Libs in this forum seem extremely angry

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,782
10,079
136


Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Just an observation, the libs in this forum seem extraordinarily hostile lately. I think it's because they are afraid the democrats will lose yet another election. What do you think?

People on the left including most media are predicting victory for the demos. People on the right are saying it's too close to call. Sounds like the '04 elections to me.

I think this is a different set of variables. If I had to guess how it'd turn out right now, I'd say the dems will get control of one side of congress. But the conservative base came out in droves and really upset the lib polsters and their media friends in '04.

They're mainly frustrated because their ideas (if there are any) go against what most of america wants. It's similar to how a child throws a tantrum when they don't get their way, even if the parent is doing it for the better good. Conservatives realize this and just ignore them until election day when we can make our will known.

Prediction? Republicans maintain control of the house/senate. You can't run on a platform/ideas if you don't have any.

I'm firmly in the belief that this high level of zeal for ones political party is the play out of a "political civil war". We're divided into two groups, waging a political war and each will win at all costs. I find the description fitting of the situation in this country, and being the explanation sought after in the OP.

I think the worst part of it, is that it spreads into and completely overwhelms all sense of right and wrong and what we need to do in this country. Paralysis is the order of the day as we fight amongst ourselves.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas


Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Just an observation, the libs in this forum seem extraordinarily hostile lately. I think it's because they are afraid the democrats will lose yet another election. What do you think?

People on the left including most media are predicting victory for the demos. People on the right are saying it's too close to call. Sounds like the '04 elections to me.

I think this is a different set of variables. If I had to guess how it'd turn out right now, I'd say the dems will get control of one side of congress. But the conservative base came out in droves and really upset the lib polsters and their media friends in '04.

They're mainly frustrated because their ideas (if there are any) go against what most of america wants. It's similar to how a child throws a tantrum when they don't get their way, even if the parent is doing it for the better good. Conservatives realize this and just ignore them until election day when we can make our will known.

Prediction? Republicans maintain control of the house/senate. You can't run on a platform/ideas if you don't have any.

I'm firmly in the belief that this high level of zeal for ones political party is the play out of a "political civil war". We're divided into two groups, waging a political war and each will win at all costs. I find the description fitting of the situation in this country, and being the explanation sought after in the OP.

I think the worst part of it, is that it spreads into and completely overwhelms all sense of right and wrong and what we need to do in this country. Paralysis is the order of the day as we fight amongst ourselves.



You should know, you eagerly play your part.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas

I'm firmly in the belief that this high level of zeal for ones political party is the play out of a "political civil war". We're divided into two groups, waging a political war and each will win at all costs. I find the description fitting of the situation in this country, and being the explanation sought after in the OP.

I think the worst part of it, is that it spreads into and completely overwhelms all sense of right and wrong and what we need to do in this country. Paralysis is the order of the day as we fight amongst ourselves.

Now, who would have the motive to spend huge sums on the political propaganda machinery to split the public and keep it against each other?

The small, ultra wealthy groups who want to increase control of our nation's wealth and power even more than they have already.

If you are furious that the other disagrees on some wedge issue, you aren't paying attention to the top 0.01% going up hundreds of percent in income while 90% of Americans are flat in real dollars, that the top 5% share of the wealth in America has gone from half to over three quarters (and therefore the bottom 90% from half to under one quarter), that Congress now basically works for a few of the biggest corporations and most wealthy people.

They want you to feel like you can't do anything about that, but you can get upset about Terry Schiavo or the wedge issue du jour.

This is how small groups get power in a democracy. Until the upcoming election, Congress had a well over 90% rate of incumbents winning, about 90% also of the candidate with the most spending winning. Where do they get money like that? You guessed it - the money needed to win elections is an 'invisible' way of giving a few people control of the system.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,782
10,079
136
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: Jaskalas


Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Just an observation, the libs in this forum seem extraordinarily hostile lately. I think it's because they are afraid the democrats will lose yet another election. What do you think?

People on the left including most media are predicting victory for the demos. People on the right are saying it's too close to call. Sounds like the '04 elections to me.

