Linux newbie -- Where do I begin???

PSUlion01

Member
Apr 27, 2003
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Well I've installed Mandrake 9.2 with basically every option and now I feel lost. I can surf the web, check my email, etc etc but I'm clueless when it comes to navigating through the file system and installing new software. I wanted to download some things off KDE-Look.org (karamba based apps) and can't get crap installed. I've done the ./configure, make, make install sequence but get errors saying Python directory can't be found, even though python is installed. Then I read the install text for superkaramba and it says a binary is included and to try running that before trying to compile anything. Problem is that I can't seem to find the binary!

I've always considered myself pretty savy with computers and I've taught myself everything I know (learned years ago on DOS and have followed things ever since). Not into programming but want to learn. I feel totally lost with Linux, to the point where I feel like I don't even know how to operate a computer!!

How do I get started... I've searched for help and newbie sites/threads, but it seems like every distrobution and every individual install/configuration is totally unique and there is no conformity (as there appears to be in windows). Can anyone suggest the best way to get my feet wet and actually learn the basics (how to navigate, what files are what i.e. extensions are what?, how to install something downloaded and then load the program, etc).

Thanks!!
Mike
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Well the conformity happens down underneath.

For installing applications you have some options. You can download the source code, like it seems you do, and you have to compile it and install it that way. What most people choose to do is to install recompiled binaries for everything.

Mandrake uses rpm file package managment. And these are basicly tarballs (tar.gz files) with extra bunch of stuff added in for the dependances and package management.

Mandrake has a tool to facilitate installing applicatations and it is called urpmi. here is a description of it. But I don't like it as much as Apt or Yum. Apt is used in Debian and ported to Fedora and Redhat. Fedora officially supports Yum, which originates from yellow dog linux (PowerPC (macs basicly) port distro for linux.)

With urpmi you can add several online sources that contain programs and updates and you can use it to install programs and make it will automaticly download and configure dependances (such as python) along with your programs that you want.

here is a FAQ for urpmi. Unfortunately Mandrake doesn't do a good job supporting urpmi. You can find mirrors on Mandrake's website that you can use with urpmi, but it's hard to find, because it's so poorly orginized

When I setup Mandrake for a freind I just used the example from that FAQ text file.

Also you can add more sources that may have programs for mandrake not officially aviable for Mandrake.

also here is a "easy urpmi" page, but it's not up to date

Most distros are much better at supporting their non-paying users then Mandrake is. Personally I prefer Debian or Gentoo for more serious workstation, but Mandrake can be setup and installed with very little knowledge, so it's recommended for a first-timer.

Umm....

The command line in linux is a Bash shell. Bash is the default shell for Linux, but their are others. It is probably the most powerfull user interface aviable... From the command line you can easily control and manipulate every aspect of the operating system. Most gui configuration programs are basicly front ends, or at least emulate, the stuff you would have to go thru on the command line without them.

Since you know DOS, this shouldn't be that big of a deal to adapt to using. Dos CLI was basicly a stripped down version of earlier Unix shells. (Xenix was the very first OS that MS sold. A unix for 386-type machines)

A example page for beginneers

You can find many examples of stuff like that web page. Do a search for "linux newbie" on google.

This is the Linux documentation site, Bunches and bunches of guides and howtos ranging from configuring X to a network administration guide. Most of those however, expect a passing knowledge of linux.


The unfortunate thing about Mandrake, Suse, and Redhat/Fedora is that in the attempt to make everything very user friendly they make the underlining stuff a bit to complicated, not realy expecting anybody to mess around with that stuff a whole lot.

They make it so that you can still easily use the OS without any knowledge of bash or command line or any of that stuff. So in order to do that they automate a great deal of the OS, which unfortunately can conflict with ham-fisted sort of adminstration that happens a lot when people fiddle around when learning the stuff.

Distros like Slackware make a great learning experiance. Slackware is a kinda no-frills sort of distro that assumes you just want the quick and dirty way of doing everything and keeps configuration tools to a minimum. Other distros like that are Debian or Gentoo, but their package managers are all-encompasing, and can interfere. Slackware is the best (just my opinion) learning distro for people who want the crash-course in Linux, also it's the most Unix-like distro.

On the flip side, though, Mandrake is about the easiest way to getting a fully working desktop enviroment, set up quickly.

Try this page if you want

A basic understanding of the directory tree is critical for a deep understanding of how GNU/Linux operating systems work

heres a detailed veiw of the current Filesystem standard(distros are getting better and better at sticking to this at it matures, but their are always a few suprises

Bash scripting (or programming) is nice to know, it makes it easy to automate things and you then can look at scripts commonly used in most distros to get a understanding how things work


their is lots and lots to learn if you want to. It's not neccissary to know everything to just run the operating system. But I like fooling around with everything all the time, and it's nice to know this stuff. Since everything is completely open all the time, you can realy get in deep and modify everything to your personal specificiations if you want.

Also google is very helpfull for finding answers, and it makes it easy to find stuff once you get the grammer and terms down.

Google also has a Linux-specific search engine

Also vivisimo is new and makes it VERY easy to find accurate results quickly

(oh, in linux a file extention is just a convienence for humans. Many programs depend on proper file extention for stuff like mp3's and such, but it isn't critical. For example you can't make a file exacutable simply by adding .exe to the back of it's name.)
 

Netopia

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,793
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drag,

What an AWESOME response to a "Linux newbie" looking for help!

Thanks for your support of people in these forums!

Joe
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
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if you want to teach yourself all about the command prompt, I'd strongly recomend checking out "Learning Unix in 24 Hours," and possibly one of the "For Dummies" books for back-up.
 

PSUlion01

Member
Apr 27, 2003
78
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Drag,

awesome info indeed...i'm still reading through everything.

Question for you regarding Mandrake vs. other distros: Am I better off installing something like Slackware or Debian in order to learn? I want to really form an understanding of the OS, not just install and have some shell that I can surf the web and check email on. I was thinking of setting up an FTP server, web server, mail server (for home LAN), etc, in addition to being able to do normal daily tasks such as email and type docs.

Please let me know you thoughts on this... I do want to run something like KDE so it would be something I'd want installed right from the start. I hear many say that Mandrake is good for beginners, but is it good in general (or will I want to scrap it once I have a small clue as to what I'm doing?).

Thanks again for the help!
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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It depends on how you want to go about it. Some people like being thrown into a non-working system and being forced to make everything work from the start, others like to have a working base system where they can selectively install things and make them work one at a time. Installing Debian or Slackware will make you work harder to get the system working completely but Mandrake has a lot of the same things under the hood.

Generally I don't know anyone who runs Mandrake, especially for a server. At work we use RedHat almost exclusively because of the support. I personally put Debian everywhere I can, once you get the hang of Debian most other systems feel like they put a lot of extra work on you.