Little personal story on the evolution of my view on healthcare

[Fern]

Of course they have high costs when they are the insurance of last resort. Most of Medicare/caids patients are cast offs from the private ins system bc they are too expensive, ie the sick and the elderly.
-snip-

Medicaid is for the poor. They're not cast-offs, they're poor. The Medicaid burden is increasing (partially) because of sustained unemployment. Upon unemployment you're off the emplyer's HI plan, the longer you remain unemployed the more likely you're gonna qualify for Medicaid.

Yes, of course Medicare has high costs because it insures the elderly who consume vast amounts of HC resources. That's to be expected, the problem is the unsustainable rate of rising cost. I.e., it's not just high but rising ever higher very quickly. Without cost controls we won't be able to keep it up, and shifting doesn't help because doesn't shifting doesn't lower costs it just moves them around.

Fern

 

[Thump553]

Bitek: Do me a favor and check the availability of individual (or family) health plans specifically available to you. Most states in the US have two or three licensed health insurers, each of which may offer a half dozen plans that are remotely applicable to your situation. Hardly the thousands of choices you claim.


And as for claiming present day health care is a free market system, that's a total fiction. The vast majority of people are covered by either the government (over a third of US population and rapidly closing in on 50&#37 or "private" health insurance, which is heavily regulated. You think you could go into the health insurance business tomorrow, or start a heart surgery practice, like you could open a hardware store? Not hardly.

All aspects of US health care are a profit driven system within a regulatory framework, except for those portions that are exclusively governmental, like the VA.

 

[glenn1]

Our free market system, and one’s ability to compete in it, should dictate what house you live in, what car you drive, what toys you buy, etc. It should NOT dictate whether you should live or die if you get sick. Our country is better than that. The free market is too cruel and unforgiving when it’s people’s lives we are dealing with, and the only people who would disagree in my opinion are those who have never faced true adversity when it comes to their health.

edit: I should have noted that my wife got the all clear after that oncologist appointment.

We all die, regardless of whether there's a free market system in place for healthcare or not. And you trying to shame others by playing the "if you've never faced true adversity" line is bullshit and cowardice. It's an extremely selfish view that you should be able to decide for me and everyone else that providing subsidized healthcare for your wife and others like her is the highest good; we might instead want to feed the hungry, or any other countless priorities instead.

 

[owensdj]

We all die, regardless of whether there's a free market system in place for healthcare or not. And you trying to shame others by playing the "if you've never faced true adversity" line is bullshit and cowardice. It's an extremely selfish view that you should be able to decide for me and everyone else that providing subsidized healthcare for your wife and others like her is the highest good; we might instead want to feed the hungry, or any other countless priorities instead.

What you're missing is that it could be YOU who has to rely on a subsidized health care system in the future. Just because you're healthy or have enough money to pay for good insurance now doesn't mean you'll always be so fortunate. That was the point of the original post.

If other countries can cover everybody and spend far less than we do now, why can we do it here? We need to throw out all the "free market" ideology and come up with some practical solutions. It seems like we need:

1. A single-payer system that covers everybody. It would be a national health insurance that everybody would pay into, and it wouldn't be tied to your employer.

2. Tort reform.

3. More "Family Practice" doctors.

4. Emphasis on prevention and healthy living. Period screening tests would be free.

 

[Zorkorist]

I haven't had insurance for over a decade and still don't want "the public option" or anything else from our government. You know what our government needs to do for us? Quit spending money and trying to fix everything they think is wrong. The amount of money our government spends every year is a joke and it's going to keep getting worse unless we, the people, take the power back.

They could stop subsidizing tobacco, for instance.

-John

 

[woolfe9999]

Medicaid is for the poor. They're not cast-offs, they're poor. The Medicaid burden is increasing (partially) because of sustained unemployment. Upon unemployment you're off the emplyer's HI plan, the longer you remain unemployed the more likely you're gonna qualify for Medicaid.

