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Linux- want to get started*****edit: comments on new plan******

G

ginfest

Golden Member
Hi,
I want to install and learn Linux.
My 1st 2 ??:
How much hard drive space is needed? I want triple boot with WinME/Win2K. I don't plan to have Linux as my #1 OS, just want to learn the ins and outs as I'm currently disabled and have plenty of time on my hands. I have a 20 GB IBM with C and D, also a 6 GB IBM (E)for swap file and Ghost images of C and D. Should I buy a new HD, and how should it be partitioned for a Linux experiment?
2nd, which version/build to get started?
Any other comments or tips welcome,
TIA,
Mike G

edit: see my last post in the thread re: a 3rd blank HD for Linux
comments welcome
 
1st: Look around the web for some good Linux documentation. www.linuxdoc.org and www.linuxnewbie.org both have good documentation and linuxnewbie has some very helpful people on their BBS. If you want to get a book, I'd suggest Running Linux 3rd edition from Oreilly. It really is a great overall Linux book.

2nd: I would suggest a Redhat distro either version 6.2 or higher. They have a very easy to use installation program and it has alot of additional programs to get you started.

3rd: As far as drive space is concerned, I would suggest about 2GB for Linux. That should cover all of the Redhat packages if you do a full install. You may want to eventually want more space but why spend more money for a hard drive for an OS you may not like!

4th: Now comes the somewhat tricky part; getting all the OSs to play nicely🙂 You have many different options and I'm sure you will get many varying opinions on this so here are my 2 cents. I would install WinME on the first 5 or 6 GB or so. WinMe will take over your master boot sector so you want to do that first. Win2k's bootloader to be installed last will allow you to choose between the different OSs. Then install Linux on the next 2 GB. In order for linux to boot, it's boot partition needs to be within the first 8GB of the hard drive. There are other, more complicated ways around this, but for simplicity, just try to make Linux within the first 8GB. You only really need 2 partitions for Linux, a swap partition(equal to the amount of RAM you have) and another partition for everything else. Most Linux gurus would slap me silly now for telling you only 2 partitions but for simplicity sake and to just learn, this is good enough. Make SURE you install LILO to the Linux partition and not the master boot record! (Redhat install will prompt you for that also) This will be important for triple booting later. Then install Win2k in the remaining drive. It will see the other partitions so just install into the remaining space. To get Linux to boot from Win2k's bootloader, goto http://www.enterprisedt.com/publications/dual_boot.html .
This is where I'm not sure what to do about WinMe. I think Win2k will see WinME and make a selection in the bootloader to allow to boot to it. Hopefully, someone out there will post a good link as to how to do this.

And you're done! Just make sure you create a Linux boot disk during install(redhat will prompt you to). Otherwise, you won't be able to get into Linux until the above Win2k boot link is installed.

Hope this helps! Good luck!!
 
Thanx, I'll repartition and get started this week. I'm sure that I'll be back again with more ??? but I checked a couple Linux pages out on the web, plenty of study to keep me busy.
Mike G

edit: I'm curious if I can just install Linux to a 2nd HD, and use the Linux boot-loader to pick which OS to boot? Sent you a private mail also,
Thanx again
 


<< edit: I'm curious if I can just install Linux to a 2nd HD, and use the Linux boot-loader to pick which OS to boot? >>



Sure can. When you get to the part to install LILO tell it you want to install on the boot loader of the first disk (referred to as /dev/hda). Don't know what issues you'll run into with Win2k, but I'm doing it just fine w/ WinME. ME installed on the primary drive, Linux on the secondary, LILO on the primary allowing me to choose which OS I wanna boot when I startup.
 
You may want to just skip the LILO or Grub Install and boot from a floppy instead and then create a bootcd and use it untill you decide if Linux is a keeper for you. You can configure LILO or GRUB or the NT bootloader at a later time if you want to. Download and try all the distros of Linux untill you find one you like.

