LITIGATION NATION: Lowe’s pays $1.6M settlement over 2×4 labeling Read more at http:/

[TheSlamma]

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf

 

[CPA]

So, when do the lawyers start suing hard drive manufacturers?

Are consumers supposed to know the difference how drives are marketed and how Windows calculates total capacity?

Where's the class action lawsuit? Nevermind, apparently, it's already happened:

Per Wiki:

Some legal challenges have been waged over this confusion such as a suit against Western Digital.[8][9] Western Digital settled the challenge and added explicit disclaimers to products that the usable capacity may differ from the advertised capacity.[8] Seagate was sued on similar grounds and also settled.[8][10]

Sorry, all of this is stupid. Lowe's isn't purposely trying to harm anyone, they are selling based on industry standard. Personally, if you don't know what lumber sizes mean, then maybe you shouldn't be working with lumber.

 

[IronWing]

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf

My grandfather worked at the Forest Products Laboratory for awhile.

 

[waggy]

Sorry, all of this is stupid. Lowe's isn't purposely trying to harm anyone, they are selling based on industry standard. Personally, if you don't know what lumber sizes mean, then maybe you shouldn't be working with lumber.

I agree.

Though i will say that my old house that was over 100 years old had 2x4's. 2 inches by 4 inches. same with 4x4's etc.

but today if you don't know a 2x4 is not 2inches meh..

 

[highland145]

I agree.

Though i will say that my old house that was over 100 years old had 2x4's. 2 inches by 4 inches. same with 4x4's etc.

but today if you don't know a 2x4 is not 2inches meh..

True in my 75 yo house. Also looks like they put it up geen with all of the sap marbling the surface of some of the rafters.

 

[MrPickins]

That can EASILY be done after its dried before it is sent to the stores, so yes. There's a big variance between 3.75 inches and 4 inches. I could take up to 1/16 of an inch difference but 1/4 inch is crazy talk. There will always be boards that don't measure up. Go to your local box store and see the lumber that is there. It's picked through to find the best pieces already.

I'm exaggerating when I mention 1/4" difference, but you have to understand that there will be a variance in lumber sizes, if nothing else, due to the humidity differences in locations.

Wood is not precise like metal.


As for picking through the wood, when I buy from a box store (very rarely), I'm checking more for bowing of the board, not dimensions.

 

[HeXen]

Problem is wood doesn't always shrink down to the exact dimension. one will be 1.5 X 3.5 and the next will be 1.52 X 3.52 then we got another lawsuit on our hands.

But you already have a lawsuit anyway, so again...why not? At least it would be closer to exact size than before.

 

[Howard]

Problem is wood doesn't always shrink down to the exact dimension. one will be 1.5 X 3.5 and the next will be 1.52 X 3.52 then we got another lawsuit on our hands.

I can't believe there are people that believe that a 2-by-4 is 1.5x3.5 because of shrinkage.

 

[Humpy]

I can't believe there are people that believe that a 2-by-4 is 1.5x3.5 because of shrinkage.

Why not?

Green wood is milled over-sized with a target of 1.5 x 3.5 when it reaches moisture equilibrium.

 

[IronWing]

Why not?

Green wood is milled over-sized with a target of 1.5 x 3.5 when it reaches moisture equilibrium.

That's the problem. They should call them something other than 2x4s when the lumber mill has no intention of getting anywhere near 2x4. They are knowingly, consistently selling 34% less product than the label states. It's like if Pepsi were selling 8oz cans of coke and labeling them as 12oz because that is just the way things are done.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Having replaced deck boards, I had to try a few different stores until I found boards that best matched my current ones.

There was at least 1/4" variation in board size.

 

[Humpy]

That's the problem. They should call them something other than 2x4s when the lumber mill has no intention of getting anywhere near 2x4. They are knowingly, consistently selling 34% less product than the label states. It's like if Pepsi were selling 8oz cans of coke and labeling them as 12oz because that is just the way things are done.

This is a long settled issue. Being labeled a 2x4 does not refer to a measurement. It could be labeled as "small" or "#1 board" or whatever. The properties of framing lumber are such that it is not a finished good that is required (or is even possible) to be sold in precise amounts. It is a partially processed raw material that requires additional work to be made into a final product.

Edit: Bricks, tile, pipe, and all sorts of other construction materials are sold in similar nominal sizes and have been for decades without issue. That it has become an issue makes people appear to be getting dumber.

 

[alkemyst]

Why not?

Green wood is milled over-sized with a target of 1.5 x 3.5 when it reaches moisture equilibrium.

It's milled, the shrinkage is a minor part.

The reason it's labelled a 2x4 is because that's what the mill uses to start the process.

 

[Howard]

Why not?

Green wood is milled over-sized with a target of 1.5 x 3.5 when it reaches moisture equilibrium.

Not sure why you're not getting it. It's not 1.5x3.5 because of shrinkage. Wood doesn't shrink by 25% through the thickness and by 12.5% through the width because of moisture loss.

 

[Humpy]

It's milled, the shrinkage is a minor part.

The reason it's labelled a 2x4 is because that's what the mill uses to start the process.

No. The reason why its called a 2x4 was posted twice in this thread in the Forest Service document History of Yard Lumber Size Standards.

There is no standard size for rough-sawn lumber before it is dressed for sale as dimensional lumber. A mill will rough cut to whatever size will maximize yield of a log. At one point, depending on the mill and material, that may or may not have been 2"x4". Modern high speed gang saws will rough cut closer to dressed dimensions.

 

[jagec]

My point was that calling those planks 2x4 is just as arbitrary as calling them standard boards. The common name has no bearing on the product you're actually buying.

If your contractor tells you that your house is framed with 2x4s, and you run out to buy a whole bunch of actual 2"x4" wood (God knows where), you'll be very disappointed the first time you try to do a repair.

Perhaps it's a stupid system, but it's still a standard. 120VAC actually gets up to 167V at the peak, should I sue about that because I don't know that the measurement is rms?

 

[Humpy]

Not sure why you're not getting it. It's not 1.5x3.5 because of shrinkage. Wood doesn't shrink by 25% through the thickness and by 12.5% through the width because of moisture loss.

This isn't a debatable topic. I don't even know what you are arguing or where you are getting your figures. The woods used for framing lumber are expected to shrink ~1/32" per inch from a green state of ~30% moisture to a dry state of ~12%. Modern computerized milling methods fine tune this based on the moisture content of each piece of wood that passes through the system. Green wood is easier on the equipment as it is "softer".

Green wood is absolutely, 100% for certain fact, milled oversized with the expectation that it will shrink to the target size (for a 2x4) of 1 1/2" x 3 1/2". It is in fact because of shrinkage.