[LinusTechTips] Fury X vs. Reference 980Ti tested in a small form factor case

RussianSensation

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What I love even more about this short comparison is that finally a professional review site shows that no you do not need a 700-750W PSU to run a flagship 275W GPU on a modern i5/i7 rig. All that's needed is a high quality 500W unit. :p

For years I've been testing my max overclocked i5/i7 CPUs with flagship cards like GTX470, HD6950 unlocked to 6970 and 7970 max OC on my Corsair 520W and it hasn't broken a sweat even once. The FUD needs to stop that one needs a 700W+ PSU to run a 250-300W TDP GPU. High quality modern PSUs are actually rated at their stated power so if a Corsair, Enermax, EVGA, SeaSonic PSU states 550W, it's actually made to run at that power 24/7 @ 50C.

The comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbONfPkwa_s

Wish they tested a lot more games but I think the results speak for themselves -- when the airflow is poor and 980Ti is running close to its max 82-83C boost threshold, it's not a better card than the Fury X.

I realize that for a mid-tower or greater or a water-cooled scenario, an after-market 980Ti + OC is the way to go but for those who don't overclock or only mildly overclock and get a reference 980Ti, this overview is a good one.
 
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Subyman

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AIO is great for getting heat out of the case, so it should excel in an SFF build. SFF builds usually need very particular components, so the EVGA AIO option for the 980TI may be a solution for those wanting to OC in SFF.
 

happy medium

Lifer
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The first thing I'm gonna do when I buy my 650$ gtx980ti is buy a smaller 70$ case to restrict airflow, ah no never mind, that would be stupid.

What an excellent review.
 

tviceman

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I don't know much about the case he used, but my fractal design node 304 case has absolutely zero air flow problems (despite no exhaust vents along the top of the case which in turn traps heat) and is floor-noise quiet with medium fans. My old open-air GTX 780 never got above 75 C during the summer. My current OC'd 980 doesn't breach 70 C with any noticeable fan noise.

I am keeping my eye on the Dan A4 SFX, and I am extremely confident that if I end up getting one there will be absolutely zero air flow or temperature issues running any kind of video card inside that case, and it'll be the smallest case in the world that can house a full-sized graphics card.

EDIT: Waiting for someone to tell me that my post is heavy on claims and light on proof.
 
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tviceman

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What I love even more about this short comparison is that finally a professional review site shows that no you do not need a 700-750W PSU to run a flagship 275W GPU on a modern i5/i7 rig. All that's needed is a high quality 500W unit. :p

Careful, you might be round-about told you are lying. I've been running with a 450 watt PSU for two years now, and my old OC'd 780 + OC'd 4770k ran great. When I talked about how little power my current OC'd 980 rig drew at the wall, I was called out.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
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Careful, you might be round-about told you are lying. I've been running with a 450 watt PSU for two years now, and my old OC'd 780 + OC'd 4770k ran great. When I talked about how little power my current OC'd 980 rig drew at the wall, I was called out.

People way over estimate PSU requirements. It's done to protect from the crap PSU's.

1436520543zZMsl7GpwE_8_1.gif

This is with a highly O/C'd CPU (3770 @ 4.8GHz).
 

RussianSensation

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I don't know much about the case he used, but my fractal design node 304 case has absolutely zero air flow problems (despite no exhaust vents along the top of the case which in turn traps heat) and is floor-noise quiet with medium fans. My old open-air GTX 780 never got above 75 C during the summer. My current OC'd 980 doesn't breach 70 C with any noticeable fan noise.

It also depends a lot on your ambient temperatures too. I've pointed out for years and years how almost no one should buy a reference blower card unless they are water-cooling or going Tri/Quad SLI and this review proves it. Blowers are inferior cooling tech and it's evident even without overclocking:

74806.png


For someone going SFF, Fury X beats a reference 980Ti. We've also seen from other reviews how 980Ti SLI performance takes a serious hit in performance due to Boost not being as aggressive due to Boost 2.0 kicking in as a result of thermal throttling.

TechSpot already proved that we can run modern Intel CPUs at 99C without any adverse effects in performance:

"So what does this all mean? Beyond the fact that Intel CPUs are impressively stable even while technically overheating it means that you can expect full performance from an Intel CPU as long as you keep it below 100 °C. At the same time, even if the CPU occasionally hits 100 °C you shouldn't see more than a minimal drop in performance until it spends a significant amount of time (more than 20% of the time) above 99 °C."