Yes, of course Medicare has high costs because it insures the elderly who consume vast amounts of HC resources. That's to be expected, the problem is the unsustainable rate of rising cost. I.e., it's not just high but rising ever higher very quickly. Without cost controls we won't be able to keep it up, and shifting doesn't help because doesn't shifting doesn't lower costs it just moves them around.

Fern

You keep diagnosing the probably accurately. What is your solution? Stop being a policy tease.

- wolf

 

[Zorkorist]

Can someone tell me why Health Costs are rising?

Like, if you need to take care of a person (nurse), I think she rises with minimm wage.

If you need to operate on someone, (surgeon), I guess it is supply and demand.

But I know of nothing that explains the rise in health care costs, other than:

Insurance Companies
Trial Lawyers
and Government

None of them have shit to do with health care.

-John

 

[Fear No Evil]

Can someone tell me why Health Costs are rising?

Like, if you need to take care of a person (nurse), I think she rises with minimm wage.

If you need to operate on someone, (surgeon), I guess it is supply and demand.

But I know of nothing that explains the rise in health care costs, other than:

Insurance Companies
Trial Lawyers
and Government

None of them have shit to do with health care.

-John

How much do you think that state of the art MRI machine costs? What do hospitals do when patients go elsewhere because the one down the road who has the new 3d one gets all the customers who want the only the best? They have to buy the new one too, even though the old one works fine in 99% of the cases.

Its not just those 3 things, its a lot of things.. including YOU.

 

[Zorkorist]

A state of the art MRI machine, doesn't cost that much.

What's your guess?

I'll guess $75,000.

Less than my last hospital bill.

-John

 

[charrison]

A state of the art MRI machine, doesn't cost that much.

What's your guess?

I'll guess $75,000.

Less than my last hospital bill.

-John

Google says they still cost $1-$3million.

However, eye docs are constanty upgrading their LASIK machines and yet their costs are staying at or below inflation.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Google says they still cost $1-$3million.

However, eye docs are constanty upgrading their LASIK machines and yet their costs are staying at or below inflation.

How can that be? Government and insurance isn't paying for it...

 

[Mxylplyx]

We all die, regardless of whether there's a free market system in place for healthcare or not. And you trying to shame others by playing the "if you've never faced true adversity" line is bullshit and cowardice. It's an extremely selfish view that you should be able to decide for me and everyone else that providing subsidized healthcare for your wife and others like her is the highest good; we might instead want to feed the hungry, or any other countless priorities instead.

Firstly, I never claimed to have faced adversity. I've been insured my whole life.

Secondly, your "we all die, but poor people just die quicker" line is quite telling. Wear that compassionate conservative badge proudly man. I'm sure we dont need subsidized healthcare anyways, because people like you are surely flooding the coffers of your local charity hospital, right?

 

[Carmen813]

Firstly, I never claimed to have faced adversity. I've been insured my whole life.

Secondly, your "we all die, but poor people just die quicker" line is quite telling. Wear that compassionate conservative badge proudly man. I'm sure we dont need subsidized healthcare anyways, because people like you are surely flooding the coffers of your local charity hospital, right?

It doesn't matter what other positions you hold Mxylplyx, you are a socialist now. Hayabusa Rider has the T-shirts, make sure you PM him.

 

[zsdersw]

We all die, regardless of whether there's a free market system in place for healthcare or not.

Fine. Why don't we just all kill each other now? The end result will be the same, won't it? Your idiocy offends me.

And you trying to shame others by playing the "if you've never faced true adversity" line is bullshit and cowardice. It's an extremely selfish view that you should be able to decide for me and everyone else that providing subsidized healthcare for your wife and others like her is the highest good; we might instead want to feed the hungry, or any other countless priorities instead.

.. says the pot to the kettle.

 

[DesiPower]

Nice thread, but why such a long post OP? could have just written - "I drank kool aid over the years".

 

[ebaycj]

The free market system is the only fiscally responsible solution.

Health care is an artificially limited resource. Limited resources have their costs dictated by the market.

