linux

[willstay]

"most of the benefits aren't on the surface" is true. It took me 7 days to configure Radiator (flavor of RADIUS) on RetHat 9 to authenticate Tenor VoIP Gateway with database on MSSQL (on w2k). I know if there was Windows equivalent, it would have installed by itself; would have crashed few of the times; and would have cost me more than Gateway itself. Now once configured, it runs so smooth that I fear I will have forgotten how to configure it when it finally goes down.

 

[Nothinman]

Now once configured, it runs so smooth that I fear I will have forgotten how to configure it when it finally goes down.

I've had that happen to me a few times, I set something up once and it runs for so long that I forget what all I had to do to get it working and I end up reading the docs all over again.

 

[drag]

Ya.. That's why you make comments, notes and backup your configs you worked hard on. Unfortunately I've just started doing that.

I have forgotten more then I will ever know.

But it's the same thing in everything computer-wise. Everything moves so fast that what you know now, what it takes months for you to figure out... a twelve year old will be able to do better and faster a few years from now.

Take ripping CDs for instance and building a digital audio library. Or running a database... At one point that was serious mojo.. now I can install one for free in under 4 minutes and it's about as good as any high-dollar software.
(postgresql or firebird/Interbase, or Sysbase even if you want.)

At one point even compiling a operating system from scratch was hardcore.. Now entire leagons of Gentoo users do it in under a weekend.

 

[daniel49]

update: well according to my book that modem wizard wasn't the place to try to detect modem from. so went where they instructed me to in knoppix and tried and I was able to detect it under unsupported winmodems but after that it offers no suggestions or help.
it correctly id'ed however as a pcTel micromodem.... but no other ID then that so pulled modem out and the chipset is PCT789T-C1 (pctel hsp 56 micromodem) am still looking for a page that says in english this is the linux driver for this modem that works and then a page that walks me trough my first linux driver install that is written in english not linuxese.

on the playing cd problem after messing with kscd player for quite a while including playing with config options never could get it to play. Finally I opened the drive where cd with mp3's was with context menu and then accesing the mp3 itselfs context menu saw an open with and it gives 3 options...kscd, xms,and video app (can't remember the name right now as they are all foriegn to me) well they opened with xms and vid player but still not with kscd player.(which I had been trying to use all along, it does say cd player right

I found autoplay on kscd but no go haven't found it on the others yet to try and get an autoresponse on insert.

tried a couple of the Games they were ok.

Haven't spent as much time messing with it as I would like to yet as I am still struggling with a back injury which makes it hard to sit long suppose to get a cortizone shot soon hopefully that will help...but back to subject....when ubuntu arrives am thinking of setting it up on a blank hd slaved off main hd that is running xp.

dan

 

[daniel49]

shameless bump for update on last page

 

[Enfer Singe]

Originally posted by: daniel49
when ubuntu arrives

Don't wait to long, if you have high speed internet, download it. Everyone I have talked to who has ordered disks hasn't gotten them. I ordered them maybe a month or 2 before it was even released and never recieved them.

 

[Nothinman]

if you have high speed internet, download it.

Considering the fact that he keeps talking about getting a WinModem working, I doubt he has high-speed access.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

if you have high speed internet, download it.

Considering the fact that he keeps talking about getting a WinModem working, I doubt he has high-speed access.

throwing more peanuts to the squirrels.... faster make my modem faster
I wish I had high speed but its not available here other then satellite if I could get dsl or cable i would

 

[Bozo]

Well, this thread gave me the urge to tyr Linux again. I downloaded Mandrake 10.1. I installed it on my Supermicro P4SCT+II, P4 3.0Ghz, 2Gb Corsair, ATI Radeon 9600, and Santa Cruz sound card.
Right off the bat Mandrake informed me that it does not have drivers for ATI card unless I buy their premium OS. Okay, the generic drivers seem to be working fine.
It took me two tries to get Mandrake installed as it doesn't inform you that you MUST create a user account.
Whoever said this could be installed in 30 minutes must have a very slow clock. Total time was about and hour, not counting the first attempt.
After getting to the desktop, I tried to get on the net. Mandrake informed me that it needed files from the DVD. Okay, that went pretty smooth. But I don't understand why they were not installed by default.
When I got on the net, I went to a site that needed Flashplayer. I never did get Flashplayer installed even though I tried everything in the instructions and readme files. I gave up after an hour.
I never got the sound card to work either.
After two hours of being totally frustrated, I shut down the system and went back to Server 2003.
Linux is not ready for prime time. It's not user friendly! I really fail to see what all the hype is about. Trying to install drivers and applications should not be time consumming and tedious. It's worse than NT 3.0

Bozo

 

[nweaver]

Look, sit a NON COMPUTER USER in front of a computer with Linux or windows. I think the learning curve is about the same, with the exception of if you have learned one or the other. Want to configure DNS? I can do that in VI in about 2 minutes. Takes me 10 in windows. Also, the Linspire install was INCREDIBLY simple (too simple for me). And whining about the modem support can go both ways. There is hardware that is unsupported in XP. get an older soundcard, that is unsupported, and make a novice windows user find/install drivers. to spend 2 hours on Linux and claim it's "not ready for prime time" is....trying to think of a non flame word....wrong. It's like me spending 2 hours getting 2k3 server up and running with my service, not getting it all configured and saying "I spent 2 hours on something I don't know much about, so it must not work at all and is not ready for anyone".