However, any time the 82-83C is exceeded on NV cards, Boost is neutered which is a key aspect in the performance of NV cards. That's why for SFF PCs, reference blower NV cards that rely on Boost 2.0 for their performance characteristics are not the way to go imo and Linus' review proves this once again.

Careful, you might be round-about told you are lying. I've been running with a 450 watt PSU for two years now, and my old OC'd 780 + OC'd 4770k ran great. When I talked about how little power my current OC'd 980 rig drew at the wall, I was called out.

Not sure how that's relevant since at no point will a 980 air cooled overclocked i5/i7 Z97 system will draw anywhere near 500W of power. The point is you can run a system with 450W of load on a 500W PSU, which means it's not even a question of how much power your 980 rig uses. Whether your rig uses 300W, 350W, 375W, 400W, 450W isn't relevant per say since an excellent 500W PSU would handle any of those loads 24/7. Besides, Silverstone will soon release a 700W Platinum SFX-L PSU. The point is a 500W PSU is sufficient to power a Fury X or 980Ti as long as it's a high quality PSU and it's not paired with 5960X OC to 4.5Ghz.


This is one of those other myths that persists that one should run your PSU at 50% of its load. This might have been true 10 years ago but not when it comes to modern PSUs. The loss in efficiency running a great PSU at 70-100% load is hardly tangible. I am getting off-topic from the thread but I'll finish the idea:

SeaSonic 750W:

20% load = 91.10% efficiency
50% load = 93.51% efficiency
70% load = 92.97% efficiency (hardly a material reduction)
80% load = 92.61% efficiency (still amazing)
90% load = 92.38% efficiency (still Platinum!)
100% load = 91.86% efficiency (excellent)

The old rule that one should run their PSU at 50% of its load is outdated. Modern PSUs are rated at 100% of their power, and can even sustain 110% of their rated power. A 9.0+ PSU is designed to run at full power 24/7 for years at 45-50C. This ability to run at rated load 24/7 for 5-7 years is what separates an amazing PSU from an average PSU. Also, that's why the top PSU brands have premiums because they can give you > 90% efficiency across the entire spectrum of PSU load from 20% all the way to 110%. In fact, that SeaSonic 750W still maintains a 91.57% efficiency even at 110%. :biggrin:

It's getting tiring of people freaking out that their 500-600W PSU isn't good enough for flagship CPU/GPU parts. Sure, if they bought a bottom of the barrel Corsair CX series, then you get what you pay for.

The first thing I'm gonna do when I buy my 650$ gtx980ti is buy a smaller 70$ case to restrict airflow, ah no never mind, that would be stupid.

That's not the point of the review. I can guarantee it there are PC gamers who:

1) Keep buying into the GPU blower myth;
2) Are evaluating what's better to buy a Fury X or a reference 980Ti for their SFF.

This review tackles these aspects dead on.

Fact is, blowers have reached the end of the line a long time ago and finally more and more PC gamers are realizing it. Other than niche cases where one is building Tri/Quad-SLI gaming rig or wants a reference board to water-cool, blowers are inferior in terms of performance, temperatures and noise levels to an after-market cooler and especially an AIO CLC.

980Ti (GM200) is still an amazing/excellent chip but a reference 980Ti is not a great product.
 
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shady28

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Seriously, did you even watch the video and listen to what he was doing?

Look at 3:32, 87C on the Fury X with the GPU not under load? 4:30 61C on the motherboard?

6:05 - Crysis 3 62-66 FPS.

Congrats, you've turned a Fury X and 980 Ti into a GTX 980. Stock 980 Ti normally gets 80+ fps.

Then you've got the screen blanking out from CPU overheating with the solution to reverse the fan. But then you're heading up the GPU with the CPU's heat. Then there's the big long explanation about how a gamer won't use all 4 cores, so it's ok to blow heat into the case. In other words, you get to choose to overheat your GPU or you CPU.

And all the guy did was run Crysis 3? Are you freaking kidding me? He has absolutely no clue if this rig is stable - or maybe he does, and doesn't want to make note of a $1500 fail.
 

wilds

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Are there any comparisons of Fury X against Titan X or 980 ti on water?
 

IllogicalGlory

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Seriously, did you even watch the video and listen to what he was doing?

