Lieberman-Warner Climate Bill

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Citrix
christ, for that kind of money put solar panels on all the houses in the US and all the extra energy that the home doesnt use it gets put out on the grid. I just dont understand why we have not had much more solar technology incorporated into our society, especially after all the brown/blackouts that certain parts of the country has experiences the last few summers.


I for one would love to see my meter run backwards.

I worked in this industry for a while, was about a year or two ago.

The quick answer to your question is a shortage of silicon. That shortage caused the price to shoot up about 300% and made securing supplies extremely difficult. Some companies, otherwise uninteresting, were acquisition targets merely because of their pre-existing silicon supply contracts. I.e., they were purchased merely to get to their silicon supply.

This shortage was caused by an incredible incresase in demand for solar panels. While CA has had a thriving market for some, some Euro countries like Germany instituted tax credits etc that created a ton of additional demand.

Fern

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Citrix
christ, for that kind of money put solar panels on all the houses in the US and all the extra energy that the home doesnt use it gets put out on the grid. I just dont understand why we have not had much more solar technology incorporated into our society, especially after all the brown/blackouts that certain parts of the country has experiences the last few summers.


I for one would love to see my meter run backwards.

I worked in this industry for a while, was about a year or two ago.

The quick answer to your question is a shortage of silicon. That shortage caused the price to shoot up about 300% and made securing supplies extremely difficult. Some companies, otherwise uninteresting, were acquisition targets merely because of their pre-existing silicon supply contracts. I.e., they were purchased merely to get to their silicon supply.

This shortage was caused by an incredible incresase in demand for solar panels. While CA has had a thriving market for some, some Euro countries like Germany instituted tax credits etc that created a ton of additional demand.

Fern

interesting, thanks for the info.

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: Citrix
christ, for that kind of money put solar panels on all the houses in the US and all the extra energy that the home doesnt use it gets put out on the grid. I just dont understand why we have not had much more solar technology incorporated into our society, especially after all the brown/blackouts that certain parts of the country has experiences the last few summers.


I for one would love to see my meter run backwards.

This would be very nice.

However, there are some issues with installing large amounts of distributed generation. The biggest is that, paradoxically, it puts more stress on local grids, and may require them to be significantly upgraded.

The point is that local power grids aren't that strong - the voltage droops under load. Because stiffening (reducing droop) is phenomenally expensive, requiring bigger transformers, heavier cables, etc. grids are designed for the expected load - giving maximum acceptable voltage under minimum load, and minimum acceptable voltage under maximum load.

If you add micro-generation, you reduce the minimum load, or even make it negative.The net result is a considerably higher fluctuation in voltage between minimum and maximum load (you can't rely on the generation being present at peak time), which will result in one or both of the worst case scenarios causing the grid to go out of spec.

 

[tidehigh]

Originally posted by: Mark R

Originally posted by: Citrix
christ, for that kind of money put solar panels on all the houses in the US and all the extra energy that the home doesnt use it gets put out on the grid. I just dont understand why we have not had much more solar technology incorporated into our society, especially after all the brown/blackouts that certain parts of the country has experiences the last few summers.


I for one would love to see my meter run backwards.

This would be very nice.

However, there are some issues with installing large amounts of distributed generation. The biggest is that, paradoxically, it puts more stress on local grids, and may require them to be significantly upgraded.

The point is that local power grids aren't that strong - the voltage droops under load. Because stiffening (reducing droop) is phenomenally expensive, requiring bigger transformers, heavier cables, etc. grids are designed for the expected load - giving maximum acceptable voltage under minimum load, and minimum acceptable voltage under maximum load.

If you add micro-generation, you reduce the minimum load, or even make it negative.The net result is a considerably higher fluctuation in voltage between minimum and maximum load (you can't rely on the generation being present at peak time), which will result in one or both of the worst case scenarios causing the grid to go out of spec.

zing!

 

[Ozoned]

Wow. Here is another one of Obama's plans.

 

[miketheidiot]

holy necro

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Wow. Here is another one of Obama's plans.

Why did you bump this?

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Wow. Here is another one of Obama's plans.

your hypocrisy is unreal. the co-author of this bill has rug burn on his knees from servicing John McCain the past few months.