I think this is a different set of variables. If I had to guess how it'd turn out right now, I'd say the dems will get control of one side of congress. But the conservative base came out in droves and really upset the lib polsters and their media friends in '04.

They're mainly frustrated because their ideas (if there are any) go against what most of america wants. It's similar to how a child throws a tantrum when they don't get their way, even if the parent is doing it for the better good. Conservatives realize this and just ignore them until election day when we can make our will known.

Prediction? Republicans maintain control of the house/senate. You can't run on a platform/ideas if you don't have any.

I'm firmly in the belief that this high level of zeal for ones political party is the play out of a "political civil war". We're divided into two groups, waging a political war and each will win at all costs. I find the description fitting of the situation in this country, and being the explanation sought after in the OP.

I think the worst part of it, is that it spreads into and completely overwhelms all sense of right and wrong and what we need to do in this country. Paralysis is the order of the day as we fight amongst ourselves.



You should know, you eagerly play your part.

What's your opinion of political compass? I'm taking bets you've no idea who I am, and your opinion of political compass would drop dramatically if you knew I have always landed shortly past center on the liberal/ libertarian side of it.

For example, the neocons want the Patriot Act, but I say it can go to hell.

The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

If this forum were comprised mostly of conservatives, you?d see me combat their ideology every time I came across an issue I didn?t agree with, but it just so happens we?re in the home of the very liberal college age group and there is much posted by them for me to disagree on.

Yet, never once would I claim your President is behind grand conspiracies, or is to blame for all aspects of life I don?t like. I oppose BOTH the stances of the republicans and democrats take on multiple large issues (Border, Patriot Act, Spending, Size of Government), but unless I?m touting the anti-bush ?we?re the greatest threat to the world? dogma you?ll lump me up as another neocon whose apparently hell bent on destruction of this country. Does that about sum it up?

I understand the need to demonize people as the republican enemy; it?s just further demonstration of my previous point. It?s ironic, but Bush?s ?You?re either with us or against us? line of thought applies directly to both sides here in the country and is a very popular ideology in our conflict with ourselves.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: Jaskalas


Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: hellokeith
Just an observation, the libs in this forum seem extraordinarily hostile lately. I think it's because they are afraid the democrats will lose yet another election. What do you think?

People on the left including most media are predicting victory for the demos. People on the right are saying it's too close to call. Sounds like the '04 elections to me.

I think this is a different set of variables. If I had to guess how it'd turn out right now, I'd say the dems will get control of one side of congress. But the conservative base came out in droves and really upset the lib polsters and their media friends in '04.

They're mainly frustrated because their ideas (if there are any) go against what most of america wants. It's similar to how a child throws a tantrum when they don't get their way, even if the parent is doing it for the better good. Conservatives realize this and just ignore them until election day when we can make our will known.

Prediction? Republicans maintain control of the house/senate. You can't run on a platform/ideas if you don't have any.

I'm firmly in the belief that this high level of zeal for ones political party is the play out of a "political civil war". We're divided into two groups, waging a political war and each will win at all costs. I find the description fitting of the situation in this country, and being the explanation sought after in the OP.

I think the worst part of it, is that it spreads into and completely overwhelms all sense of right and wrong and what we need to do in this country. Paralysis is the order of the day as we fight amongst ourselves.



You should know, you eagerly play your part.

What's your opinion of political compass? I'm taking bets you've no idea who I am, and your opinion of political compass would drop dramatically if you knew I have always landed shortly past center on the liberal/ libertarian side of it.

For example, the neocons want the Patriot Act, but I say it can go to hell.

The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

If this forum were comprised mostly of conservatives, you?d see me combat their ideology every time I came across an issue I didn?t agree with, but it just so happens we?re in the home of the very liberal college age group and there is much posted by them for me to disagree on.

Yet, never once would I claim your President is behind grand conspiracies, or is to blame for all aspects of life I don?t like. I oppose BOTH the stances of the republicans and democrats take on multiple large issues (Border, Patriot Act, Spending, Size of Government), but unless I?m touting the anti-bush ?we?re the greatest threat to the world? dogma you?ll lump me up as another neocon whose apparently hell bent on destruction of this country. Does that about sum it up?