Fixed for you.

 

[Genx87]

I would highly dispute the notion that we don't have a free market system. We have some regulation tinkering around the edges, but really there are thousands of HC plans for thousands of different employers, and the actions of employee's basing their employment in large measure on HC benefits. Ins plans work out their own networks and set their reimbursement policies. Hospitals setup their own treatment strategies to attract patients (customers) to their hospital, and doctors choose what plans to accept and hospitals to be associated with. In the end, all of it is profit driven.

Its a free market. Its a self-organizing system driven by profit which chooses its own risk tolerances, costs and benefits. Not liking the results of it does not give one liberty to call it different.

I cant buy insurance across state lines. I cant usually negotiate my care price. And we dont know what the cost is until after we make a purchase. Hospitals are regulated to the hilt. They are forced to take customers regardless of their ability to pay. Govt sets mandates for levels of care and levels of insurance on a state by state basis. Govt picks up the tab of close to 50% of our healthcare costs in this country.

Those are just a few examples of how our healthcare industry is not "free market".

 

[ebaycj]

Tough cookies kid, our country is broke. Our country is NOT "better" than that. Especially not when there are starving Chinese willing to work 12 hour days just to stay alive. And you're fussing about the "expensive" cost of paying for the world's best healthcare, while you work your 40h job. Feh. Grow up. Life sucks a LOT MORE everywhere else, and none of us have any right to health care.

I'm uninsured right now and do NOT want the healthcare legislation passing.

You are a horrible fucking person.

 

[ebaycj]

A state of the art MRI machine, doesn't cost that much.

What's your guess?

I'll guess $75,000.

Less than my last hospital bill.

-John

$2 million. Still peanuts. A state of the art machine should be good for 8000 scans at $250 a piece over a year or two.

The problem comes in when that hospital decides they want to pay that MRI machine off in a month or two or three with $2500 scans .

 

[zsdersw]

Tough cookies kid, our country is broke. Our country is NOT "better" than that. Especially not when there are starving Chinese willing to work 12 hour days just to stay alive. And you're fussing about the "expensive" cost of paying for the world's best healthcare, while you work your 40h job. Feh. Grow up. Life sucks a LOT MORE everywhere else, and none of us have any right to health care.

I'm uninsured right now and do NOT want the healthcare legislation passing.

I'm glad to see that a communist country is the yardstick by which we measure ours.

Life may suck a lot more everywhere else, but that's no reason for us not to try to make our lives in this country better.

 

[DesiPower]

$2 million. Still peanuts. A state of the art machine should be good for 8000 scans at $250 a piece over a year or two.

The problem comes in when that hospital decides they want to pay that MRI machine off in a month or two or three with $2500 scans .

Do you know how many medicade and medicare patients they have to treat? they dont get 2500 for those. Not to mention many payments are denied and many take over 6 months to clear. Liberals have imported way too pany poor ppl that they, with the tax payers money can help "lead a better life" and many of those dont even qualify for medicade my friend. For those the hospitals have to rely on charities who pay wayyy less than 2500 and in many cases they just dont get jack.

Its like everything else in America, working ppl who have jobs get penalized for completing their education and working hard for a living. one out of every 8 ppl get free food so that they can stay alive to vote the fvckin politicians to office.

Like everything else in life, this calculation is not that black and white either, there are way too many factors to consider...

 

[DesiPower]

I'm glad to see that a communist country is the yardstick by which we measure ours.

Life may suck a lot more everywhere else, but that's no reason for us not to try to make our lives in this country better.

Sure, encourage ppl to live a better life, encourage them to work, preserve jobs, stop them from going overseas and then get ppl to work on them.
Dont just feed clothe house and now threat them for free!!! Create jobs and encourage them to work.

 

[daishi5]

You keep diagnosing the probably accurately. What is your solution? Stop being a policy tease.

- wolf

Designing a health care system is a huge complex problem, the inability to solve it does not invalidate his criticisms.