Lifetime ATF Fluid?

[Zodiark1593]

I'd been taking a look at my service records for my 98 Volvo V70, and my grandfather is normally good at maintenance, however, I haven't come across anything regarding the ATF fluid. The manual claims it's a synthetic fluid that can last the life of the tranny. It's currently at 193,000 miles, and as far as I know, it's the factory fill.

At the moment, there are no issues with it as far as I can tell, and it's lasted this long already, so I'm wondering if a "leave well enough alone" applies here. Just something that's on the back of my mind since my last car died of tranny failure (design flaw, not lack of maintenance).

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30055

Most car minded people would never have let it go that long.

 

[kitatech]

Don't mistaken lifetime for long-life.

 

[Jimzz]

There is not such thing as lifetime fluid unless you consider the short life a trans will usually have from not changing the fluid.

I would have the fluid looked at. If its brown/dirty keep driving as its probably to late to do anything else. If there is no major sign of distress then I would do a drain and fill.

 

[Zodiark1593]

http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30055

Most car minded people would never have let it go that long.

Kind of odd as my grandfather used to work on cars a lot, and he definitely had money. Perhaps the fluid had been changed at least once. The earliest the records go is 115K (I owned it since 159K) though, so there's that uncertainty in the back of my mind. The fluid itself is looking dark, but not brown, for those curious. At any rate, I'll probably do a drain and fill when I go to do my timing belt (due at 210K).

Now I'm curious though on the supposed "lifetime fluid" that is common in luxury brands. :hmm:

 

[LTC8K6]

Yeah, I wouldn't trust lifetime ATF. I would be doing the drain and refill at normal ATF intervals like 60K miles.

 

[evident]

i replaced my lexus "lifetime" ATF around 60k miles. shifts noticably better, and i'll probably do it again if i have to take it to the toyota/lexus dealer

 

[Jimzz]

Kind of odd as my grandfather used to work on cars a lot, and he definitely had money. Perhaps the fluid had been changed at least once. The earliest the records go is 115K (I owned it since 159K) though, so there's that uncertainty in the back of my mind. The fluid itself is looking dark, but not brown, for those curious. At any rate, I'll probably do a drain and fill when I go to do my timing belt (due at 210K).

Now I'm curious though on the supposed "lifetime fluid" that is common in luxury brands. :hmm:

Most have dropped the "lifetime" fluid as trans started having issues and/or blowing up early. Mercedes went from lifetime to I think 48k or something, a lot of valve body problems. GM tried the "sealed" trans on the early Cobalt's and had some issues. etc... So many tried it and failed badly.
A drain/fill every 30k-60k is cheap insurance and keeps trans living a good life. I do mine every 30k but some seem to not burn their fluid as badly so they could go as high as 60k.

 

[bryanl]

Drain and refill the fluid but do not get the transmission flushed, no matter how much better flushing is claimed to be.

 

[Lean L]

Drain and refill the fluid but do not get the transmission flushed, no matter how much better flushing is claimed to be.

Depends on how many miles are on the transmission and what method of flush imo. There's a way to flush the transmission relatively safely by running the engine instead of using the machine they have in shops.

The safest way to get 90% clean fluid without risking anything is to do 3x drain and fills with a tank of gas in between each.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Drain and refill the fluid but do not get the transmission flushed, no matter how much better flushing is claimed to be.

Didn't exactly plan on a flush, based on the research I've done, however, opinion seems to be split on whether I should even touch the tranny fluid that may be original (193K on the tranny), or just prep my bank account for a future rebuild/manual swap, hence why I posted here.

Things seem to be working fine though, no slipping, and quick shifts, just slightly harsh shifting at low speed, smooth otherwise, and my driving is 90% highway. So I'm leaning toward gradually getting some new fluid in there.

 

[C1]

Go to any auto book and look at how an auto tranny works. You will see that it is a friction device (ie, composed of bands and clutches). As these wear, the material is carried away by the transmission fluid and accumulated via the transmission's oil filter.