I understand the need to demonize people as the republican enemy; it?s just further demonstration of my previous point. It?s ironic, but Bush?s ?You?re either with us or against us? line of thought applies directly to both sides here in the country and is a very popular ideology in our conflict with ourselves.



Funny, because I could quote your other posts to back me up. I have never once called anyone here a "rightie, leftie, conservative, liberal, democrat, republican"... Those terms are not in my vocabulary. Please quote where I called you a republican...otherwise, quit your ASSumptions.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,782
10,079
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:

American never killing her killers is not where this forum or liberals stand.

Apparently, you are unable to debate the real issues where liberals draw the line, so you just misrepresent their position to make a straw man easier for you.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,782
10,079
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:

American never killing her killers is not where this forum or liberals stand.

Apparently, you are unable to debate the real issues where liberals draw the line, so you just misrepresent their position to make a straw man easier for you.

I firmly recall the anti war crowd being the rallying cry of the last couple elections, including this one. Then, all you have to do is look around for the pacifist views on North Korea and Iran.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:

American never killing her killers is not where this forum or liberals stand.

Apparently, you are unable to debate the real issues where liberals draw the line, so you just misrepresent their position to make a straw man easier for you.

I firmly recall the anti war crowd being the rallying cry of the last couple elections, including this one. Then, all you have to do is look around for the pacifist views on North Korea and Iran.


You OBVIOUSLY appreciate all the people we MURDERED in Iraq.. right?

How many INNOCENT people do you think we killed in Iraq.. you think we are pacifists for pointing that out? for pointing out that we PREEMPTIVELY attacked people who had nothing to do with 9/11

Get over yourself and all the BS talking points you try to create..
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:

American never killing her killers is not where this forum or liberals stand.

Apparently, you are unable to debate the real issues where liberals draw the line, so you just misrepresent their position to make a straw man easier for you.

I firmly recall the anti war crowd being the rallying cry of the last couple elections, including this one. Then, all you have to do is look around for the pacifist views on North Korea and Iran.


You OBVIOUSLY appreciate all the people we MURDERED in Iraq.. right?

How many INNOCENT people do you think we killed in Iraq.. you think we are pacifists for pointing that out? for pointing out that we PREEMPTIVELY attacked people who had nothing to do with 9/11

Get over yourself and all the BS talking points you try to create..

Jahalas, as I said, you are unable to debate the specific issues of liberals' positions on Iraq, Iran, North Korea, so you make a straw man lie about them you can use instead.

It's about as accurate to say liberals are in favor of never killing America's killers because of those issues as saying right-wingers favor killing all non-Americans.

It's a lie about liberals. When you cite it as your reason for not being a liberal, it shows how lacking of a reason you have.

The actual differences are more compicated than your straw man about when to go to war and when not to.

For example, on Iraq: liberals supported taking action against Saddam *if* he posed a real threat.

Liberals supported starting with the action of the UN arms inspectors dealing with the threat, and war as a last resort.

Republicans chose to expel the inspectors before they completed the inspections and going to war over WMD that weren't there, which the inspectors would have found.

You describe that position as never wanting to kill America's killers.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: hellokeith
(International Machine Consortium - it appears you did not pay attention to my responses in the two threads about the evangelical subject. I suggest you go back and respond to me in those threads instead of being off topic in this one.)

Shadow9d9 - Can you highlight which words or phrases in my original post you took as "angry, bitter, and provoking"?
(On your other point, I'm unsure there is even any point in discussing media bias. IMO, it has been shown many times over that the majority of the media is left liberal biased, but even if it could be proven, the libs would never accept the evidence. This is kinda off topic also, but I'd be open for a discussion on it in another thread.)

Red Dawn - Interesting point. Wouldn't it stand to reason that Libs in a forum minority would be more agitated? Or are Libs all just aggrevated and it doesn't matter the ratio?