 

[BrownTown]

Man, I am not a n overly violent person, but if this bill is passed it might actually push me to hurt some of its supporters. At the very least I would consider leaving the country . I'm already thinking about moving to Dubai.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Repeat after me:

CO2 is NOT a pollutant!

This bill is 100% retarded. It won't do anything except screw the USA over. Oh wait, that's how we'll hit that 80% reduction by 2050, the USA won't have any funds or capability of doing anything anymore by then.

 

[chess9]

This sort of legislation, like the bailout bill, points out one of the failures of our Republican form of Democracy. These issues are highly technical. Our legislatures are mostly lawyers. Does anyone expect a group of lawyers to fully understand all the technical issues involved in energy resource management? What about credit default swaps?

When it comes to the environment I have only three needs:

1. Clean air. We don't have it now and it's getting worse daily.
2. Slow CO2 emissions and man made causes of global warming.
3. Do one and two above without destroying our economy.

-Robert

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Mark R

Originally posted by: Citrix
christ, for that kind of money put solar panels on all the houses in the US and all the extra energy that the home doesnt use it gets put out on the grid. I just dont understand why we have not had much more solar technology incorporated into our society, especially after all the brown/blackouts that certain parts of the country has experiences the last few summers.


I for one would love to see my meter run backwards.

This would be very nice.

However, there are some issues with installing large amounts of distributed generation. The biggest is that, paradoxically, it puts more stress on local grids, and may require them to be significantly upgraded.

The point is that local power grids aren't that strong - the voltage droops under load. Because stiffening (reducing droop) is phenomenally expensive, requiring bigger transformers, heavier cables, etc. grids are designed for the expected load - giving maximum acceptable voltage under minimum load, and minimum acceptable voltage under maximum load.

If you add micro-generation, you reduce the minimum load, or even make it negative.The net result is a considerably higher fluctuation in voltage between minimum and maximum load (you can't rely on the generation being present at peak time), which will result in one or both of the worst case scenarios causing the grid to go out of spec.

Someone is giving you some misleading information.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: IGBT
..has nothing to do with actual warming/cooling. They're frothing at the mouth to get any punitive tax/emission credit scam going because the global warming lobotomy has been highly effective. They can get their scams institutionalized with little resistance. All the eco-theists are on board and walking around with their wallets open. It's a huge cash cow.

QFT. :thumbsup:

Eco-theists? You mean the bill sponsored by Republican John Warner and (Ind) Joe Lieberman, neither of whom is a liberal or an eco-theist.

According to an aide to Senator Lieberman, the bill ?would be the most historic incentive for nuclear in the history of the US?. It is estimated that throughout various incentives in the bill $500 billion could go to nuclear power

 

[GeezerMan]

They will probably put Goldman Sachs in charge of the climate plan, and then I'll apply for job there since the bonuses would be great.:thumbsup:

 

[bamacre]

Tracking...
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-2191

Looks like they'll need to update the co-sponsor list.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: chess9
This sort of legislation, like the bailout bill, points out one of the failures of our Republican form of Democracy. These issues are highly technical. Our legislatures are mostly lawyers. Does anyone expect a group of lawyers to fully understand all the technical issues involved in energy resource management? What about credit default swaps?

When it comes to the environment I have only three needs:

1. Clean air. We don't have it now and it's getting worse daily.
2. Slow CO2 emissions and man made causes of global warming.
3. Do one and two above without destroying our economy.

-Robert

1. The air is much cleaner than in recent history and continues to get cleaner. The epa is now worried about lawn equipment being a major source of pollution.

2. maybe

3. It can be done, it just a reasonable approach and big does of nuke power.

 

[Squisher]

This is bad news too.

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., will mount a challenge to become chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee

 

[jeffw2767602]

Wouldn't any fix for the energy crisis temporarily cripple our economy during the transition period? Just wondering if anyone has any info on this.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: jeffw2767602
Wouldn't any fix for the energy crisis temporarily cripple our economy during the transition period? Just wondering if anyone has any info on this.

A gradual move to cleaner coal and nuke could be done over the course of several decades without killing the economy.