Lindows OS Media Computer: Your thoughts

[foxkm]

Well, it looks like the linux world just got a bit grimmer: Lindows Media Computer Screenshots & Info

I am sorry to say but this thing is just sad. Who would pay over 300 dollars for a 900mhz C3 processor machine with 128 mb of ram?
Its sorry to say that the machine is a media machine, yet it lacks video out, has low quality ac97 audio.

The worst part is this:
The DVD/VIDEO player isn't in the OS; You have to reboot the PC and go into some bios thing to watch a movie. This means that
the media functionality isn't even integrated into Lindows!! So, technically, you don't even need an OS (or a hard drive
for that matter) to get the media functionality out of it.

Anyone else have any opinion of this thing?

-foxkm

 

[NokiaDude]

Looks like it'll be pirated within a week.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

garbage.

 

[rbV5]

Hey I paid $3200 for a P100 rig, so........anyway, I don't see how this makes Linux any dimmer, its another choice albiet a poor one.

 

[jonmullen]

The point of running the media stuff out of the BIOS is so you dont have the overhead of the OS. The C3 strugles enought for power as it is this just cuts the bloat.

 

[spyordie007]

I would much rather wait for a decent P4 system on hotdeals thanks...

-Spy

 

[earthman]

I'm not sure what you mean. What does this have to do with Linux? This is just someone's idea of a product. It uses an OS adapted from Linux (Debian) to work, the idea being to provide competion to the Windows environment at a lower cost...like any product, if you don't like it don't buy it. I suspect the BIOS thing has more to do with the licensing of the DVD encryption code for use in an operating system, I don't think any non-Windows/MacOS environment can use this legally at this point...just try playing an encrypted DVD with Linux...you will need to download a bunch of not-quite-legal software packages and compile them yourself, and hope they work...it's not Lindow's fault you can't play DVD's from the OS interface...thats up to the people who control DVD licensing. By running it from the "BIOS" as you put it, it functions the same as an ordinary DVD player, running "dumb", that is, transparent to the user, and avoids the legal issues. It has nothing to do with the CPU, etc...a C3 can easily play DVD video.
I have heard any number of people knocking Lindows since it was announced (I agree the name is stupid). Everybody talks about competing with MS, then when somebody tries to do it using a realistic business model, he gets pasted for it. I hope Robertson is able to stay in business, although its hard to see how he's going to make any money as it is.
Really, this is a fully functional PC for 300 bucks and it doesn't use Windows. Can you do better? If you put Apple's name on this, made it out of clear plastic, and gave it a $1200 price tag, you'd probably see people saying what a great thing it was.Total Hypocrisy.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

If you put Apple's name on this, made it out of clear plastic, and gave it a $1200 price tag, you'd probably see people saying what a great thing it was.Total Hypocrisy.

except for the fact that apple and lindows inc. (or whatever the company is called) are completely different entities. mac os and lindows os are completely different operating systems. that's like saying "ford fans who hate toyotas are total hypocrites". lindows have also shown that they are not intending on practicing respectable business practices. you "subscribe" to download their packages of free software, while they promote the software like it's something exclusive. it's about as lame as you get.

 

[earthman]

That makes even less sense. They have to give their stuff away for free to be respectable? They put alot of effort into refining their system so it would run reliably on the hardware they are selling it on, be easy to use, and run some Windows apps with a fair amount of stability. How would they exist as a business if they didn't charge money? Even companies like RedHat and SuSE are waking up to the fact that you need paying customers to stay in business, RedHat charges for subscriptions to update your system, in case you hadn't noticed, and SuSE doesn't provide free ISO's of their latest distro, you have to buy it. And what does Apple give you for free? Apple claims to be a better alternative to Windows, but they rely on Microsoft for applications to enhance the value of their product! How is that for hipocrsy? OSX is just FreeBSD so how dare they charge me for what is supposed to be free software! Get real. If Michael Robertson's Lindow OS manages to even annoy MS for a few months, it will be a major achievment in my book. None of the Linux vendors will even admit they compete with anybody, they are still trying to live in a fairytale world of free software for everybody to hack with as they please. Many of them tottered through this last year on the verge of bankruptcy, I hope it taught them a lesson.