LegendKiller - I don't believe I've ever called myself a Republican. I'd have to look back through all my threads, but I'm pretty sure I've only ever stood up for conservative and Christian values and not the Republican party per se.



Your so-called "conservative and Christian" (which really are neither) values are the very fvcking thing that is DESTROYING this country, as exemplified by the Republican party.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
I wasn't going to post on this topic but alas I have taken the bait.


Apparent anger isn't confined to "Libs" and the only people that think so are Rush zombies. I see a lot of angry people and to be honest I don't see how anyone who is informed could not be up in arms about what is going on right now.

This crosses all ideological bounds, our government at all levels has completely failed us, meaning all Americans of all political spectrums. They are not working in our best interests, but rather their own or their corporate sponsors. It's an affront to our Constitution; our very way of life itself.

Most importantly of all, it's a threat to Democracy as a form of government.

The list of failures is too long to list, but I would encourage you all to read this Rolling Stone article:

Worst Congress Ever


Here are some of my favs:

"Despite an international uproar over Abu Ghraib, Congress spent only twelve hours on hearings on the issue. During the Clinton administration, by contrast, the Republican Congress spent 140 hours investigating the president's alleged misuse of his Christmas-card greeting list."
******************************************************************
"From the McCarthy era in the 1950s through the Republican takeover of Congress in 1995, no Democratic committee chairman issued a subpoena without either minority consent or a committee vote. In the Clinton years, Republicans chucked that long-standing arrangement and issued more than 1,000 subpoenas to investigate alleged administration and Democratic misconduct, reviewing more than 2 million pages of government documents.

Guess how many subpoenas have been issued to the White House since George Bush took office? Zero -- that's right, zero, the same as the number of open rules debated this year; two fewer than the number of appropriations bills passed on time."
****************************************************************
"But let's take just one bill, the so-called energy bill, a big, hairy, favor-laden bitch of a law that started out as the wet dream of Dick Cheney's energy task force and spent four long years leaving grease-tracks on every set of palms in the Capitol before finally becoming law in 2005.

Like a lot of laws in the Bush era, it was crafted with virtually no input from the Democrats, who were excluded from the conference process. And during the course of the bill's gestation period we were made aware that many of its provisions were more or less openly for sale, as in the case of a small electric utility from Kansas called Westar Energy.

Westar wanted a provision favorable to its business inserted in the bill -- and in an internal company memo, it acknowledged that members of Congress had requested Westar donate money to their campaigns in exchange for the provision. The members included former Louisiana congressman Billy Tauzin and current Energy and Commerce chairman Joe Barton of Texas. "They have made this request in lieu of contributions made to their own campaigns," the memo noted. The total amount of Westar's contributions was $58,200."
******************************************************************
"In 2000, Congress passed 6,073 earmarks; by 2005, that number had risen to 15,877."
******************************************************************
AKA "Pork".


Anyways, it's a long read, and if you aren't pissed off by the time you read it, then there's something wrong with you.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:

American never killing her killers is not where this forum or liberals stand.

Apparently, you are unable to debate the real issues where liberals draw the line, so you just misrepresent their position to make a straw man easier for you.

I firmly recall the anti war crowd being the rallying cry of the last couple elections, including this one. Then, all you have to do is look around for the pacifist views on North Korea and Iran.


You OBVIOUSLY appreciate all the people we MURDERED in Iraq.. right?

How many INNOCENT people do you think we killed in Iraq.. you think we are pacifists for pointing that out? for pointing out that we PREEMPTIVELY attacked people who had nothing to do with 9/11

Get over yourself and all the BS talking points you try to create..



He's just proving my point about taking part in political games by his posting...
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx
Most useless port ever.

DEMs are mad, sure. Not for any reason you think about or take into consideration. We're mad because our economy is in the dumper, foreclosures are at an all-time high, job numbers are pathetic, we're suffering through a war that should have never been started, our public education system is the worst it's been...ever, and No Child Left Behind has set us back 40 years, we're in danger of losing social security for those who need it or will need it, our healthcare system is in shambles, do I need to go on? Bush has done nothing, absolutely NOTHING to advance this country, and has in most cases set us back decades. He didn't do it alone, but nothing he's done has improved any of those situations.

