Lifeline Internet 2016 thread

[VirtualLarry]

Anyone heard anything more? Other than a short pilot program by Comcast, that offered a limited-time deal for sub-par speed internet for $10, for families with children in a subsidized school lunch program, I'm really not aware of anything else available, and I don't even think that Comcast plan is even available anymore.

Why aren't cable / internet companies offering price plans for all ranges? Some retired or disabled people would desperately like something that's under $30 / mo for basic internet. (Single-user browsing / streaming, non-heavy downloading / non-torrenting.)

I was getting 25Mbit down/6Mbit up, from Comcast for $40/mo under a 1-year new customer promo, but that's recently been jacked up to $70, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to cancel that this month, as I don't have enough money to pay for it.

I'd even settle for a 3-5Mbit service, for $30/mo. Call it "DSL-like", or whatever. I know that Comcast offers "Starter" internet (3Mbit), but it no longer shows up on their web site to order. Last time I saw it, it was $40/mo too.

Edit: Tom Wheeler, on "Lifeline broadband", from Mar. 2016.
https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2016/03/08/broadband-lifeline-21st-century

Edit: Here's a CNN piece, from the same time frame. Seems to indicate that the Fed. Gov't will subsidize broadband access to the tune of nearly $10/mo, or provide 500MB/mo of data service with their lifeline cell phones, with a HotSpot feature.

What I really want, is some sort of competitive landscape for wireline broadband, so that we have some cheaper plan options. Not everyone needs 100Mbit/sec all-you-can-eat broadband. Sure, it's nice, but that's a luxury compared to a basic connection for surfing, e-mail, and forums like these.

Here's a FAQ. Answers most of my questions:
http://www.connectednation.org/sites/default/files/bb_pp/05052016_lifeline_modernization_faqs.pdf

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Last time I had a "slow" connection it was $50/month for 1.5Mbps DSL (without phone service.)

 

[cbn]

Other than a short pilot program by Comcast, that offered a limited-time deal for sub-par speed internet for $10, for families with children in a subsidized school lunch program, I'm really not aware of anything else available, and I don't even think that Comcast plan is even available anymore.

Why aren't cable / internet companies offering price plans for all ranges? Some retired or disabled people would desperately like something that's under $30 / mo for basic internet. (Single-user browsing / streaming, non-heavy downloading / non-torrenting.)

I was getting 25Mbit down/6Mbit up, from Comcast for $40/mo under a 1-year new customer promo, but that's recently been jacked up to $70, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to cancel that this month, as I don't have enough money to pay for it.

I'd even settle for a 3-5Mbit service, for $30/mo. Call it "DSL-like", or whatever. I know that Comcast offers "Starter" internet (3Mbit), but it no longer shows up on their web site to order. Last time I saw it, it was $40/mo too.

Here is a list of some programs:

http://www.cheapinternet.com/low-income-internet

 

[cbn]

The PCs for people program is interesting because they give you a mobile hotspot:

http://www.cheapinternet.com/low-income-internet/pcs-for-people

The hotspot costs $74.95 and the monthly fees break down as follows:

• 3 Months for $40
• 6 Months for $75
• 12 Months for $120

 

[VirtualLarry]

You da man, CBN. Last time I checked that site, a few years back, I didn't see that program listed.

I think I'm eligible for that. Internet for $10/mo, whee! Talk about savings.

I might have to curtail seeding Linux ISOs though.

Should I tried to get that as a backup service, or should I drop FIOS too, I wonder.

How is Sprint's 4G LTE service? I'm in a service area, thankfully.

I have a friend that's in the low-income bracket too, he might be interested as well.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You da man, CBN. Last time I checked that site, a few years back, I didn't see that program listed.

I think I'm eligible for that. Internet for $10/mo, whee! Talk about savings.

I might have to curtail seeding Linux ISOs though.

Should I tried to get that as a backup service, or should I drop FIOS too, I wonder.

How is Sprint's 4G LTE service? I'm in a service area, thankfully.

I have a friend that's in the low-income bracket too, he might be interested as well.

Isn't FIOS like $100/month? If you qualify for the $10/mo. one, you might consider cancelling that, yeah.

 

[mnewsham]

FiOS in this area anyway starts at $50/month

$50 for 50/50
$60 for 100/100
$70 for 150/150
$170 for 300/300
$270 for 500/500

 

[XavierMace]

If you stopped buying underpowered computers and upgrades for old computers, you could afford the $70/mo for internet.

