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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,090
146
i'll agree to disagree. i'll stick with halloween, poltergeist, nightmare on elmstreet, and friday the 13th as old school horror movies, not terminator

even imdb doesn't think T1 is horror, and imdb is everything!

http://ilovethatfilm.blogspot.com/2012/10/genre-analysis-of-terminator.html

http://classic-horror.com/reviews/terminator_1984

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-terminator/31391/why-the-terminator-is-a-horror-classic

https://cinephilefix.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/film-analysis-terminator-and-t2-judgment-day/

etc.

IMDB...Ha! notioursly thinks that Shawshank, maybe a top 200, top 500 at best film is number 1 overall. But well, anyway.

I think it is easy to confuse Terminator 1, now, with everything that the story became after. It's easy to forget that when there was only Terminator 1 and nothing else, you had a horror film that spent about 2 minutes of screen time dealing with Skynet/the future/robot armies, etc. The film really wasn't about any of that: it was about surviving a vicious, relentless killer. There was never any concern for the future or doing anything about the future. Indeed: the future wasn't even part of the story and is what made those first Terminator films so great--this horrible thing that we never see. An unseen horror.

Only in T2 did the focus turn towards Judgement Day and actively engaging in the social/military/technology issues that lead to our own destruction, and trying to prevent that.

"Robots and the future" does not make science fiction--not by a longshot. You can't just toss a space ship into a movie and call it sci fi. You ahve to address these themes and explicitly deal with their relevance in relation to our current situation. There is no real science fiction film or novel that is recognized as such and has nothing to say about the contemporary world.
A robot and time travel is the only whisper of sci fi elements that we get with Terminator. Had it never been successful and lead to T2, I promise you that you would recall it as only a horror flick with an angry robot standing in for Jason--because that is all it is.

People now always see T1 under the light of T2, which are two very different films.

and why isn't Poltergiest a fantasy movie for you? it is about ghosts/angry spirits. It has as much thematic relationship to fantasy as T1 has to Sci Fi, by your own standard, yet you consider it horror but not T1. weird.

...and those are most accurately called slasher flicks--certainly horror, but a specific and relatively simple sub-genre.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,834
5,713
126
lol so are you now going to tell me the 13th warrior is also a horror movie?

http://classic-horror.com/reviews/13th_warrior_1999

again, i'll agree to disagree. nothing you say will convince me. it's not a horror movie. sure it has some horror elements, just like thrillers have some horror elements, but that doesn't make them horror flicks.

i watched The Perfect Guy last night and it had horror elements (a relentless guy who was harming some girl and would not stop until he was killed - sounds familiar...) , but to call it a horror flick would be dumb and wrong. oh, and my wife jumped in that movie and didn't jump at all while watching terminator.
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Terminator is NOT a "horror movie" how is that even conceivable.
I will agree it's not technically a "sci-fi" movie, but it is where the general public is concerned.
If anything T1 is an action movie with loose Sci-Fi footings. It is not even close to "horror"
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,834
5,713
126
Terminator is NOT a "horror movie" how is that even conceivable.
I will agree it's not technically a "sci-fi" movie, but it is where the general public is concerned.
If anything T1 is an action movie with loose Sci-Fi footings. It is not even close to "horror"

im with you. i simply can't grasp how one would call it that. maybe if that is the only "horror movie" they have ever seen, then maybe i could understand why one would think that. there is absolutely nothing anyone can say that will convince me it is a horror movie in the horror genre.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,090
146
You guys are funny. I'll let my film degree inform me more than your IMDB voting.

You have to learn to see past simple props and understand themes and plotting.

Next, you guys will try to argue that Star Wars is Sci Fi and not Fantasy! :D

agree to disagree all you want, but T1 was always classified as Horror. In fact, you were more likely to find this under the horror section at your video store back in 1984 and on.

right...that is the only horror movie I have seen. Dude, you just listed a bunch of slasher flicks and ghost movie as examples of "classic horror."

Rosemary's Baby, The Exorcist are classic Horror. Halloween was that first major crossover that merged horror into something new, but certainly after classic horror.

