Livni: Give up parts of 'Land of Israel'

[JEDIYoda]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._ea/ml_israel_politics

JERUSALEM ? Tzipi Livni, who hopes to be appointed Israel's prime minister-designate, said Monday Israel must give up considerable territory in exchange for peace with the Palestinians, drawing a clear distinction with her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu.

She told a convention of American Jewish leaders, "we need to give up parts of the Land of Israel," using a term that refers to biblical borders that include today's Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, repeating her well-known view that pulling out of Palestinian areas would be for the good of Israel, to maintain it as a Jewish state.

Livni told the Conference of Presidents of Major American Organizations that Israel must take the initiative and come forward with its own peace plan to head off international programs. "Any plan put on the table will not be in our interest," she said.

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Before the pro-Palestinian people chime...YES she said -- Any plan put on the table would NOT be in our best interest!
Of course she didn`t mention the Palestinians because quite frankly supposedly Hamas duly elected by the palestinian people has the best interest of the Palestinaians at heart...

As far as her proposal to give up land....
Israel has given back quite a bit of land won due to military conflicts in that region,
Yet if it were to lead to a stable peace for all partys concerned, I would favor that plan!
After all if it doesn`t lead to a stable people than Israel will get back eventually anyways.


Peace!!

 

[Genx87]

Another pipe dream about to go up in smoke. What part of "until the destruction of Israel" do people fail to understand?

Not my problem yet. They will just move the rocket sites up after the land is reoccupied like they have in Gaza after the settlements were taken down.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Another pipe dream about to go up in smoke. What part of "until the destruction of Israel" do people fail to understand?

Not my problem yet. They will just move the rocket sites up after the land is reoccupied like they have in Gaza after the settlements were taken down.

Exactly but for all those nay sayers who blame Israel for everything regardless of whose fault it is, I say more power to Tzipi Livni!! oh..any by the way Peace!!

 

[heyheybooboo]

Zippy doesn't stand a chance ...

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Before the pro-Palestinian people chime...YES sghe said -- Any plan put on the table would NOT be in our best interest!

She said that any plan put on the table by the international community would not be in Israel's best interests. In other words, Israel will be able to keep more of the West Bank if it acts on it's own to reach a two-state solution rather than waiting for the world to impose one on the grounds of international law.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Of course she didn1t mention the Palestinians because....

She didn't mention Palestinians because their interests don't concern her beyond what peace for Israel requires.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Israel has given back quite a bit of land won due to military conflicts in that region,
Yet if it were to lead to a stable peace for all partys concerned, I would favor that plan!

The point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere for this to end. You've reduced the Palestinian territories to "won" land, while ignoring the millions of Palestinians living their under Israeli martial law. Until the civil rights of those millions of people are acknowledged, either by sovereignty over their homeland or as citizens of Israel, there is no possibility for even fleeting peace.

Originally posted by: Genx87
Another pipe dream about to go up in smoke. What part of "until the destruction of Israel" do people fail to understand?

Not my problem yet. They will just move the rocket sites up after the land is reoccupied like they have in Gaza after the settlements were taken down.

It is the fact that Israel has been engaged in the destruction of Palestine since long before Hamas ever existed which you constantly fail to understand, and which has to end for the rockets to stop. Livni has the intellect to comprehend that reality, but sadly she is up against a mighty wall of people who don't.

 

[Genx87]

It is the fact that Israel has been engaged in the destruction of Palestine since long before Hamas ever existed which you constantly fail to understand, and which has to end for the rockets to stop. Livni has the intellect to comprehend that reality, but sadly she is up against a mighty wall of people who don't.

Here is a simple reality for you. Until Israel is completely destroyed or Hamas removed from power, the rockets will never stop falling.

 

[sandorski]

She's right, but of course it's more complicated than that.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Genx87

It is the fact that Israel has been engaged in the destruction of Palestine since long before Hamas ever existed which you constantly fail to understand, and which has to end for the rockets to stop. Livni has the intellect to comprehend that reality, but sadly she is up against a mighty wall of people who don't.

Here is a simple reality for you. Until Israel is completely destroyed or Hamas removed from power, the rockets will never stop falling.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another reality, if Hamas is removed from power or otherwise ceases launching rockets into Israel, there are a plethora of other terrorists groups who will get the funding to keep launching rockets.

Israel has to bear the blame for the creation of both Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as the deep well of international anger over Israel's tendency to keep gobbling up more and more land.

Livini is correct, sooner or later the international is going to come up with their own much fairer plan, and Israeli expansionists definitely will not like it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Genx87

It is the fact that Israel has been engaged in the destruction of Palestine since long before Hamas ever existed which you constantly fail to understand, and which has to end for the rockets to stop. Livni has the intellect to comprehend that reality, but sadly she is up against a mighty wall of people who don't.

Here is a simple reality for you. Until Israel is completely destroyed or Hamas removed from power, the rockets will never stop falling.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another reality, if Hamas is removed from power or otherwise ceases launching rockets into Israel, there are a plethora of other terrorists groups who will get the funding to keep launching rockets.

