Lifts

[sjwaste]

My Supra needs a lot of work. I'm thinking I'm going to just do it all myself over the next few years. I don't have a good winter project yet, and living in Maine and all, I need one.

So I'm thinking, I have a good size garage. It's a two car, but I have plenty of space beyond the length of a car, a loft above, and most importantly, a very high ceiling - probably about 14 feet, possibly more, but I never measured. I just know I need a 12 foot stepladder to reach up and unplug the garage door opener, because I just replaced it.

Does anyone here have a lift in the garage, or have done any research into reasonable options (cost, install)? I really don't even know where to start, and I can find lots of options on google, but no real authority on what I should get for casual use.

 

[AMCRambler]

2 post lifts are the inexpensive version I think. I think Jch13 just posted that he has one he can tell you. From what I've heard getting a used one is the way to go.

 

[sjwaste]

2 post lifts are the inexpensive version I think. I think Jch13 just posted that he has one he can tell you. From what I've heard getting a used one is the way to go.

Is installing a lift generally something people tackle by themselves? For some reason I imagined I'd need someone to come do it just to make sure I'm not going to drop a 4000 lb car on myself.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I probably have the ceiling height to keep the project car up high and still use that garage bay to park my daily driver. Man, that'd be sweet.

 

[jlee]

How thick is your concrete?

 

[phucheneh]

Is installing a lift generally something people tackle by themselves? For some reason I imagined I'd need someone to come do it just to make sure I'm not going to drop a 4000 lb car on myself.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I probably have the ceiling height to keep the project car up high and still use that garage bay to park my daily driver. Man, that'd be sweet.

No. You need a concrete guy to sink large studs in the garage floor. I've always seen it done by cutting out the applicable portion of floor with a concrete saw (a.k.a. loudest tool known to man). Past that, if you can move it in, place it on the studs, and tighten the nuts on top to spec, sure.

A two post, above ground lift would be what you want. They're at least a couple grand for a good one. I've seen cheaper ones that might be okay for a home garage, but...eh...not something I'd cheap out on.

Also you may need 220v power.

 

[Howard]

No. You need a concrete guy to sink large studs in the garage floor

Why? Just select a suitable anchor, find the appropriate concrete bit, and borrow a rotary hammer. It's really easy to drill these.

You do have to make sure your concrete is thick enough to support the anchor that is strong enough for the application.

EDIT: You can get anchors that are internally threaded so you can drop a bolt in. You don't even have to necessarily lift the posts over.

 

[sjwaste]

How thick is your concrete?

Damn good question. I have a center floor drain so I can pop out the grating and measure, I think.

 

[phucheneh]

Why? Just select a suitable anchor, find the appropriate concrete bit, and borrow a rotary hammer. It's really easy to drill these.

You do have to make sure your concrete is thick enough to support the anchor that is strong enough for the application.

EDIT: You can get anchors that are internally threaded so you can drop a bolt in. You don't even have to necessarily lift the posts over.

I mean...you CAN do this...but is it approved by the lift manufacturer?

I've never seen a lift in a shop installed after-the-fact (not during building construction) without cutting up the floor and pouring new concrete around the anchors.

 

[Howard]

I mean...you CAN do this...but is it approved by the lift manufacturer?

I've never seen a lift in a shop installed after-the-fact (not during building construction) without cutting up the floor and pouring new concrete around the anchors.

Well, I don't know. I'm sure he's smart enough to check the manual of prospective lift(s).

IME anchors work just fine after the fact. That's what they're meant for.

 

[Raizinman]

I speak from experience, not guessing. I have a 10,000 lb lift in my home garage. I purchased it from Worth out of Texas about 10 years ago and installed it in my garage, in my new house.

Because I built the house and knew I was going to install a lift, I had the contractor bury some concrete piers (large barrels) under the place where I knew I would be installing the lift posts. It was either that or pour a much thicker and stronger concrete floor. I’ve also seen others who used a large metal footing plate to disperse the weight over a larger area.

I wanted a two post lift with the connecting portion at the top (instead of the bottom) so that I can hide this connector beam in the attic of my garage hidden away. The lift cost about $2400. It was shipped motor freight free.