I'm not bothered if you guys think about these thinks superficially and on simple terms--it certainly doesn't detract from your enjoyment or mine--but they are exactly what they are.

I trust that I have far more experience in studying these films. I'm not trying to be elitist about it, I'm just trying to explain some things. You can laugh and think I am foolish, but it doesn't change that I seem to know a good bit more about this stuff than you.

And that isn't anything special. Again, I just have far more experience with this stuff. I'm not going to tell you how to program android apps or whatever. :p

I already linked some articles for you guys to read. Continue to ignore it all you want.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,834
5,713
126
You guys are funny. I'll let my film degree inform me more than your IMDB voting.

You have to learn to see past simple props and understand themes and plotting.

Next, you guys will try to argue that Star Wars is Sci Fi and not Fantasy! :D

agree to disagree all you want, but T1 was always classified as Horror. In fact, you were more likely to find this under the horror section at your video store back in 1984 and on.

LOL.

i'll use my common sense to inform me more than your film degree.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,090
146
LOL.

i'll use my common sense to inform me more than your film degree.

you realize that makes absolutely no sense, right?

You're Approaching eits territory of "I ignore all the evidence and numbers because I think x!" :D

Does it actually change anything for you when you accept that you guys have it under the wrong genre? I bet you'd still like it.

What do Trump supporters like about Trump? His "common sense," they say. As you well know, common sense is usually subjectively useless. Especially with issues that actually have defined categories. This isn't subjective, as much as you want it to be.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,009
8,639
136
http://ilovethatfilm.blogspot.com/2012/10/genre-analysis-of-terminator.html

^^^ "Firstly, The Terminator is science fiction."

http://classic-horror.com/reviews/terminator_1984

^^^ "After all, it’s [T1] a sci-fi action-thriller..."

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-terminator/31391/why-the-terminator-is-a-horror-classic

^^^ "Although primarily a sci-fi action film, The Terminator... "

https://cinephilefix.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/film-analysis-terminator-and-t2-judgment-day/

^^^ "I must’ve watched them [T1 & T2] a hundred times and I still give them credit for kicking off my interest to [sic] science fiction and the many mind boggling philosophical ideas that come hand in hand with the genre.

I provided a salient quote from each of your own links , MR. Undergrad Film Degree, Mr. Blockbuster Boy! :colbert:
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
...it was about surviving a vicious, relentless killer. There was never any concern for the future or doing anything about the future. Indeed: the future wasn't even part of the story and is what made those first Terminator films so great--this horrible thing that we never see. An unseen horror.

Indeed. In hindsight, it would have been better if they stuck with OJ Simpson as originally planned for the title role.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Season 2 of Mozart in the Jungle was released yesterday on Amazon Prime.

Haven't watched it yet, but thought I'd mention it as I really enjoyed the first season myself.

I finally finished Bosch up there myself, I'll go 8.1/10, someone had mentioned it the other day.
 
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DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,443
2,084
126
i need to come to zin's defense.. mostly since *i* am the one who put him in the shit.

T1 is a science fiction/action film .. but it's structured as a horror film.
it's not supposed to amaze you - it's supposed to scare you. (yeah, you are not supposed to root for Arnold, but for Kyle)
the background of the future past, where the terminators have almost eradicated humanity, and human skulls litter the ground, is -hell-.
you do not want to be there. you need to know that if the terminator wins, we are all fucked.

now, what is scifi? action scifi? pewpew lazors bwzzzap! laser swords! cool spaceships!
it's a future you WANT to be in.

T1 was brilliant because it was, back in those days, one of the first dark sci-fi films. if you wanted anything else like it, you needed to suffer through "the message".
think The Day After, or Boy And His Dog. Not just dark scifi, but also a theme that we all need to be good and do what we are told or else, brought to you by the local commission against graffiti vandalism.

T1 is a action/scifi film. but if you cannot see the horror elements in it, you are blind.
(just to hammer it in, most action scifi are structured "good guy gets pissed off, thinks ok bad guy, i'm coming for you, then goes there and kills him, the end". in T1 the good guys are running the fuck away from the terminator, not *at him*.)
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
You're all wrong. T1 is a romantic comedy. A movie about time traveling robots and a guy who goes back in time to sex up a woman who births the guy who sends him back...both laughable and not at all sciencey whiency.