 

[MainFramed]

Originally posted by: NokiaDude
Looks like it'll be pirated within a week.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: earthman
That makes even less sense. They have to give their stuff away for free to be respectable?

nope.

They put alot of effort into refining their system so it would run reliably on the hardware they are selling it on,

i could name more than a couple OS' that run extremely reliably on many (and in some cases, MANY ) architectures, and are free.

be easy to use,

redhat, suse, mandrake, knoppix

and run some Windows apps with a fair amount of stability.

that i will give you. no other distros set up wine for you.

How would they exist as a business if they didn't charge money?

who gives a crap about a business?

Even companies like RedHat and SuSE are waking up to the fact that you need paying customers to stay in business,

agreed (see mandrake :Q)

RedHat charges for subscriptions to update your system, in case you hadn't noticed, and SuSE doesn't provide free ISO's of their latest distro, you have to buy it.

however, they seem to go about it with more class. lindows has their lame gimmicky "click n run" software, which is free and demo software, made to appear as though it is of some great value at lindows' prices. this same software works just as well on redhat, mandrake, debian, et al, and is just as easy to install.

And what does Apple give you for free?

i dont know, why are you even asking me?

Apple claims to be a better alternative to Windows,

no claims, pure truth

but they rely on Microsoft for applications to enhance the value of their product!

yeah, *enhance*. even with MS office, the lion's share of apple systems are used for the same ol' stuff, final cut pro, photoshop, school stuff, etc.

How is that for hipocrsy?

you tell me.

OSX is just FreeBSD so how dare they charge me for what is supposed to be free software!

you were sounding fairly intelligent up to this point.

Get real. If Michael Robertson's Lindow OS manages to even annoy MS for a few months, it will be a major achievment in my book.

mine as well! i may dislike lindows, that doesnt mean i like MS.

None of the Linux vendors will even admit they compete with anybody

why compete? if they can provide a worthwhile service, and remain profitable enough to pay their people, why be so greedy? why is it that companies never want to settle for anything less than the top? people need to lay off the greed, that's how MS got where it is.

they are still trying to live in a fairytale world of free software for everybody to hack with as they please.

and if they can do it and remain afloat, more power to them. i don't see why everything has to be about pushing your software on everyone else, and trying to take marketshare and take this and take that. i'd love to work for a company who focused on quality and user satisfaction, rather than profits and budgets.

Many of them tottered through this last year on the verge of bankruptcy, I hope it taught them a lesson.

eh, me too. hopefully they can look at their mistakes and try not to repeat them.

 

[earthman]

I don't consider an OS (Mac) that runs on one (outdated) architecture and has a whopping 3.5 percent market share to be a "better" alternative to Windows. The price and paucity of software alone defeats it on that basis. Lindows may be alot of hype, but Apple are the kings of hype. I can't think of a more arrogant company, and undeservedly so. Microsoft is arrogant too, but at least Windows users don't take their crap seriously. I think Mac mice have one button because most Mac users are too technically challenged to use more than that.

 

[vegetation]

I'm sure it's way less than 3.5% worldwide, and if you eliminate computers in educational facilities then it would be even less so.

Originally posted by: earthman
I don't consider an OS (Mac) that runs on one (outdated) architecture and has a whopping 3.5 percent market share to be a "better" alternative to Windows. The price and paucity of software alone defeats it on that basis. Lindows may be alot of hype, but Apple are the kings of hype. I can't think of a more arrogant company, and undeservedly so. Microsoft is arrogant too, but at least Windows users don't take their crap seriously. I think Mac mice have one button because most Mac users are too technically challenged to use more than that.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

if all youre concerned about is maintaining the status quo, then i guess there's no point in trying to explain any other view, it's less popular, so why even bother?

you praise lindows' anti-ms nature, yet you disrespect macs because they have a smaller userbase.

price-wise, yes, macs are a bad choice, but that does not change the fact that osx is a very nice os. of course thats subjective, if you dig xp, fine, whatever. personally i don't like any of the commercial os's that much, i just dig mac os since it lets you do all of the nifty multimedia desktop-style bs without the horrid XPerience that is windows. no matter what, i'll take any bsd or a linux distro or two before osx or windows.