Rain
 
Great Perry, now about the 2nd HD (E:\ in Windows), its 1 partition, do I need to separate into the Linux swap partition and another /home partition? I've been reading, but am confused I think. What I've gathered, Linux need at least 2 partitions? And can I assume the 2nd harddrive will be oblivious to Windows after the Linux install, or will it still show up under Explorer as E:\? If I split the 2nd HD into 2 or more partitions for Linux, what will Windows &quot;see&quot;, if anything?
To clarify a little, right now HD 1 is C and D, hardrive 2 is E. CD-Rom is F, CDR-RW is G. What drive letters will Win see if I put Linux on E, which will maybe be split even further depending on what Linux needs partition-wise?. Hope my confusion isn't making the ??? confused, Thanx for any help,
Mike G

Edit : Raincity, I d/l ISO of Mandrake 2 CDs 650MB and 350MB, you mean just use the Linux CD in Windows to make a boot floppy, then boot with this and run Linux off the Mandrake CD? If that's what your saying, it sounds like the best way for me to learn the OS. That will leave my C, D, E, F, G alone, no hassle untill I decide on a permanent Linux set-up.
 
When you install Mandrake it will prompt you to make a boot floppy disc during the end of the install Process. Just create a bootcd using the files from this floppy using a burning program like EZCD. Using a bootcd will save some wear and tear of your floppy drive and will boot just as fast as the hardrive. Doing this will save you the hassle of trying to get rid of LILO or GRUB off the MBR if you decide Linux is not for you.

Rain
 
OK, I get the Boot CD, but my ?? about the drives, Just leave the 2ND HD (E:\) empty, install Mandrake to it, or further split it up into 2 or more partitions then install Linux? And by doing this, it will change the drive letters in Win? What will Win &quot;see&quot; as drive letters, assuming Mandrake on the second HD?

ps; I know I'm confused, the end result is my winME/Win2K work fine, although I want to learn Linux, I don't want to screw a working setup to do it. This drive letters thing has me confused to no end!
 
I forgot to add that Mandrake 7.1 and higher is not bound by the 1024 cylinder issue so you can install it anywhere on any of your hardrives and just reformat over it if you dont like it.

Rain
 
Win2 will still see the drive letter but you wont be able to access the drive. Trying to access the drive in Win2k will give you a need to format the drive message. I think you will loose the drive letter in Winme but Im not sure. I dont run Win98 anymore. I believe that Win98 will pick up the drive letter again is you reformat back to fat32.

Rain
 
Linux uses a different format?? (duh on me) In Other words, E (2nd HD) is already formatted in fat 32, will the Linux install re-format it? I know this is getting complicated, as soon as I can get out of the house, I'll pick-up &quot;Using Linux&quot; and another book I saw, I assume these books will describe dual-booting, partitioning, etc.
Thanx for your help and tips, I can see that my lack of knowledge is too much for just forum Q&amp;A, I gotta study this stuff 1st.
Thanx again,
Mike G
 
What program did you use to setup your current drives and partitions ? Fdisk or the Win2k Diskpart tool. If you used Fdisk, Mandrake will want to install to the extendend partition killing all the logical drives created in that partition. If you used the Win2k diskpart tool then you can just install Mandrake to one of the drive letters you want Mandrake to reside in since the Diskpart tool creates multiple partitions with one logical drive in each partition versus Fdisk uses one extended partition and creates multiple logical drives in the same paritition. When you install Mandrake use the Diskdrake option when you get to the partition and format part of the install. Diskdrake will is easy to use and you will be able to see your partitions and the file format. You should be able to indentify the Windows drive letter that you want to install Mandrake on by its size capacity listed in Diskdrake. Click on the desired drive and let diskdrake auto configure your Linux root/swap/home partitions for you. It will auto allocate using the availble size in that partition. It will then format it for you and continue with the install. The rest of the install is pretty straight forward. During the end of the install when you need to configure up Xwindow. Try using low settings like 600/800 rez in 16 million colors the gradually increase the settings and retest untill you get it to your scree rez to your prefence. Trying to to use the high rez settings on the first test usually will cause Xwindow to crash and will just keep crashing no matter what settings you try. Also say no to the letting Mandrake boot into Xwindow upon startup during the setup. When you boot into Mandrake for the first time you will get a longon screen first then a command prompt after logon is completed. At the command prompt type in startX then enter and you will taken right into the KDE desktop. I would wait on the books and just read and research online first. Getting devices installed in Linux is different than windows since there is no self installer. Dont give up on it right away. Take your time reading the text docs. You should be able to get it up and running after a few weeks. Dont get discourged if all your hardware is not configured right after the install. Linux presents a new set of challenges to master. Stick with it. Is it worth it ?, only you can decide that.