 

[VirtualLarry]

$50 for 50/50
$60 for 100/100
$70 for 150/150

I wish I could get those prices. They must be region-specific, new-customer-only, and pre-wired.

150/150 here is like $140, for an existing customer.

Edit: The lowest-price Comcast service offered here, is 10Mbit/sec down, for $50/mo.

 

[mnewsham]

I wish I could get those prices. They must be region-specific, new-customer-only, and pre-wired.

150/150 here is like $140, for an existing customer.

Edit: The lowest-price Comcast service offered here, is 10Mbit/sec down, for $50/mo.

Probably regional, around here comcast offers 50/5 for $70/month 75/10Mbps for $80/month or 150/20mbps for $85

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you stopped buying underpowered computers and upgrades for old computers, you could afford the $70/mo for internet.

If I could get internet for $10/mo instead of $90, then I could afford a lot more underpowered computers to play with.

 

[cbn]

I might have to curtail seeding Linux ISOs though.

https://pcsrefurbished.com/about/internetFAQ.aspx

Does the 4G LTE Service Plan provide unlimited data?

Yes. Through Mobile Beacon, PCs for People’s users will be able to use an unlimited 4G LTE data-only plan with no data caps or throttling. The data plan is subject to Sprint’s network management policy for the unlimited LTE plan it offers its own retail customers.*

*Sprint “Quality of Service” Practices (QoS): Unlimited customers who use more than 23 GB of data during a billing cycle will be deprioritized during times and places where the Sprint network is constrained.

See sprint.com/networkmanagement for details. Limited time offer. Coverage not available everywhere. See sprint.com/coverage for details and search for 4G LTE data coverage. Subject to availability. Eligibility restrictions and other restrictions may apply. All service plans are subject to Mobile Beacon’s Terms and Conditions located at http://www.mobilebeacon.org/legal.

https://www.sprint.com/legal/open_internet_information.html?ECID=vanity:networkmanagement

Quality of Service (QoS): To help protect against the possibility that unlimited data plan customers that use high volumes of data may occupy an unreasonable share of network resources, Sprint employs network prioritization or QoS on the Sprint network. Customers who choose unlimited data handset plans launched on or after October 16, 2015, or customers who choose to upgrade their handsets or activate new lines of service on or after October 16 and are on unlimited data plans, that use more than 23GB (to be adjusted periodically) of data during a single billing cycle will be de-prioritized for the remainder of that billing cycle as compared to other customers at times and places where the availability of network resources is constrained. Affected unlimited data customers will continue to be able to enjoy unlimited amounts of data without the worry of overage charges or hard, full time bandwidth reductions. Customers subject to prioritization may experience reduced throughput and increased latency compared to other customers on the constrained site and as compared to their normal experience on the Sprint network. Unlimited customers may also notice temporary changes in the performance of data intensive applications such as streaming video or online gaming when subject to prioritization. These temporary reductions in performance will only occur at times and places where capacity is constrained. Performance will return to normal as soon as the resource constraints have been relieved or the customer has relocated to a non-constrained location. Unlimited data customers potentially subject to lower QoS will be notified when their individual data usage reaches approximately 75% of 23 GB so that they may modify their usage to avoid network management practices that may result in slower data speeds. We will also notify customers when they have reached the 23 GB threshold and are now subject to de-prioritization.

So 23GB is the threshold and then performance (for the rest of the month) will depend on how congested your area is.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sure, the plan is "unlimited" (really, usage above a pre-set point, 23GB at current count, and you will be "de-prioritized"), but what about the MiFi device? I plan on using this internet for fixed-wire PCs, by re-directing my main router's WAN to wifi, using client or client bridge mode in Tomato, and piggybacking onto the MiFi's wifi signal with my main router, and then using my existing WiFi network for my WiFi clients on my LAN.

The question then becomes about the MiFi device, and how well it stands up, as far as battery versus power usage (It only charges at 5V 1.0A, and according to the user guide, it uses more power when operating.) So I'm concerned first of all, if I'll even be able to utilize the internet 24/7 using this MiFi device, or whether I need to let it "rest" and charge while I sleep. (Kind of puts the damper on doing DC on rigs using the MiFi for internet.) Also, will it stand up to torrent usage, and if so, will its power usage go to max, and exceed the charging port's power limits, thus draining battery?