 

[earthman]

I keep hearing how the Mac user experience is so wonderful, but their market share has shrunk by leaps and bounds, down from double digits only a few years ago, while the opposite seems to be true for Microsoft. I wonder why that is.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: earthman
I keep hearing how the Mac user experience is so wonderful, but their market share has shrunk by leaps and bounds, down from double digits only a few years ago, while the opposite seems to be true for Microsoft. I wonder why that is.

yes, because in a capitalist economy, sales are in direct correlation to quality of product

 

[SaigonK]

We should see more of these types of systems springing up each day, the whole "computer at the center of the home" thoery is taking some form now...

 

[Technonut]

I have messed around with RedHat and Mandrake some, but don't really keep up with it. If I'm not mistaken, Lindows is basically Lycoris (AKA Redmond Linux) right? If so, Lycoris is free to DL.....

 

[earthman]

Lindows is not Lycoris, its Debian-based. For those who seem to think its wrong to charge for it, you can read what Robertson himself has to say:

Why does it cost money to buy LindowsOS or belong to the Click-N-Run Warehouse?  Isn't Linux suppose to be "free?"


Presently, Lindows.com has about 50 full-time employees that need to provide a living for themselves and their families.  If we didn't charge for our products and services, all of these people would have to find full-time work elsewhere and Lindows.com and LindowsOS wouldn't exist, at least not to the extent it does today.  A lot of great work has been done with the open source movement, but progress can take a long time because most of the work is being done on a part-time basis by those involved.  Those who volunteer their efforts usually have to have other full-time jobs to earn a living.
Commercial enterprises, such as Lindows.com, RedHat, Sun, Ximian,  Transgamming, etc., can put full-time energy into advancing parts of the open source projects.  For example, in addition to making the source code available to those we distribute products too, all modifications that our full-time employees make to open source projects get submitted back to these projects to be enjoyed and used by all.  
There are also 3rd-party pieces in LindowsOS which are not open source, which we have to pay to license and use in LindowsOS.  This is also true of several of the programs in the Click-N-Run Warehouse (StarOffice, Bitstream Deluxe Fonts, Photogenics, TuxRacer Deluxe, Hancom Sheet 2.0, etc.)  Since access to all these products is included with your purchase of LindowsOS from us, we need to cover these costs as well.
Also, with LindowsOS you're purchasing much more than software.  You're also purchasing services, such as Click-N-Run.  Maintaining our servers, bandwidth, etc. all cost a great deal.  Think of it like changing the oil in your car, getting your hair cut, dinning out...you can choose to do all of these for free yourself, or you can pay a reasonable price for these services.
At  Lindows.com we believe in "fair" pricing and work hard to deliver real value for any fees we may charge.
As for Linux being GPL and therefore "free," this concept is often misunderstood.  I'd suggest clicking here for a good resource to learn more about the GPL.  You'll see it's quite acceptable to charge for GPL products and services, and that commercial companies actually HELP bolster up and advance many open source initiatives through their full-time work on these projects.

Why would someone pay for Click-N-Run, doesn't it only offer software available for free elsewhere?