Israel has to bear the blame for the creation of both Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as the deep well of international anger over Israel's tendency to keep gobbling up more and more land.

Livini is correct, sooner or later the international is going to come up with their own much fairer plan, and Israeli expansionists definitely will not like it.

So how has the West bank been lately?

 

[Ozoned]

Any international plan lacks any workable or feasable enforcement arm. In the end, the Jewish people simply are not going to submit to any type of outside control, and they have leverage.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Any international plan lacks any workable or feasable enforcement arm. In the end, the Jewish people simply are not going to submit to any type of outside control, and they have leverage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Israel, a country with some 7 million people will withstand the the anger of the international community and the larger world with some 6 billion plus population?????

 

[soccerballtux]

What if Israel got it in writing that the Palestinians/Hamas would completely cease fire forever and for good if they gave up a certain amount of their land? Part of the clause could be "and if you attack us we have your full permission to re-take our land".

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Another pipe dream about to go up in smoke. What part of "until the destruction of Israel" do people fail to understand?

Not my problem yet. They will just move the rocket sites up after the land is reoccupied like they have in Gaza after the settlements were taken down.

Rockets do not threaten the long term survival of israel. Israel will be destroyed in 50 years by demographics.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Any international plan lacks any workable or feasable enforcement arm. In the end, the Jewish people simply are not going to submit to any type of outside control, and they have leverage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Israel, a country with some 7 million people will withstand the the anger of the international community and the larger world with some 6 billion plus population?????

What country has shown a willingness to really test their tenacity?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
What if Israel got it in writing that the Palestinians/Hamas would completely cease fire forever and for good if they gave up a certain amount of their land? Part of the clause could be "and if you attack us we have your full permission to re-take our land".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sadly, soccerballtux has no understanding of public opinion or terrorism. Israel may have a somewhat divided government, the Palestinians governed under either Hamas or Fatah have no real government, certainly nothing they can call a State, and no one can really speak for them until those conditions are fixed.

Meanwhile, various entities will vie to be their spokesmen, and neither a passive Fatah or an aggressive Hamas have delivered any real bacon to improve their lot.

Hence, given the fact that Fatah has failed in the West Bank because Israel refuses to grant them any concessions in the Annapolis talks for good behavior, its hard to conceive of any new viable Palestinian spokesmen being anything but more militant against Israel than Hamas.

But if Israel, under Livini, does offer some meaningful concessions, it would energize Palestinians moderates and discredit the more violent Hamas types.

Its really a public opinion thing, moderates have been driven out of the process, and only moderates on both sides can make any real peace. As it is now, extremists on both sides make policy and its still heading for a train wreck orgy of violence as the hatreds build and build.

 

[theeedude]

Maybe someone can explain to me what the Israeli Right wing's long term plan for Palestinian territories is. It seems to me like they consider Palestine Jewish land, and want to expand settlements into Palestinian lands, but they aren't exactly saying what their plan for current inhabitants of those lands is. They don't want them to be Israeli citizens because that would mean Israel would cease to be a Jewish state, but they do want their land. So what will happen to Palestinians if Israeli Right gets its way? Maybe someone can weigh in. Is it going to be a permanent apartheid state where the Palestinians get to live there without rights of citizenship, or will there be some sort of ethnic cleansing either through expulsions or worse? Just want to know what their vision of the future of Israel is, if it's not giving up on the occupation and splitting into two states.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Genx87

It is the fact that Israel has been engaged in the destruction of Palestine since long before Hamas ever existed which you constantly fail to understand, and which has to end for the rockets to stop. Livni has the intellect to comprehend that reality, but sadly she is up against a mighty wall of people who don't.

Here is a simple reality for you. Until Israel is completely destroyed or Hamas removed from power, the rockets will never stop falling.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another reality, if Hamas is removed from power or otherwise ceases launching rockets into Israel, there are a plethora of other terrorists groups who will get the funding to keep launching rockets.

Israel has to bear the blame for the creation of both Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as the deep well of international anger over Israel's tendency to keep gobbling up more and more land.

Livini is correct, sooner or later the international is going to come up with their own much fairer plan, and Israeli expansionists definitely will not like it.

Whose words are you adding to now?
Levin did not say -- a the international community would come up with a much fairer plan....hmmmm

Also Israel does not have top bear the blame for anything........

Sheese I Love it when you post!!

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Maybe someone can explain to me what the Israeli Right wing's long term plan for Palestinian territories is. It seems to me like they consider Palestine Jewish land, and want to expand settlements into Palestinian lands, but they aren't exactly saying what their plan for current inhabitants of those lands is. They don't want them to be Israeli citizens because that would mean Israel would cease to be a Jewish state, but they do want their land. So what will happen to Palestinians if Israeli Right gets its way? Maybe someone can weigh in. Is it going to be a permanent apartheid state where the Palestinians get to live there without rights of citizenship, or will there be some sort of ethnic cleansing either through expulsions or worse? Just want to know what their vision of the future of Israel is, if it's not giving up on the occupation and splitting into two states.