Look at 3:32, 87C on the Fury X with the GPU not under load? 4:30 61C on the motherboard?
That's because the NVIDIA rig has water cooling on the CPU.
 

n0x1ous

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Sep 9, 2010
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However, any time the 82-83C is exceeded on NV cards, Boost is neutered which is a key aspect in the performance of NV cards. That's why for SFF PCs, reference blower NV cards that rely on Boost 2.0 for their performance characteristics are not the way to go imo and Linus' review proves this once again.

Russian you do realize you can just slide the temp target up to 91C and problem solved right? We know your not a fan of blower cards, but acting like 83C is a hard cap on boost 2.0 is disingenuous
 
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RussianSensation

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Seriously, did you even watch the video and listen to what he was doing?

Look at 3:32, 87C on the Fury X with the GPU not under load? 4:30 61C on the motherboard?
.

Looks like you are the one who needs to do A LOT more research. Intel CPUs do not black screen at 87C. Not to mention one can easily buy a top-of-the line SFF air cooler that fixes his CPU 87C issue:

image002.png


87C on Intel CPU isn't even a problem since CPU speed is unaffected:

TechSpot already proved that we can run modern Intel CPUs at 99C without any adverse effects in performance:

"So what does this all mean? Beyond the fact that Intel CPUs are impressively stable even while technically overheating it means that you can expect full performance from an Intel CPU as long as you keep it below 100 °C. At the same time, even if the CPU occasionally hits 100 °C you shouldn't see more than a minimal drop in performance until it spends a significant amount of time (more than 20% of the time) above 99 °C."

Russian you do realize you can just slide the temp target up to 91C and problem solved right? We know your not a fan of blower cards, but acting like 83C is a hard cap on boost 2.0 is disingenuous

Fair enough but this is still yet another review that shows what happens in 'out of the box' scenario with no adjustments such as custom fan profiles or power targets. Now let's see what happens in a small case with Fury X CF vs. 980Ti reference SLI. Even your 91C target won't save the 980Ti blowers. They are going to lose this battle. Also, say good-bye to reference 980Ti overclocking at that point unless you are gaming with closed headphones or enjoy > 50 dBA noise levels. I don't dislike blowers for the fun of it, but because they perform poorly (outside of niche cases I mentioned), run hot, loud and undermine the best overclocking/Boost at good noise levels --> these are purely technical reasons.

NV needs to bring out AIO CLC for Pascal to get the full potential of that chip out and to cater to the SFF crowd. Blower is holding back GM200 big time and no doubt it'll be a repeat if NV continues with the blower for Pascal. It's just not good enough anymore in the year 2015 for a $650 flagship. If AMD can sell an AIO CLC for $650 then NV can as well. Time for a change ;)

Are there any comparisons of Fury X against Titan X or 980 ti on water?

Not for now but it's obvious what the outcome would be - 980Ti would smoke the Fury X since with water 1500-1550mhz boost is achievable on GM200, while Fury X is voltage locked. For someone going after-market 980Ti or water-cooled 980Ti, 980Ti > Fury X no doubt.
 
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n0x1ous

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Hot and loud isn't good though.

Allowing it to run hotter lessens the noise as the fan doesn't spin as hard. Doesn't change my point that its not a hard cap so the statement i quoted is inaccurate and misleading.

And earlier in his post he is quoting a review that shows its ok to run intel cpus @ 99C but 90C on the gpu is too hot for you guys?

a little goalpost shifting....
 

n0x1ous

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Now let's see what happens in a small case with Fury X CF vs. 980Ti reference SLI. Even your 91C target won't save the 980Ti blowers. They are going to lose this battle.
__________________

can you fit 2 Fury X's in that size case? I havent seen the video so not sure what it was using
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
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Allowing it to run hotter lessens the noise as the fan doesn't spin as hard. Doesn't change my point that its not a hard cap so the statement i quoted is inaccurate and misleading.

Which is better though? Cool and quiet, or hot and loud?
 

n0x1ous

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Which is better though? Cool and quiet, or hot and loud?

what about hot and quiet? Don't get me wrong. I think a single Fury X in that setup is better (if its a non-whiner - I sent mine back and won't buy another for a few months till we can be sure that is fixed) as well, but its not like a 980ti blower is unworkable or something
 
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badb0y

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The first thing I'm gonna do when I buy my 650$ gtx980ti is buy a smaller 70$ case to restrict airflow, ah no never mind, that would be stupid.