No, there are several commercial applications in the Click-N-Run Warehouse which are not available for free elsewhere.  For example, StarOffice is a $75 retail product, but is available at no additional charge to Click-N-Run members.  The commercial version of Photogenics, Tux Racer and Hancom Sheet 2.0 are other examples of commercial products available in the Click-N-Run Warehouse.
However, commercial products are only part of the value of Click-N-Run...
LindowsOS is targeted to the value-conscious, less-technical user.  It's true that much of the software in the Click-N-Run Warehouse is available "free" (assuming your time has no value) to those who are technically sophisticated enough to know how to find and install it.  Much of the world, however, wouldn't have the foggiest idea of how to do that.  The Click-N-Run service is not only for the software, but also for the delivery system.  Being able to install programs such as StarOffice, GIMP, GNUCash, Evolution, Mozilla, Doom, and OpenOffice with one click of the mouse is a service many find worth paying for (myself included!)
Anyone can change the oil in their car for "free," but the vast majority of people choose to pay someone to do this for them. For many, who's time is valuable and their technical expertise is minimal, they are thrilled to have a service such as Click-N-Run, just like many are glad Jiffy Lube is there to change the oil in their car for them.
Also, Click-N-Run does much more than simply install these programs, it also adds them to the correct area of the Launch menu, adjust file associations, puts the icons on the desktop or auto run directory if desired, and so on.  
Additionally, using Click-N-Run, LindowsOS users have continual, instant access to the latest OS updates as well as updates to the application software running on their computer.  Click-N-Run manages the updating process for all your computer's software, making sure you're always running the latest and greatest.
The Click-N-Run Warehouse also provides a nice catalog of all the products with screen shots, reviews, descriptions, help, tips, search capabilities, ratings, charts, etc. to make finding just the right software so much easier.
My.Lindows.com is a personal locker for all the software someone ever installs using Click-N-Run.  Users can use Click-N-Run to install any product from their My.Lindows.com account, even if they are no longer a member of the CNR Warehouse.
Aisles allow Click-N-Run users to create their own web pages and groupings of their favorite Click-N-Run programs so that they all can be installed with just one click of their mouse.  Aisles can even be password protected and kept private if desired.
Click-N-Run Express(TM) allows users to install products in seconds, even over slower Internet connections.
And one last, very nice feature, is that soon, anyone will be able to publish software to the Lindows.com Click-N-Run Warehouse, so that individuals and businesses can make it easy to install all their software with just one click.
Linux is only "free" if your time has no value.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: earthman
Lindows is not Lycoris, its Debian-based. For those who seem to think its wrong to charge for it, you can read what Robertson himself has to say:

Why does it cost money to buy LindowsOS or belong to the Click-N-Run Warehouse? Isn't Linux suppose to be "free?"


Presently, Lindows.com has about 50 full-time employees that need to provide a living for themselves and their families. If we didn't charge for our products and services, all of these people would have to find full-time work elsewhere and Lindows.com and LindowsOS wouldn't exist, at least not to the extent it does today. A lot of great work has been done with the open source movement, but progress can take a long time because most of the work is being done on a part-time basis by those involved. Those who volunteer their efforts usually have to have other full-time jobs to earn a living.
Commercial enterprises, such as Lindows.com, RedHat, Sun, Ximian, Transgamming, etc., can put full-time energy into advancing parts of the open source projects. For example, in addition to making the source code available to those we distribute products too, all modifications that our full-time employees make to open source projects get submitted back to these projects to be enjoyed and used by all.
There are also 3rd-party pieces in LindowsOS which are not open source, which we have to pay to license and use in LindowsOS. This is also true of several of the programs in the Click-N-Run Warehouse (StarOffice, Bitstream Deluxe Fonts, Photogenics, TuxRacer Deluxe, Hancom Sheet 2.0, etc.) Since access to all these products is included with your purchase of LindowsOS from us, we need to cover these costs as well.
Also, with LindowsOS you're purchasing much more than software. You're also purchasing services, such as Click-N-Run. Maintaining our servers, bandwidth, etc. all cost a great deal. Think of it like changing the oil in your car, getting your hair cut, dinning out...you can choose to do all of these for free yourself, or you can pay a reasonable price for these services.
At Lindows.com we believe in "fair" pricing and work hard to deliver real value for any fees we may charge.
As for Linux being GPL and therefore "free," this concept is often misunderstood. I'd suggest clicking here for a good resource to learn more about the GPL. You'll see it's quite acceptable to charge for GPL products and services, and that commercial companies actually HELP bolster up and advance many open source initiatives through their full-time work on these projects.

Why would someone pay for Click-N-Run, doesn't it only offer software available for free elsewhere?