They have no plan. Like many politicians everywhere, they only care about the short term and creating or maintaining a status quo which enriches themselves.

I really hope whoever soon leads Israel pursues some sort of peace plan. But as mentioned, demographics will change Israel in the future if it allows more non-Jews to be citizens. There are some other countries with strict demographic controls aimed at maintaining purity of the races, like Japan, and the former regime of South Africa.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Before the pro-Palestinian people chime...YES sghe said -- Any plan put on the table would NOT be in our best interest!

She said that any plan put on the table by the international community would not be in Israel's best interests. In other words, Israel will be able to keep more of the West Bank if it acts on it's own to reach a two-state solution rather than waiting for the world to impose one on the grounds of international law.

So now you have appointed yourself Levin`s interpreter...nice try!

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Of course she didn`t mention the Palestinians because....

She didn't mention Palestinians because their interests don't concern her beyond what peace for Israel requires.

Well you know finally something we can agree on!! That`s the way almost any nation in the world if they were in Israel``s shoes would look at this mess that the Palestinians got themselves into!

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Israel has given back quite a bit of land won due to military conflicts in that region,
Yet if it were to lead to a stable peace for all partys concerned, I would favor that plan!

The point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere for this to end. You've reduced the Palestinian territories to "won" land, while ignoring the millions of Palestinians living their under Israeli martial law. Until the civil rights of those millions of people are acknowledged, either by sovereignty over their homeland or as citizens of Israel, there is no possibility for even fleeting peace.

No I have not reduced the "Palestinian territories" into "won" land!
You go to war and the spoils go to the victor......simple internationally agreed upon concept!
That concept has been around for thousands of years!!

Originally posted by: Genx87
Another pipe dream about to go up in smoke. What part of "until the destruction of Israel" do people fail to understand?

Not my problem yet. They will just move the rocket sites up after the land is reoccupied like they have in Gaza after the settlements were taken down.

It is the fact that Israel has been engaged in the destruction of Palestine since long before Hamas ever existed which you constantly fail to understand, and which has to end for the rockets to stop. Livni has the intellect to comprehend that reality, but sadly she is up against a mighty wall of people who don't.

For that matter Genx87 is 100% correct!!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The rockets will continue to fall as long as Israel exists within range of any Palestinian or Lebanese terrorist.

fixed.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Genx87
The rockets will continue to fall as long as Israel exists within range of any Palestinian or Lebanese terrorist.

fixed.

Thank You for the correction!! It was spot on!

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Here is a simple reality for you. Until Israel is completely destroyed or Hamas removed from power, the rockets will never stop falling.

That is an exceedingly simple-minded position.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
She said that any plan put on the table by the international community would not be in Israel's best interests. In other words, Israel will be able to keep more of the West Bank if it acts on it's own to reach a two-state solution rather than waiting for the world to impose one on the grounds of international law.

So now you have appointed yourself Levin`s interpreter...nice try

I simply reitrated what the article you posted says here:

Livni told the Conference of Presidents of Major American Organizations that Israel must take the initiative and come forward with its own peace plan to head off international programs. "Any plan put on the table will not be in our interest," she said.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
No I have not reduced the "Palestinian territories" into "won" land!
You go to war and the spoils go to the victor...

You just did it again, and are still overlooking those millions of people subjugated under Israeli rule in the Palestinian territories.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Genx87
Here is a simple reality for you. Until Israel is completely destroyed or Hamas removed from power, the rockets will never stop falling.

That is an exceedingly simple-minded position.

Exactly by jove I think you got it!! It really is that simple!! Bottom it is that simple!!

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
She said that any plan put on the table by the international community would not be in Israel's best interests. In other words, Israel will be able to keep more of the West Bank if it acts on it's own to reach a two-state solution rather than waiting for the world to impose one on the grounds of international law.

So now you have appointed yourself Levin`s interpreter...nice try

I simply reitrated what the article you posted says here:

Livni told the Conference of Presidents of Major American Organizations that Israel must take the initiative and come forward with its own peace plan to head off international programs. "Any plan put on the table will not be in our interest," she said.

So you assume that Levin is talking about the West Bank?? Even you are not that Nieve to blatantly believe that...well maybe you are.....

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
No I have not reduced the "Palestinian territories" into "won" land!
You go to war and the spoils go to the victor...

You just did it again, and are still overlooking those millions of people subjugated under Israeli rule in the Palestinian territories.

So whose fault is that? Surely NOT Israel`s fault?? Next thing you will tell me that Israel elected Hamas.......

War is war......the spoils have always gone to the victor.....have they not?
Or are you going to tell me the Palestinians are an exception....well come to think of it you might come up with some sort of malarky!!

 

[Zebo]

Israelis have Stockholm syndrome, sad.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Israelis have Stockholm syndrome, sad.

Quote as usual you have no clue what stockholm syndrome is when used in it`s proper context!

There is noway the Israeli`s identify with the Palestinians or for that matter any other group that wants to harm them.

What they care about is being left alone.
What don`t you understand about that.
Nothing they do and they know it is going to change the mis-guided percetion about them.