The wife and I installed in about 8 hours. I rented a heavy duty concrete drill and bit at Home Depot to drill the holes into the concrete. I checked with a company who installs lifts and they would have charged me $500. I decided to do-it-myself. I had to remove the sheet rock above the lift area to connect the posts. Don’t forget the electrical connector. We also had our house built with 400 amp service. The lift is hooked to a 220v, 50 amp breaker. Some lifts require smaller amperage. I decided to go with a 3 hp electric/hydraulic motor/pump. Keep in mind if you have a 200 amp service, that the lift will take a lot of electricity, but it is only momentary. Raising the car might take 45 seconds of motor power. The motor does not come on lowering the car.

I have since sheet rocked the hole in my garage ceiling and now all you see is two lift pillars in my garage (the connecting beam holding them together is totally hidden). Remember to retighten the lift bolts every year and purchase along with the lift the lift arm extensions for higher cars and pickup trucks. You will need them. In making this investment to my home, I chose neither the cheapest or most expensive lift. I picked one after careful research one that was very heavy duty and had a upper beam that was virtually maintenance free, knowing that I was going to hide it in my attic for years. There are all types of lifts, just choose one that suites your needs.

Overall, I love my lift. You will quickly make new friends once the word gets out. I have designed attachments for putting my riding mower on the lift and also lifting my motorcycle. I would say that the lift paid for itself easily from its first 6 months, not to mention the happiness from my back. I have since happily thrown away my creeper.

I have never had a vehicle fall off my lift because I take precautions. I don’t let ANYONE else put a car on the lift without me first checking it. Also, there are booklets that you can purchase on how to lift virtually every type of car. Many cars can be damaged easily by lifting them in the wrong area.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

 

[JulesMaximus]

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

Pics?

 

[phucheneh]

Remember that if you hide the connecting beam in the ceiling, you're assumably disabling the safety feature that keeps you from shoving the car into the roof. Most if not all lifts come with a safety bar across the top that stops the lift motor once the top of the car touches it.

 

[SyndromeOCZ]

Damn good question. I have a center floor drain so I can pop out the grating and measure, I think.

You wont be able to see the concrete, drains are generally a pipe that concrete is poured around. And if you could see the concrete the thickness around them can very easily be different than the thickness of the slab.

I do concrete for a profession, and around here most typical garage floors are only 4 inches thick. If your pouring a mechanic shop floor then they jump them up to a 6 inch slab.

 

[Zivic]

a twin post is cool, but each lift has its benefits. I think most that get lifts for their home garage get 4 post drive on style. they are easy to use, and don't require fastening to the floor. You give up easy wheel/suspension work, but gain a lot of easy of use.

I have a farm shop and we have both a 4 post and rising table style lift. with those two, I get kind of the best of both worlds with the flexibility of being able to move the lifts around the shop. I would still love a twin post, and have plans to get one, but the work involved in properly setting one up is a sticking point (we have infloor heat). If I make any money next year I am building a new building just for me and my cars. I will set up a twin post then.

If I had an existing structure I would probably just get a 4 post

 

[jlee]

a twin post is cool, but each lift has its benefits. I think most that get lifts for their home garage get 4 post drive on style. they are easy to use, and don't require fastening to the floor. You give up easy wheel/suspension work, but gain a lot of easy of use.

I have a farm shop and we have both a 4 post and rising table style lift. with those two, I get kind of the best of both worlds with the flexibility of being able to move the lifts around the shop. I would still love a twin post, and have plans to get one, but the work involved in properly setting one up is a sticking point (we have infloor heat). If I make any money next year I am building a new building just for me and my cars. I will set up a twin post then.

If I had an existing structure I would probably just get a 4 post

I would never get a drive-on lift for my only lift. It's useless for most of the stuff I would really want a lift for.

You wont be able to see the concrete, drains are generally a pipe that concrete is poured around. And if you could see the concrete the thickness around them can very easily be different than the thickness of the slab.

I do concrete for a profession, and around here most typical garage floors are only 4 inches thick. If your pouring a mechanic shop floor then they jump them up to a 6 inch slab.

