Life and Death

CSammy

Junior Member
May 4, 2005
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First off, I do not intend this thread to turn into a religion vs science debate. I?m simply offering my own point of view of what life is, and the significance of death from a philosophical and scientific standpoint.

Life

People often ask themselves what is the meaning of life. They cherish their uniqueness and take pride in their own self. I believe our views of physical life needs to be changed. The human race, for example, can be considered a single organism?..each person a miniscule component to a greater entity much like cells in our body. A person, much like a human cell, cannot exist on its own. It?s sole purpose is to multiply and support a larger mass. Nucleotides to DNA, DNA to chromosomes, chromosomes to cells, cells to tissue, tissue to organs, organs to human being, human being to human populace.

What is the significance of viewing the human race as a single organism (other than breaking man imposed limits on what life should be)? It gives a better understanding of distinguishing biological life from consciousness, in which there is a great difference most people don?t realize. Scientists, when pondering the existence of life elsewhere in the universe, often establish a rigid set of rules of what ?life? should be, the most common of these rules being carbon based, need for oxygen/water, and select temperature tolerances. Scientists will tell you a planet without oxygen and water is a planet without life. However, is that the correct way to ponder the existence of universal life? The answer is no.

Imagine yourself holding a mirror in your hand, gazing upon your reflection. You then leave your house and search the entire planet for someone who looks exactly like you. Chances are, you will fail... This can best describe man?s effort to look for life elsewhere in the universe?.we look for life based on our version of life, and we may never find it. Even scientists who look for traces of bacteria or other microscopic ?life?, may be looking for their own reflection in a world full of people. We are limited to what we can imagine what life can be, as the sheer permutation of all possibilities is beyond our scope. However, to further the analogy, we can say we can find people that resembles our own face (there may be life out there that share some common aspects of our own), but to exclude all else and only look for that tiny aspect would be sheer ignorance.

For example, given the proper catalyst, life could have easily flourished on the hostile (to us anyways) plains of Venus, or Neptune?.its basic components would simply not be based on our own earthly (carbon, water, oxygen) prerequisites. It would be a product of its environment, and that notion alone indicates life can truly exist anywhere in forms beyond our comprehension. Recent discoveries of deep ocean based creatures that survives not on oxygen, but poisonous liquids have helped changed scientists? long standing perceptions on what conditions life should exist, and in what form.

Death?

Death has always been a mystery to human kind, as those who experience its grip tell no tells. Even folks who have claimed to experience ?near death? or ?light at the end of the tunnel? experiences have never truly crossed the line of death, as clinical death (no pulse, no breathing)) is not the same as brain death. Scientists have even demonstrated ?near death? experiences in a controlled environment of depriving the brain of blood for a few minutes, where subjected volunteers often describe similar situations experienced by people who suffer the same brain deprived state by accidental/natural causes.

So what really happens at death? Do you go to heaven or hell? (Which would be a mighty populated place, 4 billion people per 70 years?..factor in the time of the dawn of religion, or the first man millions of years ago, you have a mighty packed nightclub!) However I am not going to get into the religion debate here, but I am going to offer a philosophical explanation with scientific founding.

In order to understand death, most people need to change their interpretation of life. I once believed that in order to understand or visualize death, you simply needed to imagine your life before you were born. Quite a difficult feat, isn?t it? That?s exactly what I thought death would be?a state similar to before you were born.

However, I came to realize ?consciousness? is only a state of mind, especially in the context of the overall human race. Here is a simple thought experiment?.imagine your entire life through the eyes of someone else. Look at the person next to you, then imagine yourself as that person, who is looking at your original self. Once you are able to attain such an understanding, you will realize life is beyond mere single entities?..it is the encompassment of everything that is the human ?organism.?

Live your life and die. Live another person?s life and die. Repeat. Ad infinity. However, this cycle is NOT in series?.as shown below:

----()----()----()----()----()---()---etc..

In the above diagram, a person lives his life (line) and dies (circle). THEN goes on to live another life, and dies again, all in some sort of straight line series. That is not what quite happens.

This is what the cycle truly is:
---()
---()
---()
---()
etc?

A state of consciousness in parallel. Meaning, the consciousness you experience is in parallel to everyone else in any other point in time. You die, your life comes to an end?..someone born at any time before, or any time after?.is also you. Yet, there is no connection between those two lives?it is simply a state of consciousness. To shock you some more, parallelism doesn?t require you to die. The consciousness you felt growing up with your father is the same consciousness your son is growing up with you?.and the same consciousness for every other person on the planet, in times of past and in the times of the future. In this viewpoint of life, as a single human organism, in essence you will never die until the last person or animal life on earth dies.