So yes, we're mad, but it's because of your ignorance and lack of ability to actually care about the direction this country is heading in, not because we didn't win in 2000 or in 2004, or because we might not win in 2006 or 2008, but because every time we don't win, it just shows how much lazier and self-centered this nation has become as a whole.

You'll get what you deserve, the rest of us will just have to deal with it.
I would like to personally thank Krakn3Dfx for illustrating the "extremely angry" lib that the OP was talking about.

Being unhappy with Bush is one thing, and lots of Republican are unhappy as well. He doesn't get a 40% approval rating because only Democrats are unhappy with him in a country that is some where around 45% R 45% D and 10% down the middle.

However, there a lot of people on here who have this irrational hatred of Bush and everything he does. And Krakn illustrates that behavior perfectly.

1. "economy is in the dumper" We just had 4 record stock market closing in a row, the market does not hit records when the economy is "in the dumper" plus we had a HUGE increase in government revenue last year, another sign that the economy is healthy. Also economic growth since the 2003 tax cuts has been at 3.5% which is higher than the average for the 1980's AND 1990's.

2. "foreclosures are at an all-time high" where are you getting your facts? I have not seen one article talking about any kind of "all-time high" Foreclosures are up for sure, but there are a variety of reasons for that. Mainly the fact that a lot of people bought to much house with all the interest rates gimmicks the banks pushed and now they can't pay them and since the housing market is slowing down they can't sell or refinance their way out of trouble. (I know it is callus, but rising foreclosures will force the lending industry to look at its practices and modify its behavior in the future to prevent this type of thing from happening again. In essence the market will correct its self. Which of course does nothing to help the poor people losing their homes.)

3. "job numbers are pathetic" unemployment is at 4.6% which matches a 5 year low. (In Florida the rate is less than 4%) And the rate is lower than the average of 1990's and lower than the first FIVE years Clinton was President. (Wasn't Clinton reelected because the economy was doing so well? And yet unemployment was 5.4% during his reelection campaign.) We've also added 6.6 million jobs since August 2003. AND best news of all wage growth this year is at 4.1% which is similar to the 1990's peak AND Real after-tax income is up 9% since 2001.

4. "war that should have never been started" that is personal opinion. A lot of people feel it was the right thing to do, but I am not going to argue that point since it is a waste on time and won't change any minds.

5. "our public education system is the worst it's been" How do you figure that? And the problem with our education system has been going on for years and years. At least Bush is trying something with "no child left behind" I don't recall much effort by the person in office before him. I don't think we can fix our education system until we take the power away from the teachers unions and put it back in the hands of the parents. That is why so many of us on the right support vouchers.

6. Social Security- Both sides are failing us in this regard. I am in favor of the private/public system that has been proposed. As the system stands today there is no way to fix it without changing the basic function of the system. Or allowing TONS of immigration so that we add workers faster than they retire.

7. Health Care- again a problem that has been going on for FAR longer than Bush has been in power. We saw the Democrat solution via Hillary Care, a government take over of healthcare, I don't think so. Neither side is doing much at all about healthcare, beyond rolling it out at election time to scare voters in to voting for them.

On the last three. If the Democrats are so much better than the Republicans then how come there has not been ONE major proposal by a Democrat to fix any of these problems? And during Clinton's eight years we did not see one workable proposal either. On all three of these issues BOTH sides are failing to act.
Personally I trust the Republicans to come up with a solution for the last three more than the Democrats since any Republican solution will be less likely to involve some huge increase in the size and power of the government.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
ayabe You are right about how government is failing us at all levels.

However, it might be a little better if you posted a more neutral article to back up your assertion. Instead you post a Rolling Stone piece, a magazine that has turned way left politically (witness the BS Kennedy "Ohio was stolen" piece)

Also if you click the link and check out their 10 worst list, 9 of them are Republicans (William Jefferson being the only Democrat)

It is kind of ironic that in a thread about angry Libs you post an article by a liberal magazine that attacks the other side. In essence you just reinforced the "libs are angry" argument being put forth in this thread.
 