If you can't swap a VW engine in 2 hours, does that mean the VW's aren't ready for primetime? (I have seen engine swaps in less then 30 minutes. There are contests).

Again, different strokes.....and tools. Somet things I will always run on windows, some things I will use Linux./unix/Mac.

I installed Linspire in 20 minutes, and clicked the Mozilla icon and it was on the web, So linux is ready for Primetime.
I installed Win2k3 server on a machine, and it didn't have network drivers, it took me an hour to install and find drivers and transfer them to the machine to get the card installed, so it's not ready for primetime. (Please realize my sarcasm)

 

[Nothinman]

Whoever said this could be installed in 30 minutes must have a very slow clock

I don't believe anyone said anything about Mandriva and the install time is largely determined by the amount of packages selected and I would bet that Mandriva comes with a pretty big default set.

Linux is not ready for prime time. It's not user friendly! I really fail to see what all the hype is about. Trying to install drivers and applications should not be time consumming and tedious. It's worse than NT 3.0

The fact that you're already familiar with Windows makes the comparison irrelevant. And install apps isn't tedious, I just type 'apt-get install <packagename>' or run a UI like dselect, aptitude, etc and find the package in there. Generally installing things on Linux is a lot simpler and less problematic than on Windows.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Bozo
Whoever said this could be installed in 30 minutes must have a very slow clock. Total time was about and hour, not counting the first attempt.

You're more than welcome to come watch me install Linux or OpenBSD some day.

 

[daniel49]

well from the reading I have done so far its looking like trying to get a normal modem to work in linux is more trouble then its worth. So looking around a little on newegg i see this external seriel modem from us robotics for 80.00? which would probably be supported??
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16825104135
wait a minute 80.00 for a modem thought low cost was a linux advantage....sigh
:Q

 

[Nothinman]

Normal modems work just fine, it's WinModems that suck. External modems are the best you can get, you're sure it's doing hardware process and you just tell Linux to use the serial port you plugged the modem into.

 

[nweaver]

$80 is still less then the $199 suggested retail price of windows...add your favorite Open source office app, and you now save a TON (office is vastly overpriced)

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: nweaver
$80 is still less then the $199 suggested retail price of windows...add your favorite Open source office app, and you now save a TON (office is vastly overpriced)

sorry only paid 89 for xp. yes but you can get free office apps with windows also just not microsoft office.

define normal please maybe a couple of links nothingman would be appreciated

 

[Nothinman]

By normal I meant real, most internal modems these days are WinModems that do all of the analog to digital conversion in software in the driver, real modems just act as serial ports and do all of the conversion in hardware. WinModems require extra magic in the driver and thus are harder to make work if the company making them won't give out specs on the hardware, external modems 'just work' since you just give them AT commands via the serial port.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Normal modems are hardware modems. Generally serial modems are your best bet. They're a bit more expensive, but they do more too. Hell, I probably have a couple of viking modems lying around the house somewhere.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Normal modems are hardware modems. Generally serial modems are your best bet. They're a bit more expensive, but they do more too. Hell, I probably have a couple of viking modems lying around the house somewhere.

well put one on the ship with leif and oly and send it over...lol
guy here I know said even with seriel modems I was better to go with us robotics because it was more universally accepted? would you say thats true?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Normal modems are hardware modems. Generally serial modems are your best bet. They're a bit more expensive, but they do more too. Hell, I probably have a couple of viking modems lying around the house somewhere.

well put one on the ship with leif and oly and send it over...lol
guy here I know said even with seriel modems I was better to go with us robotics because it was more universally accepted? would you say thats true?

I got a name brand (can't remember which name though ) modem, and it didn't work quite as well as the viking modem I had. But USR should be ok.

 

[nweaver]

find a linux HCL (I think linuxquestions.org has one) and find a modem that is recemended. Might want to see if there is a distro specific list ( I think Suse has one, I know they have "Novell Suse Yes tested", but they don't test the modem.)

 

[cleverhandle]

If you need a modem, I'd try ebaying one. The old external ones were built like tanks - I have a "V.Everything" USR model that I bought well-used, used for about 4 more years, and still occasionally bring out for service. It works better than any of the cheapo internal ones I've tried. I see an external V.90 on ebay right now for $10 ending in two hours with no bids.

 

[Budman]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I've never had problems with 2k, Mac OS X, and various flavors of samba (all together in one clusterfsck of a network). But XP eludes me. I just need to spend more than 2 minutes on it I guess. :sigh;

Funny I never had any problems with file sharing in XP myself.

Maybe this Link can help you.

 

[LBmtb]

Another benefit of Linux that no one has mentioned is Samba.

File server/print server/wins server/ that is completely free (not just the program, but you dont have to pay Microsoft client access liscences which you have to do with Windows 2003), very well supported and documented, much more stable and reliable then Windows, and just about immune to spyware/worms/virii - which can come in handy when lots of files are shared.

All these people saying "I tried linux but didnt know how to do x and didnt want to have to read documentation" dont really realize what they're saying. It's almost like learning a new language. You've grown up and used Windows forever so of course you know how to configure a network connection or something. Yes it takes some time to learn linux but IMO that just weeds out the lazy people . Once you get decent at running Linux you'll come to appreciate the security, reliable, the fact that it's open source, and come to realize that Linux, unlike Windows with all the DLL's and registry and what not is a lot more straight forward and easier to troubleshoot.

If the learning curve scares you then go ahead and stay away. That will just make getting a job as a Linux admin all the more easier since there's less competition