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Linux for noobs?

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
With the visual changes to the upcoming ubuntu 10.04, what distro should we be recommending to new linux converts?

I have tried the beta of 10.04 and honestly I find the UI hard to get used to, but I can change it quickly, a new user would find this very difficult to do.

So what to pick?

Kubuntu? not the best example of KDE in my experience.
Fedora? Never used it, but I've used redhat.
Suse? it's polished and has control panels for most things.
Mint?

What do you think?
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Personally, I'm going back to debian. But I'm not sure debian is a place to start first time linux users. They don't have a noob friendly community or documentation.
 

Jodell88

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
8,762
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Mandriva. No other distro touches their Control Centre and other tools IMO.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
If you're talking about Ubuntu moving the window management buttons to the left, I thought I read somewhere that it was pretty easy to move them back if you wanted.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
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It is easy as in you can use gconf to do it. However the theme uses shadows so moving them to the right makes their theme look horrid, so you would also need to switch the theme.

This is something I don't want first time users to do. I want them to be familiar with the desktop controls. Most users come from windows and are used to having their buttons on the right.

For me personally, I'm not switching because of the controls. I'm switching because of the attitude that changed the controls. Basically Ubuntu said to the community to screw off. They know this move is unpopular and just creates one more thing people have to fix to use their computer. I'm not going to deal with that. If I wanted to spend time customizing my desktop I would be using gentoo. I want as close to default gnome as is reasonable. I want my applications to all feel like they are part of the same operating system (which is why I like OSX).

But this is not really about me, it's about what I will recommend to people asking me where to go to get their feet wet with linux. From now on I will not be saying ubuntu.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
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I loaded Fedora on my wife's netbook and she has no problems with it. She's not technical at all. Fedora is getting a lot better with each release, the only problem is that you're going to have to install some codecs.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,106
10,568
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I haven't used 10.04 yet, but button placement isn't a game changer AFAIC. I disagree with that choice, as well as changing the color from brown, but it's easy enough to fix. Until I find out otherwise, Ubuntu will still be the distro I recommend. Personally, I'm going to setup 10.04, and install Debian on a flash drive. I had Debian in a VM on my main rig, but I ran out of room when upgrading to unstable. I want to give it a good workout on my Eee.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
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I haven't used 10.04 yet, but button placement isn't a game changer AFAIC. I disagree with that choice, as well as changing the color from brown, but it's easy enough to fix

Exactly. People change their Windows theme all of the time, why would having to change the Gnome theme be a show-stopper?
 

KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
3,655
0
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Ubuntu 10.04 button placement is a pain the ass. But there are a few ways to move it. Ubuntu tweak (didnt work for me) should be the easiest. gconf is pretty easy too but still a pain.

However, 10.04 beta is very fast, seems they have much better intel gma drivers or kernel or whatever is making it smoother. Boot time is very fast too (for me atleast, some people having problems) about 20 seconds on a 5400RPM HD.

I would try ubuntu its very easy and pretty much any problem you have google can solve.
 

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,046
4
81
I tried Mandriva last night for the first time. Very windows-like and easy to use. Mandriva 2009 didn't seem to like VMware server at all, but 2010 installed fine.

Linuxmint and Mandriva both seem well suited to a linux noob.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
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Excellent article on the 10.04 changes: http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/194

A brief summary of the complaints about the left side window controls

Some of these I noticed myself, a few are gathered from various comment threads on forums and blogs over the past week.