There...feel better?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
I wasn't going get into the T1 thing, but I'd call it Speculative Fiction.

Harlan Ellison used that term in general for things he has written in general, and even sued over T1 for copyright infringement.

Why he has a nod in the end credits.

It wasn't a lot, but Harlan has always been like Lucas when anyone infringes on anything.

http://www.jamescamerononline.com/Ellison.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_Ellison

I thought when I watched "In Time" myself there would be another lawsuit.

There was, but it was patched over I guess.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,834
5,713
126
i need to come to zin's defense.. mostly since *i* am the one who put him in the shit.

T1 is a science fiction/action film .. but it's structured as a horror film.
it's not supposed to amaze you - it's supposed to scare you. (yeah, you are not supposed to root for Arnold, but for Kyle)
the background of the future past, where the terminators have almost eradicated humanity, and human skulls litter the ground, is -hell-.
you do not want to be there. you need to know that if the terminator wins, we are all fucked.

now, what is scifi? action scifi? pewpew lazors bwzzzap! laser swords! cool spaceships!
it's a future you WANT to be in.

T1 was brilliant because it was, back in those days, one of the first dark sci-fi films. if you wanted anything else like it, you needed to suffer through "the message".
think The Day After, or Boy And His Dog. Not just dark scifi, but also a theme that we all need to be good and do what we are told or else, brought to you by the local commission against graffiti vandalism.

T1 is a action/scifi film. but if you cannot see the horror elements in it, you are blind.
(just to hammer it in, most action scifi are structured "good guy gets pissed off, thinks ok bad guy, i'm coming for you, then goes there and kills him, the end". in T1 the good guys are running the fuck away from the terminator, not *at him*.)

this is actually arguing against zim, so thanks for the support :thumbsup:

but you don't have a film degree so your opinion is moot :thumbsdown:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,090
146
i need to come to zin's defense.. mostly since *i* am the one who put him in the shit.

T1 is a science fiction/action film .. but it's structured as a horror film.
it's not supposed to amaze you - it's supposed to scare you. (yeah, you are not supposed to root for Arnold, but for Kyle)
the background of the future past, where the terminators have almost eradicated humanity, and human skulls litter the ground, is -hell-.
you do not want to be there. you need to know that if the terminator wins, we are all fucked.

now, what is scifi? action scifi? pewpew lazors bwzzzap! laser swords! cool spaceships!
it's a future you WANT to be in.

T1 was brilliant because it was, back in those days, one of the first dark sci-fi films. if you wanted anything else like it, you needed to suffer through "the message".
think The Day After, or Boy And His Dog. Not just dark scifi, but also a theme that we all need to be good and do what we are told or else, brought to you by the local commission against graffiti vandalism.

T1 is a action/scifi film. but if you cannot see the horror elements in it, you are blind.
(just to hammer it in, most action scifi are structured "good guy gets pissed off, thinks ok bad guy, i'm coming for you, then goes there and kills him, the end". in T1 the good guys are running the fuck away from the terminator, not *at him*.)

ha, no worries man. Believe me: I've brought that up dozens of times on these forums--and certainly in this thread.

The other movie people here have said it, too. I'm not the only one. Just look at our fearless OP of this here thread.

In the end, this kind of discussion doesn't mean anything. I simply responded, when suggested that I had no credentials, that I actually do, and of course now my credentials don't matter.

because, the internet. :D

I just like how purebeast has gone full on emperus and eits with his "nuh uh because!" stance.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
A Boy and His Dog was one of the earlier dark ones also.

Harlan wrote that one of course.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Nice example there, it's dated, but still very interesting.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,090
146
this is actually arguing against zim, so thanks for the support :thumbsup:

but you don't have a film degree so your opinion is moot :thumbsdown:

I wonder how I am supposed to respond to "Yeah, I bet he's never seen a horror movie, so he doesn't know!"

You know that it is an appeal to authority, right?