If too much band wear material accumulates in the valve body, then those valves can stick/bind and the effect typically is noticeable rough or delayed shifting.

It behooves one to change out the transmission oil & filter periodically to help minimize the amount of band contaminant depositing within the transmission oil feeds, particularly the valve body.

There is also the issue about severe service involving cars run in unusually dusty/dirty environments, run prolonged extremely hot and/or which have become contaminated by moisture (eg, flooding).

All these issues are enunciated in the typical car owners manual.

The transmission needs to be serviced accordingly.



All this reminds me of the guy that brought his dead battery into Kragen for exchange and the counter clerk told him that the battery had run out of water. The battery purchaser reminded the clerk that the battery stated "maintenance free".

The clerk told him that there was no such thing as "maintenance free" and refused to honor the battery's warranty !


PS: It is true though that once a system becomes too filthy, then it might be best to leave sleeping dogs lie as changing to new fluid might not only disturb/aggregate accumulated dirt, but also then distribute it throughout the system resulting in rapid system failure.

 

[Midwayman]

Thing to keep in mind with manufacture recommendations- They only care that your car lasts until the warranty is up.

 

[bryanl]

Didn't exactly plan on a flush, based on the research I've done, however, opinion seems to be split on whether I should even touch the tranny fluid that may be original (193K on the tranny), or just prep my bank account for a future rebuild/manual swap, hence why I posted here.

Things seem to be working fine though, no slipping, and quick shifts, just slightly harsh shifting at low speed, smooth otherwise, and my driving is 90% highway. So I'm leaning toward gradually getting some new fluid in there.

Some shops do a flush even if you don't ask for it since they have the machine and don't feel like removing the pan. At least opinion among manufacturers isn't split between flushing and draining/refilling: some have issued TSBs warning against flushing, but none have issued TSBs favor it over drain/refill. But some have recommended what Lean L mentioned: drain & refill 3x. That includes Chrysler in the 1990s, when its then new 4-speed automatic was filled with Dexron, contrary to Chrysler's recommendation but according to the directions stamped into the dip stick.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Go to any auto book and look at how an auto tranny works. You will see that it is a friction device (ie, composed of bands and clutches). As these wear, the material is carried away by the transmission fluid and accumulated via the transmission's oil filter.

If too much band wear material accumulates in the valve body, then those valves can stick/bind and the effect typically is noticeable rough or delayed shifting.

It behooves one to change out the transmission oil & filter periodically to help minimize the amount of band contaminant depositing within the transmission oil feeds, particularly the valve body.

There is also the issue about severe service involving cars run in unusually dusty/dirty environments, run prolonged extremely hot and/or which have become contaminated by moisture (eg, flooding).

All these issues are enunciated in the typical car owners manual.

The transmission needs to be serviced accordingly.



All this reminds me of the guy that brought his dead battery into Kragen for exchange and the counter clerk told him that the battery had run out of water. The battery purchaser reminded the clerk that the battery stated "maintenance free".

The clerk told him that there was no such thing as "maintenance free" and refused to honor the battery's warranty !


PS: It is true though that once a system becomes too filthy, then it might be best to leave sleeping dogs lie as changing to new fluid might not only disturb/aggregate accumulated dirt, but also then distribute it throughout the system resulting in rapid system failure.

Perhaps I should just ask a pro for an opinion. Even if said pro delivers bad news, I can at least figure my options, money-wise out before bad stuff happens. (An up front 3k repair hurts)

The irony of this being I've seen better maintained trannys quit well before mine, and neglected ones quitting at 100k. This is a good reason why I'm wary anyway, even if there's nothing amiss at the moment.

 

[ummduh]

At nearly 200k, I wouldn't touch that fluid anymore. Changing it all but guarantees its demise sooner rather than later.

Unless you can find proof it's been serviced before.