What an excellent review.
Who died and made you king of GPU purchases? There are people out there like me who use SFF cases with high end hardware. I have gone through 2 GTX 980 Tis already and I am awaiting for EVGA to get some stock on their Hybrid card so I can buy it and solve my heat/noise problems.
I don't know much about the case he used, but my fractal design node 304 case has absolutely zero air flow problems (despite no exhaust vents along the top of the case which in turn traps heat) and is floor-noise quiet with medium fans. My old open-air GTX 780 never got above 75 C during the summer. My current OC'd 980 doesn't breach 70 C with any noticeable fan noise.

I am keeping my eye on the Dan A4 SFX, and I am extremely confident that if I end up getting one there will be absolutely zero air flow or temperature issues running any kind of video card inside that case, and it'll be the smallest case in the world that can house a full-sized graphics card.

EDIT: Waiting for someone to tell me that my post is heavy on claims and light on proof.
I have a GTX 980 Ti ACX 2.0 SC+ with backplate in my SG10 and I want to keep it around 75 degrees Celsius and it won't stay their even with my custom fan curve.
Russian you do realize you can just slide the temp target up to 91C and problem solved right? We know your not a fan of blower cards, but acting like 83C is a hard cap on boost 2.0 is disingenuous
91 degrees Celsius? No thanks, in SFF cases the more heat is left in the case the worse the temperatures for everything else becomes. For example, I had my blower card running at 80 degrees max temperature limit and the heat was being pushed out the back of the case, which is what I wanted - but to keep the temperature of the GPU at 80 degrees the fan on the GPU had to ramp up a lot which made the case noisy. If I move the temperature target to 91 degrees, the fan on the GPU will slow down but the heat is still being produced at the same level the difference is not all of it is being pushed out of the back.

AIO coolers are a godsend for SFF cases and it was smart of AMD to put it on the reference design. Goddamn EVGA can't even keep the GTX 980 Ti Hybrid in stock :twisted:

Got me feeling like going custom water cooling again. That Parvum S2.0 looking might fine to me.
what about hot and quiet? Don't get me wrong. I think a single Fury X in that setup is better (if its a non-whiner - I sent mine back and won't buy another for a few months till we can be sure that is fixed) as well, but its not like a 980ti blower is unworkable or something

Linus said neither of his card had the noise issue so it looks like some defective units were sent out. I would buy the Fury X but I want that higher performance and I am willing to pay for it.
 
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n0x1ous

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If I move the temperature target to 91 degrees, the fan on the GPU will slow down but the heat is still being produced at the same level the difference is not all of it is being pushed out of the back.

If its a blower how is not being pushed out the back regardless of temperature?
 

badb0y

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If its a blower how is not being pushed out the back regardless of temperature?
More is being retained in the case because the blower is running at a lower RPM. That's how the temperature of the GPU goes up in the first place.
 

n0x1ous

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More is being retained in the case because the blower is running at a lower RPM. That's how the temperature of the GPU goes up in the first place.

I really don't think running a blower at 80 vs 90 is going to make a dramatic impact on CPU temps - especially if the cpu is under an AIO
 

n0x1ous

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The GPU will throttle itself, screw the CPU.

it will just ramp up the fan enough to keep below its temp target - unless you are capping the fan speed at some super low level its not going to throttle
 

badb0y

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it will just ramp up the fan enough to keep below its temp target
Then noise becomes a problem. From my experience the way nVidia's temperature limit works is it targets the temperature limit you set it at. So if you set it at 91 degrees, it's actually going to allow the GPU to get to that temperature before it starts kicking in it's fan speed. In a SFF case that temperature limit gets hit real quick.
 

shady28

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Looks like you are the one who needs to do A LOT more research. Intel CPUs do not black screen at 87C. Not to mention once can easily buy a top-of-the line SFF air cooler that fixes his CPU 87C issue:

You completely failed to LISTEN to what the guy in the video you posted said, didn't you? What did you do, listen to the first 60s where he said he gave the Fury a slight edge ?

He SAID the screen blanked out in the middle of the video due to CPU overheat. Look at time index 8:45-8:55, And all he did was play some Crysis 3. That's hardly a stability test, hardly a load test. He also never tested after reversing the fan.

And then you post a graph of CPU temps under FULL load with the CPU at a max 77C using a stock cooler. Your own chart should give you a hint! This guy hit 87C on the CPU not under a full load!

Why does this guy build TWO systems and only post one benchmark? And the rest is talking about heat?

And for the record, the max rated temp for a Haswell CPU at the IHS is 72C. They will start shutting down at 90-100C. If his PC blanked out from CPU temps it started shutting down, which means it got a lot hotter than his graphs.