 

[cbn]

The question then becomes about the MiFi device, and how well it stands up, as far as battery versus power usage (It only charges at 5V 1.0A, and according to the user guide, it uses more power when operating.) So I'm concerned first of all, if I'll even be able to utilize the internet 24/7 using this MiFi device, or whether I need to let it "rest" and charge while I sleep. (Kind of puts the damper on doing DC on rigs using the MiFi for internet.) Also, will it stand up to torrent usage, and if so, will its power usage go to max, and exceed the charging port's power limits, thus draining battery?

According to the user manual here the Franklin Wireless R850 max power consumption is 2.52W (search "Power consumption" using Control F1) so 5V 1.0A charging would cover that.

With that mentioned, I do wonder what performance would be like in your area should you exceed 23GB?

(I am assuming if exceeding 23GB you could get full speed back at night time when folks stop using their handsets, but what about day time?)

 

[XavierMace]

Also, will it stand up to torrent usage

So you make this big deal about cheap internet for low income people, just enough for basic surfing, email. Somebody gives you a possible choice, and you immediately want to know if it will stand up to torrent usage? This is why you can't have nice things.

Companies aren't offering cheap plans because people don't really just want basic internet anymore, save for some seniors. Even my parents who are pretty close to the "senior" age, use Netflix at least a few hours a day pretty much every day. 3mbps wouldn't cut it for what they want to do with their internet.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd rather have a 3-10Mbit/sec fixed wireline service for $30/mo, than cell-phone internet, TBH. Then I could probably still spread the love of Linux.

That's not the primary usage of my connection, though, and I don't have to do that.

I was honestly more speculating of whether it was technically possible to torrent on the MiFi, and what the result might be. I'm probably not going to actually do that. I have a feeling that, regardless of network load, Sprint might consider it an "abuse" of their 4G LTE connection, if I did a few TB of transfers a month on their service.

 

[cbn]

A thread from Reddit on the issue of Sprint's data prioritzation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sprint/comments/3pbyp5/sprints_new_network_management_for_unlimited_users/

One person (in the comments) claimed to use 165GB in month with no speed drop:.

So I didn't experience any deprioritization last month and I used 165GB Last month I'm on boost if that matters, I'll see if it happens this month, only 2 days into my cycle so far, and haven't used much data (3 GB so far, most likely wont be using as much as last month)

Edit: I might have guessed wrong on my usage this month at 60 GB already, speeds still seem fine

I guess this person lives in a non-busy area.

P.S. Here is what T-mobile (not Sprint) had to say about data priorization:

http://www.tmonews.com/2015/05/t-mobiles-de-prioritization-explained/

Will I feel the effect?

The answer to that is “probably not”. First off, it’s very unlikely that you’re in the top 3% of data users unless you’re going crazy downloading tons of content over LTE. Secondly, it depends very much on what the network conditions are like in your area and how many people are using the same cell tower at once. If you’re a high user in an area where the network is unlikely to feel the effects of congestion, you won’t notice much difference, if any at all.

T-Mobile notes in its communication to staff that the “overwhelming majority of customers that have their data requests de-prioritized are in places of normal network contention. This means that while they may see their speeds drop a bit and will be slower than other folks on that tower, they are still getting really strong data speeds (and are not likely to call in to Care).”

Network contention is where multiple users are trying to access the same tower at the same time. Congestion is when there are so many that services/speeds are impacted.

In most cases, during normal contention, the difference in speed should be small enough that customers won’t even notice the difference. As an example, once customer might be getting 20Mbps download speeds while the de-prioritized next is getting 10-12Mbps.


During these busy times, if you’re in that 3% of high users, your access to the network is seen as less of a priority that those who use much less data.


Congestion doesn’t happen everywhere and only affects a small number of towers. But these are the areas where customers are more than likely going to feel the pinch of drastically reduced speeds if they have been de-prioritized. In many cases, in these heavily congested areas, speeds could be around or below 1Mbps.

De-prioritized customers will – more than likely – see their speeds increase during the evenings and weekends when the networks aren’t as busy. The traffic alleviating measures only really kick in during busy times and on busy sites.

“This is NOT a throttle”
T-Mobile has reiterated a number of times that it doesn’t “throttle” customers. And, as much as this might feel like being throttled to the high users in congested areas, it isn’t. In fact, in T-Mobile’s systems, customer accounts which have been de-prioritized will have a flagged notice which makes it clear that it isn’t a throttle, and that they are being bumped down the network access priority list for using a lot of data. Unlike throttling, which effects a customer regardless of how busy or quiet the local network is. This is an effort to stop congestion from having a serious impact on the network performance rather than being a blanket targeting of every single high data user.