Most of the small-ish lifts I've seen require 4 inch concrete. I'd probably want 6 where the lift goes just for peace of mine, but I like overkill.

 

[Zivic]

I would never get a drive-on lift for my only lift. It's useless for most of the stuff I would really want a lift for.



Most of the small-ish lifts I've seen require 4 inch concrete. I'd probably want 6 where the lift goes just for peace of mine, but I like overkill.

given certain situations, a 4 post might be the best bet. It isn't ideal, but considering cutting out your floor to install... and I have heard of people's home owners dropping them if/when they find out they have a twin post lift.

 

[jlee]

given certain situations, a 4 post might be the best bet. It isn't ideal, but considering cutting out your floor to install... and I have heard of people's home owners dropping them if/when they find out they have a twin post lift.

Most projects involve pulling the wheels off, though - brakes, tire rotation, suspension, axles...I guess with some cars you could pull the motor with the wheels on, but with my MR2s I drop the whole engine/trans, so I pull axles. The only thing in recent memory I could've used a drive-on lift for is when I did the Forester's oil pickup/pan. I rented a real lift/bay for that and it made life suck much less. Though I did brakes too, so in that case I could've just put it on a lift and left it there for everything.

 

[SyndromeOCZ]

Cutting a hole in the concrete and building some peirs inside your slab actually isn't as hard as you might think. You could get the few tools you need from a rental place(quickie saw, rotary hammer, shovel, wheel barrow) and pour them in yourself. Thats how I'd do it.

 

[Gillbot]

2 post lifts are the inexpensive version I think. I think Jch13 just posted that he has one he can tell you. From what I've heard getting a used one is the way to go.

Until you factor in floor changes. Most floors aren't thick or strong enough.

How thick is your concrete?

Not only thickness, but it has to be the proper strength as well.
http://www.aescosc.com/challenger/2-Post_.pdf

Most recommend ~3500psi at least, some higher.

 

[sjwaste]

After doing some research based on the helpful posts in this thread, I think I'd want to go 2 post since a lot of the work I'd do would be with the wheels off. My car has an aging suspension, and that's just the start of it.

I'm pretty sure I only have 4" of concrete, so I'd probably cut holes and sink some piers just to be safe. For the poster that said a contractor wanted $500 to do the install, I think I'd go for that. For something that's going to hold a car over my head, I want to be sure.

Oddly enough, electrical is probably my biggest issue. My main panel is only 100A. Odd for a newer house (1997), but they don't build with A/C here, so 100A is generally plenty. I'd probably have to upgrade service to do it. However, we're considering central air and I wanted to expand the electrical in the garage, so an upgrade may have been inevitable.

We'll see, but it's probably not in the budget for this winter since we probably have central air or a 3 season room higher on the list.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Mutilator]

Since I was looking at these a few weeks back I figured I'd throw this in here: http://www.maxjaxusa.com/

 

[phucheneh]

The only reason you would want to go four post is so you can get out of the car easier. And that's kind of a silly reason.

Otherwise, the extra posts are just adding lifting capacity that you don't need.

Take note of the way the arms are configured on the lifts when you look at them. Not all of them have to have the car centered. If, say, you plan on parking there every day, I would look for one with the unequal length arms so you can place the posts torward the front of the garage- that way you don't risk hitting it with your door every day (but put some foam on it just in case you do).

 

[AMCRambler]

Since I was looking at these a few weeks back I figured I'd throw this in here: http://www.maxjaxusa.com/

Ooooo. Now that is interesting. I've got 8 foot ceilings in my garage so I didn't think I'd be able to get a lift. Gotta read more about these. Do they have to be bolted into the concrete like a regular lift and then unbolted when you're done?

Edit:
Derp. It sais it right on the linked page.

"Flush-mount anchors are installed in your concrete floor and remain there permanently. The columns are bolted to the floor using 5/8" anchor bolts that thread into the flush-mount anchors."

Man, this would be sooo nice for working on my Rambler. Jack stands plus creeper sucks. Especially when I can't squeeze under certain places on the creeper and I gott inch worm in and out.

