thick (.29 inches), undisclosed weight

Surface Pro 3, 12” 3x2 ratio, new fan never before seen
9.1 mm thick (.36 inches), 800 grams (1.76 pounds)

Surface Pro 2, 10.6” model 16x9 ratio, fan
13.5 mm thick (.53 inches), 907 grams (2.00 pounds)

Surface 2 (RT edition), 10.6” model 16x9 ratio, fanless
8.9 mm thick (.35 inches), 676 grams (1.49 pounds)

iPad Air, 9.7” model 4x3 ratio, fanless, best arm chip on the market
7.5 mm thick (.29 inches), 469 grams (1.03 pounds)

iPad Mini Retina, 7.9” model 4x3 ratio, fanless, best arm chip on the market
7.5 mm thick (.29 inches), 331 grams (0.73 pounds)
 
I am looking forward to the surface pro 4 generation. An i5 4300u, a chip you find in the surface pro 2/3, has about 81% the single thread performance of my i7 2600 desktop at stock, and that is with a 15w tdp. The i7 4610y is a 11.5w tdp chip and has about 98% the performance of the i5 4300u and about 80% the performance of my i7 2600.

For comparison my atom z3740 has 19% the single thread performance of my i7 2600, and 23% the single thread performance of the i5 4300u in the surface pro 2/3. Then again the atom z3740 has a SDP of about 2 watts so it could be put into a phone.

Same form factor as the good tablets, fanless, similar weight; but a whole lot faster than atom or arm. The only down side is the price is going to be much higher.
 
Even though there is fanless options, I much rather have that fan insurance for a prolonged runtime when docked to prevent overheating. (Pro 2 doesn't bat an eye on unplugged fan usage - but plugged in can use it)

Having the fan, increases that performance window a bit for that extreme mobile computing spectrum.

Otherwise, I would see a resurgence of "laptop cooling pads" but this time "tablet cooling pads" instead.

Even if the design dissipates along the entire chassis, it is pretty much passive convection (unless in a cool room or have a fan blowing at the workstation).

Also, this pertains to the CPU only. I am awaiting combination usages of other chips in play.
 
Imaginer said:
Even though there is fanless options, I much rather have that fan insurance for a prolonged runtime when docked to prevent overheating. (Pro 2 doesn't bat an eye on unplugged fan usage - but plugged in can use it)

Having the fan, increases that performance window a bit for that extreme mobile computing spectrum.

Otherwise, I would see a resurgence of "laptop cooling pads" but this time "tablet cooling pads" instead.

Even if the design dissipates along the entire chassis, it is pretty much passive convection (unless in a cool room or have a fan blowing at the workstation).

Also, this pertains to the CPU only. I am awaiting combination usages of other chips in play.
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You want fans in a tablet? Please no.

Surface Pro 3 needed this for me to really want one. Guess I'll have to wait for the Pro 4.
 
Imaginer said:
Even though there is fanless options, I much rather have that fan insurance for a prolonged runtime when docked to prevent overheating. (Pro 2 doesn't bat an eye on unplugged fan usage - but plugged in can use it)

Having the fan, increases that performance window a bit for that extreme mobile computing spectrum.
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You are right a fan allows better uses of turbos, better use of multi core turbo, and longer uses of turbos.
At the expense of thickness, weight, noise, and shorter battery life because now you have moving parts which take electricity to run.

It is a trade off that make sense for some people but makes less sense for other people. I would prefer fanless for with a tablet I just care about responsiveness, I do real work on my desktop and the whole point of a laptop/tablet for me is to be truly mobile and thus weight, battery life, screen quality, responsiveness is more important to me. A mobile professional on the other hand would want a mobile workstation and thus want a fan in their tablet.

I simply want my tablet to be as light as possible, to do that you need to be as thin as possible which means less components inside the tablet such as a fan.
 