Brandon, the original poster on Reddit stated later on that he spoke to someone from John Legere’s office who reiterated as much to him.

Long story short: Don’t worry about it unless you’re constantly watching movies over LTE and you live in a busy area.

Notice the quote of 1Mbps or less for deprioritized T-mobile users in busy areas.

If I find any examples of deprioritized Sprint user's speeds in busy areas I will post it....but for now this is the only example I could find.

 

[cbn]

Some retired or disabled people would desperately like something that's under $30 / mo for basic internet. (Single-user browsing / streaming, non-heavy downloading / non-torrenting.)

Comcast does have an Internet essentials pilot program for senior citizens (62 years or older, receiving federal or state public assistance specific to the area where they reside ) that includes the area of Boston, MA, Palm Beach County, FL, Philadelphia, PA, San Francisco County, CA and Seattle, WA:

https://internetessentials.com/seniors

And I noticed there is also a pilot program for community college students in Colorado and Illinois:

https://internetessentials.com/college

General Info on Internet Essentials below:

https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/internet/comcast-broadband-opportunity-program/

 

[VirtualLarry]

I may or may not drop FIOS. $90/mo is a lot, on my (meager) income.

These are my (Edit: main LAN router, connected to my FIOS service) transfer stats since I rebooted:

Date Download Upload Total
2016-08-26 (Fri)
2016-08-21 (Sun) 66.63 GB 922.98 GB 989.61 GB
2016-08-20 (Sat)
2016-08-14 (Sun) 79.64 GB 1,163.75 GB 1,243.39 GB
2016-08-13 (Sat)
2016-08-07 (Sun) 84.11 GB 1,249.81 GB 1,333.92 GB
2016-08-06 (Sat)
2016-07-31 (Sun) 102.11 GB 369.94 GB 472.05 GB
2016-07-30 (Sat)
2016-07-24 (Sun) 49.67 GB 623.94 GB 673.61 GB
2016-07-23 (Sat)
2016-07-17 (Sun) 111.87 GB 1,003.93 GB 1,115.80 GB
2016-07-16 (Sat)
2016-07-10 (Sun) 50.24 GB 1,022.19 GB 1,072.43 GB
2016-07-09 (Sat)
2016-07-06 (Wed) 30.11 GB 595.43 GB 625.54 GB

So, downloads range from 50-112GB weekly, and uploads range from 472-1333GB weekly.

FIOS sure is niiiice. Too bad it costs so much.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I've been using the PCs For People / pcsrefurbished.com / Mobile Beacon / Sprint MiFi 4G LTE internet for half a day so far.

Inititally, I wasn't so happy with it, and had trouble with internet radio streaming.

But I discovered later that my Win10 1511 desktop had updated to 1607 while I slept, so it must have been downloading in the background.

Also, I have my entire LAN on the MiFi for internet. I run Tomato on my main router, and I configured Wireless WAN / Client Mode wifi, to talk to the MiFi. My AC1200 / gigabit wired LAN handles my other PCs and laptops.

Thankfully, I can run the MiFi off of a 5V 1.0A USB charger, and it just sits on my shelf. It appears that it is able to run 24/7.

Speeds were below 2Mbit/sec down during the day, but that may have been because of Windows Update too. After midnight EST, I was getting 6-8Mbit/sec down, which is what they mentioned was ave speeds for the service in the write-up.

For $10/mo, I'm happy with it.

I'd be happier if Comcast would offer 10Mbit/sec fixed wireline service for $30/mo or less, but it is what it is.

Latency on the MiFi is nearly 80-100ms, so this is no solution for gaming.

Edit: I'm just a single guy, so I don't consume much bandwidth by myself. I did have a NAS sharing Linux torrents, on my 50/50 FIOS connection, but I've stopped that.

I'm going to test my bandwidth tomorrow during the day, since my PC is no longer downloading a huge update. If it stays north of 3-5Mbit/sec down, then I think that this service is a keeper, and I can possibly cancel one of my other internet services.

Edit: fast.com speedtest shows 2.0Mbit/sec right now, at 3:45PM EST on Sat. I was getting 5.0Mbit/sec after midnight last night (Fri. night).