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,118
0
0
Originally posted by: ayabe
I wasn't going to post on this topic but alas I have taken the bait.


Apparent anger isn't confined to "Libs" and the only people that think so are Rush zombies. I see a lot of angry people and to be honest I don't see how anyone who is informed could not be up in arms about what is going on right now.

This crosses all ideological bounds, our government at all levels has completely failed us, meaning all Americans of all political spectrums. They are not working in our best interests, but rather their own or their corporate sponsors. It's an affront to our Constitution; our very way of life itself.

Most importantly of all, it's a threat to Democracy as a form of government.

The list of failures is too long to list, but I would encourage you all to read this Rolling Stone article:

Worst Congress Ever


Here are some of my favs:

"Despite an international uproar over Abu Ghraib, Congress spent only twelve hours on hearings on the issue. During the Clinton administration, by contrast, the Republican Congress spent 140 hours investigating the president's alleged misuse of his Christmas-card greeting list."
******************************************************************
"From the McCarthy era in the 1950s through the Republican takeover of Congress in 1995, no Democratic committee chairman issued a subpoena without either minority consent or a committee vote. In the Clinton years, Republicans chucked that long-standing arrangement and issued more than 1,000 subpoenas to investigate alleged administration and Democratic misconduct, reviewing more than 2 million pages of government documents.

Guess how many subpoenas have been issued to the White House since George Bush took office? Zero -- that's right, zero, the same as the number of open rules debated this year; two fewer than the number of appropriations bills passed on time."
****************************************************************
"But let's take just one bill, the so-called energy bill, a big, hairy, favor-laden bitch of a law that started out as the wet dream of Dick Cheney's energy task force and spent four long years leaving grease-tracks on every set of palms in the Capitol before finally becoming law in 2005.

Like a lot of laws in the Bush era, it was crafted with virtually no input from the Democrats, who were excluded from the conference process. And during the course of the bill's gestation period we were made aware that many of its provisions were more or less openly for sale, as in the case of a small electric utility from Kansas called Westar Energy.

Westar wanted a provision favorable to its business inserted in the bill -- and in an internal company memo, it acknowledged that members of Congress had requested Westar donate money to their campaigns in exchange for the provision. The members included former Louisiana congressman Billy Tauzin and current Energy and Commerce chairman Joe Barton of Texas. "They have made this request in lieu of contributions made to their own campaigns," the memo noted. The total amount of Westar's contributions was $58,200."
******************************************************************
"In 2000, Congress passed 6,073 earmarks; by 2005, that number had risen to 15,877."
******************************************************************
AKA "Pork".


Anyways, it's a long read, and if you aren't pissed off by the time you read it, then there's something wrong with you.



Our government is a sham, thats for sure.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,760
11,384
136
1. Stock market records only mean something to the well-off. How about the fact that real wages have gone DOWN in this "great economy"???

3. Did you know that unemployment % doesn't take into account those that have given up looking for work, or those that have had to take lesser paying jobs to replace wherever they used to work at??? Until it takes those into account, it's a bs statistic.

5. You've obviously never spoken with someone who's an educator. No child left behind is the absolute worst thing to happen to our public education system. Ask any teacher/admin, and they'll back it up. It's underfunded, and punitive.

You're a freaking brick wall. Except the wall actually learns.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Since when is being disgusted with Bush and the Assholes in Congress the sole domain of the "Libs"?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
ayabe You are right about how government is failing us at all levels.

However, it might be a little better if you posted a more neutral article to back up your assertion. Instead you post a Rolling Stone piece, a magazine that has turned way left politically (witness the BS Kennedy "Ohio was stolen" piece)

Also if you click the link and check out their 10 worst list, 9 of them are Republicans (William Jefferson being the only Democrat)

It is kind of ironic that in a thread about angry Libs you post an article by a liberal magazine that attacks the other side. In essence you just reinforced the "libs are angry" argument being put forth in this thread.