If that is too much to handle, its also quite possible your ?consciousness? will be limited to ?you? only, with your life lived in every possible way if quantum theory holds true concerning probability and infinite universes.

A more simplistic view is the ?cockroach? organism. The roach sees only darkness and light. Its life is quick. The ?roach? organism would see complete darkness with an innumerate number of a ?series of flickering light?, each flicker of light being the life cycle of a single roach up to the point of death, much like grand television screen of static. Add a time dimension, you have a very complicated static screen.

Last words

Life, death, the material world, the entire universe?..all is a mystery to us. One can easily escape to the preachings of religion or pure science, but I suspect the answer truly lies in a state of mind we have yet to discover, because we are incapable of envisioning such a breakthrough. It may be entirely plausible what we conceive as the entire visible universe, 15 billion light years across, and the ?whole universe?, which may be up to 60 billion light years across, is analogous to the nucleus of an atom?..part of something far grander that we will never visualize or come close to grasping the scope of.

Our speck of life is only a tiny fractional part of that grand scheme. Perhaps one day someone, or a group of people (or maybe perhaps God himself?) will enlighten us to our own humanity.

 

icejunkie

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2004
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OMG I actually read that whole fvcking thing. I liked it, but I don't agree with some of it :)
 

jEct2

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2005
1,726
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Life is all about happiness. Whether it be doing volunteer work, family, romance, career climb, faith in religion, if you're not happy, life sucks

.
 

cmp1223

Senior member
Jun 7, 2004
522
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First lay off the weed. Second, plenty of scientist allow the definition of life to be used in regards to creatures other than ourselves. As humans, and mammals, we process glucose and use oxygen. You need only to look as far as plants to see life that uses oxygen differently. Carbon, on the other hand, probably a requisite for life. Using the perdiodic table, as we now it, carbon is a very nifty building block for any type of organic material. Disregarding carbon, the only definition left for life would probably be some type of intelligence, but again, its intelligence according and in reference to us humans.

Also, you use the term "consciousness" flippantly, as you have probably never read a book dealing with the basics of physcology. Of course these books could be wrong, but you can't communicate with muddled vocabulary. It seems you are trying to suggest a "leaves of a tree" type metaphor. Where we are the leaves, connected to each other through a common bind as memebers of the same species (the tree trunk). Is this what you where getting at?

And yes welocme to ATOT. Deja vu is correct rudder. Every so often someone comes here to pour out their philosophy to fellow ATOTers. What is the definition of life? Death is cyclical! What if trying to understand our universe is like teaching physics to a dog? Man, this is like far out! HEard it all before...
 

Mucho

Guest
Oct 20, 2001
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I read it all. All I can say is: life is but a dream and death the rude awakening
 

CSammy

Junior Member
May 4, 2005
20
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Finally a noteworthy response, although your first line (and previous responses from others) indicates these forums have been the breeding ground of hateful threads for some time now. Probably too much ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel.

We (humans, along with all other animal and plant life) are products of our environment. We've evolved as carbon based life forms because of some cataclysmic event scientists can't seem to agree on, because the "ingredients" here on earth (water, oxygen) was prime for such form of life.

That does not mean if we were to search for life elsewhere, we should look only for planets with plenty of oxygen and water. Scientists have indeed theorized the existence of silicone based, methane based, and ammonia based life forms in environments hostile to our own but suitable for other types. Unfortunately, most prescriptions for these other forms of life are still biased towards earth-based idealisms, because we simply dont know any better.
 

scorpmatt

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
7,040
97
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Originally posted by: tlam617
Obviously if the meaning of life is 42.. the meaning of death is 24....

DERRR

obviously you have had to much to drink, 42 is not the meaning of life, just the answer to life (not the meaning of), the universe, everything
 

CSammy

Junior Member
May 4, 2005
20
0
0
wafflesandsyrup,

Your participation in this thread reminds me of a kid at an amusement park who's too short to get on a certain ride, but hangs around the area because he desperately wants to get on. You know, you have to be "this tall" before you're allowed to ride? Well, your IQ has to grow a little bit more before before you can contribute anything useful to this thread :D
 

NuclearNed

Raconteur
May 18, 2001
7,869
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Originally posted by: CSammy
wafflesandsyrup,

Your participation in this thread reminds me of a kid at an amusement park who's too short to get on a certain ride, but hangs around the area because he desperately wants to get on. You know, you have to be "this tall" before you're allowed to ride? Well, your IQ has to grow a little bit more before before you can contribute anything useful to this thread :D

You do realize that most people on this board are 12 year old geeks who are spending their summer vacation online pretending that they have a ferrari, screw lots of women, and can outdrink most sailors???