So when I respond with--"yes, I've likely seen more films than you, far more genres than you, and spent more time studying them, and this is how"....now you accuse me of hiding behind some stupid film degree?

You claim that you know more, for reasons, I make a reasonable retort that shows quite possibly otherwise, and now it no longer matters that, yes--I actually do know more about this than you--because you still think this is that.

Again, I don't care what you think. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to change your mind. Something was brought up, I pointed you to some arguments, made some of my own, and you are still "uh uh!" Perk cherry pics lines hilariously out of context, and you guys giggle like little schoolgirls.

Again--I don't care. It's just very strange that when I actually am the only one putting forth an argument, I get attacked for it, without a single piece of argument against me.

How do you propose that I respond when you make direct requests for me to "prove my credentials?"

Quite simply, do you even understand how this works? Have you been hanging out with emperus this week or something? :hmm:
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,834
5,713
126
I wonder how I am supposed to respond to "Yeah, I bet he's never seen a horror movie, so he doesn't know!"

You know that it is an appeal to authority, right?

So when I respond with--"yes, I've likely seen more films than you, far more genres than you, and spent more time studying them, and this is how"....now you accuse me of hiding behind some stupid film degree?

You claim that you know more, for reasons, I make a reasonable retort that shows quite possibly otherwise, and now it no longer matters that, yes--I actually do know more about this than you--because you still think this is that.

Again, I don't care what you think. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to change your mind. Something was brought up, I pointed you to some arguments, made some of my own, and you are still "uh uh!" Perk cherry pics lines hilariously out of context, and you guys giggle like little schoolgirls.

Again--I don't care. It's just very strange that when I actually am the only one putting forth an argument, I get attacked for it, without a single piece of argument against me.

How do you propose that I respond when you make direct requests for me to "prove my credentials?"

Quite simply, do you even understand how this works? Have you been hanging out with emperus this week or something? :hmm:

there is nothing for me to argue really - your own links are the argument for me - look at the quotes posted from all of them a few posts ago. they all are calling it a sci-fi or action film first. i also already stated that the genre is stated on imdb.

you are actually the one going "nuh uh - because i said so" not me. you are more along the lines of "nuh uh, i have a film degree so i know better so i'm right". not sure what you are talking about with me asking you to prove your credentials, i never said that once. in fact, you are the one who brought up your film degree not me. you're the one trying to use it as the "end all be all" not me.

and for the record, i'm not saying it doesn't have horror elements, because as mentioned, that would be retarded because that is obvious. i'm saying that it's not a flat out "horror movie", as in, it's primary genre is not horror. even your articles you linked to agree.

but as you said, this is all a semantics argument anyways and pointless in the end. and the comparison to eits isn't even fair at all. if i was the only one saying it's NOT a horror movie, then you'd be on to something, but that is not the case.
 
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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
The whole T1 things is getting a bit protracted considering the thread.

In the Heart of the Sea 8.3/10.

Well worth watching I'd say.
 

A Casual Fitz

Diamond Member
May 16, 2005
4,654
1,018
136
Ex machina - 3/10. Truly awful, excruciatingly slow and pointless movie, but good effects and reasonably good performances within the awful script. A good thirty minutes of interest crammed into two hours. Neither of us cared one whit about any of the characters; we wanted them all dead, preferably horribly. The opening was dull, the climax moved with the breathtaking speed of molasses in January, the denouement seemed rather pointless, and everything in between was aggressively meh. It's evidently supposed to make you think seriously about the ethics and dangers of artificial intelligence, but it merely made us long for some artificial intelligence in making movies.

I share this sentiment.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
8,782
2,297
136
The whole T1 things is getting a bit protracted considering the thread.

In the Heart of the Sea 8.3/10.

Well worth watching I'd say.
Yes. I thought that was quite good. It didn't win over a lot of critics and I can't remember what their problem with it was, but I thought it was good entertainment and I liked the "true story" angle. Although I'm sure much of it was fiction, I assume at least the major plot points aligned with the history as related to Melville.

edit: Also, you got a really graphic demonstration of just how barbarous the practice was. I don't think it was intended as such but it could easily be a Green Peace or PETA recruitment video.
 
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