 

[JCH13]

2 post lifts are the inexpensive version I think. I think Jch13 just posted that he has one he can tell you. From what I've heard getting a used one is the way to go.

Well, I've worked on setting up one in my friend's garage. Used ones can be hand for not a lot of money, but that's really up to your budget. Getting this less-expensive used into good condition has taken a lot of time and cost a few extra bucks in parts.

What I've heard about two-post lifts is that you have to be pretty careful about how you load a car onto it, if the car is too far forward or backward on the lift it can tip over on you. Imagine putting a car up on a two-post lift and pulling the engine and transmission out. The center of gravity of the car has now shifted much further back in the car (or, much further forward, if it's a mid-engine car) and it might tip off the lift, or tip the whole lift over.

My friend's is all-electric screw drive which is a big PITA. the chain drive and special limit switches suck and add that many more pieces that need maintenance and replacement. It's also a two-post that connects across the floor, which is again a PITA to get a low-slung sports car, like my Miata, over.

If I were to get one I would get an heavy-duty rated (probably 6,000-10,000lbs) two-post with a top-connecting rail or no connecting rail. I'd also make sure the arms can get REALLY low to floor, like 2in, to pick up a sports car. It would be electric-over-hydraulic than runs on 220V. A lot of used ones comes from shops that had 3-phase, which can be worked around, but you don't want do deal with that mess. I would also want to get some stabilizer jacks to help prevent vehicle tipping.

 

[phucheneh]

Well, I've worked on setting up one in my friend's garage. Used ones can be hand for not a lot of money, but that's really up to your budget. Getting this less-expensive used into good condition has taken a lot of time and cost a few extra bucks in parts.

What I've heard about two-post lifts is that you have to be pretty careful about how you load a car onto it, if the car is too far forward or backward on the lift it can tip over on you. Imagine putting a car up on a two-post lift and pulling the engine and transmission out. The center of gravity of the car has now shifted much further back in the car (or, much further forward, if it's a mid-engine car) and it might tip off the lift, or tip the whole lift over.

My friend's is all-electric screw drive which is a big PITA. the chain drive and special limit switches suck and add that many more pieces that need maintenance and replacement. It's also a two-post that connects across the floor, which is again a PITA to get a low-slung sports car, like my Miata, over.

If I were to get one I would get an heavy-duty rated (probably 6,000-10,000lbs) two-post with a top-connecting rail or no connecting rail. I'd also make sure the arms can get REALLY low to floor, like 2in, to pick up a sports car. It would be electric-over-hydraulic than runs on 220V. A lot of used ones comes from shops that had 3-phase, which can be worked around, but you don't want do deal with that mess. I would also want to get some stabilizer jacks to help prevent vehicle tipping.

All lifts need to be treated as a device that can possibly murder you if you're not careful. I don't think two posts risk dropping reasonably-sized cars any more than a four post.

As I said above, some two posts are specifically designed with the arms canted toward the rear, with the car able to sit a fair amount off center of the posts. As long as the floor mountings are done right, it's safe. The whole lift should certainly never tip over; but I have seem one end of a car start to lift (scary).

http://www.rotarylift.com/uploadedF...st_Light_Product_Info/PAS_twopost_2012.05.pdf

Rotary lifts might be out of his price range, but they're a solid product. Just wanted to link that because they show asymmetrical designs.

The much more common problem (vs weight centering) is just poor lift point placement in general. For the majority of modern unibodies that can be lifted by the pinch welds, this isn't a big thing...although I always try and lift on a boxed 'frame' portion of the car instead. Trucks are where it gets iffy, usually.

I've dropped one car when I first started working on them. An F150. For those familiar with lifting those, you probably know why. The frame rail is only flat torwards the front, then angles up very quickly, meaning you REALLY need to be able to reach the leaf spring shackle with the rear pads. I had them just barely on where the frame starter to curve upwards, and it fell as I brought it up on an old center post. Luckily, it didn't have far to go, and I think it was the trans crossmember that hit, saving me from a cracked transmission casing or worse. Hoorah, built Ford Tough. Or something.

And again, I would not go without a top connecting rail, as it includes the safety bar that cuts off the lift should you accidentally try and shove the car through the ceiling.