• Because the window title isn’t centered, the window controls being placed directly in front of it put it in a weird indented position
• The “slightly off left” location is inconsistent with Nautilus, Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin, Empathy, and every other tabbed program we have, which have close buttons for their tabs on the right.
• The left position is inconsistent with Windows, previous versions of Ubuntu, and even OSX – users have to relearn decades of muscle memory.
• Users who interact with both Windows and Ubuntu machines (or migrate from Windows) will have a much harder time than they did before.
• The buttons are too close to the file and edit menus, making catastrophic misclicks much more likely. Closing something on accident should be as rare as possible.
• Even without misclicking, a user will have to take more time to use the window control and avoid a misclick. This is an example of Fitt’s Law.
• The close position is also inconsistent with the power button in upper right. Currently, “close it down” is something you can always do from the upper right anywhere in the system: within a tab, within a window, and even for the whole computer. The new window controls break that entirely.
• The new position leaves a lot of empty, wasted space in the upper right of most windows. While strictly speaking the amount of unused space is the same, it looks much worse when it’s all clustered together. When the controls are on the right, the extra space can function as a buffer for the potentially destructive window controls.
• Similarly, the upper left of most windows now becomes much more crowded, creating a rather unpleasing contrast to the relatively empty upper right.
• In previous Ubuntus you could close windows on the left if you really wanted, by expanding the small circle menu that’s now gone entirely. File->Quit is also an option, which is now very close to the close box.
• Gnome upstream has them on the right, causing consistency and developmental problems when we deviate. This is particularly jarring with the adoption of future projects like Gnome shell and Gnome 3, which will change again how we interact with window controls.
• The current implementation breaks themes not designed for the new button order (which is currently every theme we ship, so even changing the theme back doesn’t help)
• A day before User Interface freeze of a long term support release is the worst possible time to suddenly spring this on everyone without explanation.
• It is very difficult to change them back as we don’t have any UI tool for doing this (the current method is manually editing gconf keys)
• The new position doesn’t actually do anything beneficial.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,106
10,568
126
Excellent article on the 10.04 changes: http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/194

They need to ship the Apple wannabe dev off to Mac land, and pickup where they left off. I can't think of a single good reason for the button change. Like I said above, it isn't a game changer, but c'mon. Windows gets accused of changing things for the sake of change, but at least all of MS's changes make some kind of sense to someone. This OTOH....
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
toss a few into virtualbox, low commitment without the cr@p of cd loading and rebooting, hell you can run them all at once:p
 

Paperlantern

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2003
2,239
6
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I love mint myself and use it at work for a off the grid box for personal surfing (using it right now), chat programs, and even virus research. Mint is based on Ubuntu, does anyone know if Mint will follow suit and put their buttons on the left too? Or adhere to everything that makes Mint so great and keep them on the right?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,106
10,568
126
Mint is based on Ubuntu, does anyone know if Mint will follow suit and put their buttons on the left too? Or adhere to everything that makes Mint so great and keep them on the right?

I'm gonna guess that they'll keep them on the right where they belong. Dicking with the buttons is Ubuntu specific, and not related to Gnome in general.

Edit:
Confirmed. The buttons are staying put.

I saw the controversy about the position of the window buttons in Ubuntu 10.04. There’s no plan to change anything in Linux Mint, we’re happy with the buttons staying on the right-hand side and away from the File, Edit, View menus.

http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1335
 
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Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Mint is 99% a theme and preinstalled codecs so sticking to the same Ubuntu theme would make his distro even more pointless.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
they really gotta have the updater in ubuntu separate critical security updates from other stuff.

never mind the browser for the updates is poor, clicking through them to read the description is too slow to be practical, never mind if you are confronted with hundreds.

and this is the "easy" to use linux...lol
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,106
10,568
126
they really gotta have the updater in ubuntu separate critical security updates from other stuff.

never mind the browser for the updates is poor, clicking through them to read the description is too slow to be practical, never mind if you are confronted with hundreds.

and this is the "easy" to use linux...lol

I don't really have issues with the update manager. It separates the different types of updates. The top of the list is most important, then they drop in importance as they go down the list.
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,582
4
81
they really gotta have the updater in ubuntu separate critical security updates from other stuff.

never mind the browser for the updates is poor, clicking through them to read the description is too slow to be practical, never mind if you are confronted with hundreds.

and this is the "easy" to use linux...lol

generally you dont have much to be concerned about when it comes to updates for a given distro release. minor point updates are common but major points or releases with feature changes...not so much.

you really shouldnt have much concern about what update happens to what and why unless youre running some finicky custom software or scripts that require particular versions of things, i should think.

and considering that you can manage all the updates from a central location instead of on a program-by-program basis...yeah Id say its easy. Im using windows 7 now instead of linux for a variety of reasons, and I miss 2 things on a regular basis: compiz (some of the window management functions are great) and aptitude/synaptic/$whatever becausing dealing with software in windows can be such a headache.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
I've always just used aptitude upgrade

I can't say I've ever really held back an upgrade for any reason. Now dist-upgrade, that has required me to be careful.