Rain
 
Comments on my new plan? I'll add a 3rd HD unformated, to the secondary IDE controller. I'lll boot the Linux CD, maybe Mandrake, possibly leaning now towards Redhat. After booting, the CD install will see all 3 drives, I'll direct it to the 3rd empty drive, partion, format and install Linux? this should leave my other OSes alone? Will this work?

When I want to boot Linux, I'll just CD boot, or Boot floppy, no messin' with my other stuff, I can learn Linux at my leisure?
If I like it and it makes sense for me, I'll then install LILO to skip the boot from CD/Floppy step?

LMK what you think.
TIA,
Mike G
 
After rereading one of your posts I see that you want to repartition and reset up everthing. Clear your MBR first to kill off the partition info then boot using the win2k cd and select the repair option then console and type in diskpart from the command line. If your planning to format any of the drives in NTFS then just create and format one drive only for Winme and leave the rest of the drive unallocated. When you set up Winme, Winme will want to configure and partition the rest of your drive space. Select no and run the Winme install. After Winme is done, boot from the Win2k again and run diskpart and create the drives for Win2k Linux and any other drives you may want for storage. Format them and run the win2k setup. The format command from the Console command line is X: /fs:fat32 or X: /fs:ntfs depending what file format you want the drives in, replace X: with proper drive letter. You can now install Linux on one of the drives and if you dont like it, you can use diskdrake to remove the Linux partitions within that drive and reformat it again without disturbing your current Windows setup.

Rain
 
No, actually I originally wanted to just try out Linux w/o messing with my stable WinME/Win2K install and apps. LMK if the 3rd HD option will work/makes sense, not worried about the cost, I need a new HD anyway.
the Linux stuff is for the learning experience while still having my other OSes when needed
 
That will also work. You could also dissconect the other drives first then install Linux and install LILO or Grub to the MBR and just change your boot sequence in the bios to boot from the secondary controller when you want to boot into Linux. Dissconecting the other drives before the install will stop you from configuring LILO or Grub wrong.

Rain
 
Great, that's the way I'll go.
What do you mean configure Lilo wrong? Won't it just install to the MBR of the 3rd drive and be &quot;activated&quot; when I boot from the CD or the floppy (or 2nd IDE option in the BIOS) everytime?
Oh oh, getting confused again. I might have to disconnect, although i'd rather not, depending on your answer
Mike G

ps; thanx for you help and patience Rain, great guy and deserving of the Gold status
 
No I did not want you to get confused and accidently install LILO to the MBR of the drive that both of your Windows OS reside on. You can install LILO there but its a bitch to get rid of it without damaging the partition architexture. Just dissconect the Windows hardrive and run the install. LILO or GRUB will always install to the Primary Master MBR unless you configure it to not to.

Rain
 
You may also want to install two or three Linux distros on that hardrive and play with them all and just create a bootcd for each of them. Mandrake is Redhat with KDE exstensions added to it. If your brave try Mandrake or Redhat and then Caldera or Corel then Debian. If you can get Debian up and running with ease then you you deserve the supergeek status.

Rain
 
you don't need to remove the windows drives to install Linux on a totally seperate hard drive. During Redhat install, just select the new, blank or non-blank &quot;to be erased&quot; hard drive. Drives under linux are lettered:

primary master: hda
primary slave: hdb
secondary master: hdc
secondary slave: hdd

Then install Linux on whatever your new drive is. You will create a boot floppy during the install. Redhat will ASK where you want to install LILO. If you select the first sector of your Linux hard drive then you will not mess up your Windows booting at all. If you put in the Linux boot disk, Linux will boot, otherwise, Windows will boot as usual. That's the easiest way.

How are you booting to windows now? if you are using Win2k's bootloader to dual boot ME or 2k, just add a line to your boot.ini as per the link I gave above and you can boot to all 3 OSs using Win2k.

That is basically how I do it but I don't have WinME at all. I use Win2k on my primary master HD and another HD for Linux. When I boot, I select which OS I want to boot in Win2k's bootloader and that's it.

Hope this helps....
 
Again, great answers guys, I'm on my way. I'll post back in a couple days, hopefully from my Linux setup!
Once again, Thanx
Mike G
 
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