Is there a better example where ideology is put ahead of the truth? Not one word about the accuracy of the article, which likely was not even read beyond a skim.

It's nice circular logic. The parties are equally corrupt, proven by the fact that any article saying otherwise is 'biased', so all the remaining articles say it's evenly split.
 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,664
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Originally posted by: ebaycj
Your so-called "conservative and Christian" (which really are neither) values are the very fvcking thing that is DESTROYING this country, as exemplified by the Republican party.

CJ,

You do not know me, so I'm confused why you would accuse me of lying about who I am. Conservative Chrisitians are one of the most attacked, maligned, discriminated groups in this country, in the world even. The fact that I *am* a conservative Christian I can try to prove to you, if you like. And I do not see how traditional Husband/Wife marriage, sexual abstinence before marriage, and feeding the poor from church pantries is destroying the country.

The amount of insults coming from the libs in this thread is exactly the focus of my topic. Can you guys make your points in civilized fashion?
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
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0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
The beef I have against liberals on national security cannot be repaired; the manta of never killing our killers does not appeal to me and never will.

You're posting a lie about liberals.

Cause pacifism is so obviously not where this forum stands. :confused:

Would you consider our invasion of Afghanistan "pacifism"? I haven't seen anybody on P&N that opposes it.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
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Originally posted by: hellokeith
Conservative Chrisitians are one of the most attacked, maligned, discriminated groups in this country, in the world even.

I agree with you on the "maligned" part :laugh:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: MIDIman
Originally posted by: conjur
When's the last time a Republican took responsibility for anything?

Foley ("Oh, a Priest molested me. No wait, it's the alcohol!")

When's the last time a Republican cared squat for America, in general, instead of the corporation keeping him in office?

I'm sorry, is Foley still in office? When was the last time you even saw him in public? Don't you think losing his job and his career is taking responsibility? But besides that, how about:

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said. link from the "evil" news organization.

The real point of the OP's thread, IMHO, is that this forum's postings have turned to a ridiculous staging ground of Bush bashing. Just about every thread within a post or two is angry chat - be it for or against the Bush Administration. If there were even 10% of postings talking about real issues that were not complete slander and had substance beyond "Why is Bush so stupid" I would probably actually spend some more time posting here...

A perfect example.... People around here would rather run around screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs towards anyone with an (R) next to their name (which I have *actually* experienced, at work even), than come together and, oh I don't know, maybe find ground that everyone agrees on and get the government to do something about it?

Oh well...rant over. See you all in 2 years.

Foley has not 'taken responsibility'. He was caught. He resigned - he had no choice in leaving.

Other republicans have been caught - after denying and evading responsibility as long as they could.

They lie. Bush and the August 6 PDB (which I don't think could probably have stopped the attacks, the point is the lie)? Rice lied about it before she knew it would get released.

Bush saying no one could have anticipated the Katrina problems? Then a videotape comes out showing him being warned in advance and doing nothing.

Foley? Contradictory statements by republican leaders about their actions.

The examples you cite - in Bush's statement, he nicely carves out the fact that he things the federal government should have almost no role - so no real mistakes.

He was just bowing again to political pressure and included a weasel phrase.

As far as issues for people to unite about - how about you uniting with others to oppose the US legalizaing torture and removing the right to Habeus Corpus?
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
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"Shadow9d9 - Can you highlight which words or phrases in my original post you took as "angry, bitter, and provoking"?
(On your other point, I'm unsure there is even any point in discussing media bias. IMO, it has been shown many times over that the majority of the media is left liberal biased, but even if it could be proven, the libs would never accept the evidence. This is kinda off topic also, but I'd be open for a discussion on it in another thread.) "

Read your topic name and description and your use of the term "libs."

Yes, we have an extremely liberal media that lambasted Bush on the invasion of Iraq before/during the invasion.. they really hit the idea of electronic voting being unreliable too... they are just so darn liberal! It is a myth to believe that the "media" is liberal, when the president and his administration will only appear/answer questions for one media outlet. Maaaaybe if your definition of "liberal" means pro-women's rights and anti-bigotry...