So it looks like speed does fluctuate (downwards) during the day. (It's Sat., it's not even a business day.)

Also, the latency to the Boston Comcast speedtest.net server showed 58ms ping. For some reason, speedtest.net detects and defaults me to servers in KS.

 

[jimbob200521]

Didn't read through everything in this thread but wanted to drop my two cents. Comcast is the devil, we all know this. For years now, my wife and I have been alternating Comcast accounts. In that I mean year one we would get a promotional plan for internet in my name. The plan would usually be 25 down 5 up or something in that range. Then at the end of that year, cancel it in my name and get a new promotional plan in my wifes name. Next year, cancel hers and set it up in mine. Rinse and repeat. This last year we (me) finally got my head out of my ass and bought own very own cable modem instead of leasing one from Comcast. That brought our bill down to I think $20 a month. Well, I get a call about a month ago to notify me (how nice of them) that my promotional rate will be ending soon. Long story short, they offered me a plan that upped my internet to 75 down 10 up but it was a package deal that had basic (and I do mean BASIC) cable included for the price of $40 a month. I figured what the hell, I'll spoil myself. I asked the basic questions of "any other taxes, charges, hidden fee's, etc included with this?" to which I was reassured there was not. Fast forward to our first bill and it's got two random $10 charges on it, one was a "broadcast fee" and the other was a "speed increase" fee. I was pissed. Called Comcast and spent 45 minutes on the phone with an admittedly nice gentleman letting him know how displeased I was and if we couldn't get the broadcast fee removed to take the price back to what I was told, I was canceling. He explained the broadcast fee to me, that it was the TV stations fault and not Comcast's so he could not remove it. But (and this is the part of the story I took my time getting to) he offered me a deal: he would remove the "speed increase" fee to get my price back to what I wanted but I'd have to sign a 2 year contact with cancellation fee's. I grumbled but figured that if I could lock in $40/month for 75mb internet for two years, that wouldn't be all that bad of a plan. So the point to my story is if you call Comcast and push a little bit, they may have some kind of longer term contract pricing that would be lower than what they usually advertise. YMMV.

Comcast is the devil, that is all.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You can tell Windows you're on a metered connection and it should inform you and ask for permissions before it downloads stuff.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You can tell Windows you're on a metered connection and it should inform you and ask for permissions before it downloads stuff.

I was reading up on that last night.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...0/e4384dd6-d483-4600-b0d9-4c6ff6ad0416?auth=1

You can inhibit updates & other background data usage by setting your limited data plan network as "Metered" and then connect to an unlimited network when there are updates or other big downloads to be done. This applies to all Windows 10 Editions not just Pro.

Each non-LAN network {including WiFi networks & phone hotspots} can have a "Metered connection" property set on it. Metered networks do not allow updates to be downloaded. Windows updates will be withheld until you connect to a network that you have not identified as Metered.

You cannot set LAN networks as Metered. As I have not seen a description of a satellite connection I cannot tell how that will behave but the existing MS guidance, such as it is, only mentioned LAN connections as not being used as Metered so I think it must all depend on how the system recognises your sat network.

That won't work for me, because my computers are on a LAN, and MS in their infinite wisdom won't let you set
LAN networks as "Metered".

 

[VirtualLarry]

So you make this big deal about cheap internet for low income people, just enough for basic surfing, email. Somebody gives you a possible choice, and you immediately want to know if it will stand up to torrent usage? This is why you can't have nice things.

Just a followup comment to this - Windows 10's Windows Update uses a "torrent-like" protocol for updates. So, seeing if the MiFi will stand up to "torrent usage", in this case, could simply mean whether or not it will handle Windows Updates.

Sadly, as I've learned, it does NOT.

When any Windows 10 PC on my LAN does updates, everything else on the LAN, even internet radio streaming on other machines, stutters and disconnects.

This does not happen when I download large / many ISOs with Waterfox.

I'm presently trying to figure out if I can configure Windows Update with a registry entry to use HTTPS downloads, rather than torrents.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I was reading up on that last night.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...0/e4384dd6-d483-4600-b0d9-4c6ff6ad0416?auth=1


That won't work for me, because my computers are on a LAN, and MS in their infinite wisdom won't let you set
LAN networks as "Metered".

But aren't you connecting to the hotspot via WiFi? Or does it actually do Ethernet?

Anyway, there's probably a way to hack that.