Imaginer said:
Even though there is fanless options, I much rather have that fan insurance for a prolonged runtime when docked to prevent overheating. (Pro 2 doesn't bat an eye on unplugged fan usage - but plugged in can use it)

Having the fan, increases that performance window a bit for that extreme mobile computing spectrum.

Otherwise, I would see a resurgence of "laptop cooling pads" but this time "tablet cooling pads" instead.

Even if the design dissipates along the entire chassis, it is pretty much passive convection (unless in a cool room or have a fan blowing at the workstation).

Also, this pertains to the CPU only. I am awaiting combination usages of other chips in play.
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Basically this:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/6/3844010/lenovo-thinkpad-helix-convertible

but when you click the tablet into the keyboard dock, a special cooling system in the hinge allows the machine to overclock the Intel processor
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Roland00Address said:
iPad Air, 9.7” model 4x3 ratio, fanless, best arm chip on the market
7.5 mm thick (.29 inches), 469 grams (1.03 pounds)

iPad Mini Retina, 7.9” model 4x3 ratio, fanless, best arm chip on the market
7.5 mm thick (.29 inches), 331 grams (0.73 pounds)
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Those aren't Snapdragon 805s or Cortex A57 or Exynos 5 Octa driven devices.
 
According to Kirk Skaugen, Intel's PC client chief, a Broadwell 2-in-1 system similar to Llama Mountain reference design that is thinner than the iPad Air should start at $799. This is higher than the iPad, but it gets you the full PC experience in a tablet form factor.

The slightly thicker Broadwell-based 2-in-1 detachable notebook should start at a rather acceptable $599.
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Broadwell-Y will finally enable Core-based products as thin and light as the iPad. Perf/wise I dont think any other 2014 tablet chip will come close. $599-799 is acceptable IMHO, while Cherry Trail-T should target the cheaper <$499 stuff later this year or early 2015.
 
Sweepr said:
Broadwell-Y will finally enable Core-based products as thin and light as the iPad. Perf/wise I dont think any other 2014 tablet chip will come close. $599-799 is acceptable IMHO, while Cherry Trail-T should target the cheaper <$499 stuff later this year or early 2015.
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Do you have performance figures for these chips? Just curious where you are drawing your conclusions from about performance.
 
senttoschool said:
Do you have performance figures for these chips? Just curious where you are drawing your conclusions from about performance.
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If broadwell can get similar performance to the haswell y series chips but in a smaller form factor then it is almost absurdly they will be the fastest passively cooled tablets on the market (at the expense for a higher price tag, cpu binning, and a large die size for the cpu compared to arm's offerings).

The current intel haswell y series are 11.5 watt tdp chips, and at 11.5 watts, haswell core series easily scales compared to the 15 watt u series. Those y chips at 11.5 watts get about 85% of the performance of the u series but the max tdp of the y series is only 76% of the the u series. These haswell chips are 11.5 watt tdp chips but the marketing term sdp says these chips are 6 watts or 4.5 watts if you apply a tablet workload to them. Thus if an oem wants they can make a fanless haswell tablet and when the chip goes over whatever the passive cooling is capable of doing then the chip throttles automatically brings down the power consumption which then brings down the heat.

I do not know of anyone actually using a passively cooled haswell besides the panasonic toughpad which is a 7" tablet that is passively cooled, has a full size usb port, and weights 540grams (the nexus 7 2013 is 290 grams).

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In sum if they can keep the performance of broadwell constant with that of haswell y series but actually have design wins that are passively cooled; then the fastest silicon on the market that is passively cooled will be haswell and not some arm or atom chip
 
Roland00Address said:
I do not know of anyone actually using a passively cooled haswell besides the panasonic toughpad which is a 7" tablet that is passively cooled, has a full size usb port, and weights 540grams (the nexus 7 2013 is 290 grams).
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Hp Spectre 13 X2.

Yea, the adoption sucks. The GPU performance is noticeably lower, but thankfully Broadwell's big improvement is in the GPU perf/watt.
 
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