No, there are several commercial applications in the Click-N-Run Warehouse which are not available for free elsewhere. For example, StarOffice is a $75 retail product, but is available at no additional charge to Click-N-Run members. The commercial version of Photogenics, Tux Racer and Hancom Sheet 2.0 are other examples of commercial products available in the Click-N-Run Warehouse.
However, commercial products are only part of the value of Click-N-Run...
LindowsOS is targeted to the value-conscious, less-technical user. It's true that much of the software in the Click-N-Run Warehouse is available "free" (assuming your time has no value) to those who are technically sophisticated enough to know how to find and install it. Much of the world, however, wouldn't have the foggiest idea of how to do that. The Click-N-Run service is not only for the software, but also for the delivery system. Being able to install programs such as StarOffice, GIMP, GNUCash, Evolution, Mozilla, Doom, and OpenOffice with one click of the mouse is a service many find worth paying for (myself included!)
Anyone can change the oil in their car for "free," but the vast majority of people choose to pay someone to do this for them. For many, who's time is valuable and their technical expertise is minimal, they are thrilled to have a service such as Click-N-Run, just like many are glad Jiffy Lube is there to change the oil in their car for them.
Also, Click-N-Run does much more than simply install these programs, it also adds them to the correct area of the Launch menu, adjust file associations, puts the icons on the desktop or auto run directory if desired, and so on.
Additionally, using Click-N-Run, LindowsOS users have continual, instant access to the latest OS updates as well as updates to the application software running on their computer. Click-N-Run manages the updating process for all your computer's software, making sure you're always running the latest and greatest.
The Click-N-Run Warehouse also provides a nice catalog of all the products with screen shots, reviews, descriptions, help, tips, search capabilities, ratings, charts, etc. to make finding just the right software so much easier.
My.Lindows.com is a personal locker for all the software someone ever installs using Click-N-Run. Users can use Click-N-Run to install any product from their My.Lindows.com account, even if they are no longer a member of the CNR Warehouse.
Aisles allow Click-N-Run users to create their own web pages and groupings of their favorite Click-N-Run programs so that they all can be installed with just one click of their mouse. Aisles can even be password protected and kept private if desired.
Click-N-Run Express(TM) allows users to install products in seconds, even over slower Internet connections.
And one last, very nice feature, is that soon, anyone will be able to publish software to the Lindows.com Click-N-Run Warehouse, so that individuals and businesses can make it easy to install all their software with just one click.
Linux is only "free" if your time has no value.

kudos to lindows, i just don't know that they will be able to claim alot of these things for long. bitstream recently donated some nice fonts to the open source community under a bsd-style license. open office is better than star office and is completely free. debian could easily be made to have a convenient, easy to use software installation mechanism, it's just a matter of someone doing it. then again, debian isnt well known for softening its edges for newbies, perhaps redhat could integrate apt4rpm (WHY don't they already?), and make some nice little software installer gui gadget.

lindows does provide something unique, but it seems that they're just doing the same thing that everyone else is heading towards. what will they do when other vendors offer the same thing for free?

 

[majewski9]

Obviousily everyone here knows that an 800mhz C3 isnt very powerful in a lot of benchmarks. It is strong in a lot of office apps though which is all a person who buys one of these is going to use it for. Without a quote on quote GUI OS even the pitiful C3 should be able to handle DVD decoding. Armed with Linux a C3 should seem pretty fast! Heck you probaly wouldn't notice that you were using a C3. they should at least start using the newer C3 ghz chips which are better not by much though. They should also stop using the VIA int video and go with at the very least SIS or lower end Radeon cards. Im interested in Lindows and VIA C3! I think that we need companies to start challenging the status quo Windows PC. We sure as heck know that Apple isnt going to ever get its act together.

 

[Sunner]

Well, Lindows isn't exactly my kind of Linux distro, but I still don't see why everyone and their dog is bashing them.

If Robertson thinks he can make it work well enough to catch on and make Lindows(the company) prosper, good for him, let him try, and if he succeeds, good for him, maybe I'll get a Lindows preinstalled computer for my grandma one day.

If he doesn't succeed(which is what I personally think will happen), too bad, he tried, a bunch of investors lost a bunch of money, but in the end, nothing changes much.

As long as Lindows doesn't violate the various licenses(GPL, BSD) etc in the process, I can't see any problem with what they're doing, after all, Open SOurce is all about freedom, no?
Even if the people who are using it use it in ways you don't like.

 

[earthman]

Lindows has no investors, its all his own money.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: earthman
Lindows has no investors, its all his own money.

Wow, that's actually pretty cool, he's taking quite the bet.