Libertarian ideas ever made you go..wtf?

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Unfortunately you have no idea what the good life is.

You are on welfare and hate welfare. Your life sucks.

LMAO, the more you talk, the more it sounds like you hate your life and are trying to bring me down to your level of self hate.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I don't have a problem with that, just pointing out that it's no different from what Bobberfett is doing. The rest of your rant irrelevant and a little too Craigish for me.

The anti-democracy line bugs me, I keep hearing stuff like "people only vote their own economic interests so the whole system sucks" -which really is not true the 99% of the time as we all know the system is really corporate mass media silly wedge issue driven) I know I bitch about right-winger nonsense a lot but I think this is a very dangerous road, if you read some about how corporations turn governments into banana republics, this is exactly how they do it. Propaganda about how democracy sucks, so let US take over. Not a road I see at all being good long term for the USA as a entity supposedly run by we the people (as much as possible the US has always been bought out to some degree as the balance has dictated).
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
There's nothing inherently unlibertarian about enjoying a benefit you're already forced to fund.

Unemployment is a safety net set up so people can find another job with minimal disruption. He has been sitting on his ass for a couple years jibber jabbering on anandtech about fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility and low taxes. hahahah.
 

billdotson

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2011
17
0
0
Why is it so ridiculous for some drugs to be legalized? Are you hurting anyone else but yourself if you want to do a drug? You're ruining your life, not mine. You don't need drug laws to keep people from doing drugs and neglecting their children, you just need neglect and/or abuse laws.

For people that want to ruin their own lives, why not let them? They'll quickly realize that people don't want to hire drug addicts and that society won't pay for their stupid habit.

Instead, we spend billions of dollars a year to prevent stupid people from doing stupid things.

rudeguy: Libertarianism isn't about conspiracy theories, it just so happens that some of them have crazy ideas. You might want to read up on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
It emphasizes personal liberty and a limited government. What is bad about that? The government should only be as big as it needs to be to do critical government functions. It shouldn't be everybody's parent.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Why is it so ridiculous for some drugs to be legalized? Are you hurting anyone else but yourself if you want to do a drug? You're ruining your life, not mine. You don't need drug laws to keep people from doing drugs and neglecting their children, you just need neglect and/or abuse laws.

For people that want to ruin their own lives, why not let them? They'll quickly realize that people don't want to hire drug addicts and that society won't pay for their stupid habit.

Instead, we spend billions of dollars a year to prevent stupid people from doing stupid things.

rudeguy: Libertarianism isn't about conspiracy theories, it just so happens that some of them have crazy ideas. You might want to read up on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
It emphasizes personal liberty and a limited government. What is bad about that? The government should only be as big as it needs to be to do critical government functions. It shouldn't be everybody's parent.

Don't be libertarian. Seriously for your own good. Don't expect to hold yourself accountable for your actions and you certainly cannot expect that out of others! Bad!

Welcome to the forums. :)
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Libertarianism isn't about conspiracy theories, it just so happens that some of them have crazy ideas.


LOL!
35mdxlv.gif


Keep trying comrade!
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
It would seem so. I feel sorry for you.

When I told you I felt sorry for you I was being serious. I didnt say it to make you feel bad. If you notice I never touched the subject of you living off the government well until this thread.
 

billdotson

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2011
17
0
0
If I read anyone else talking about democracy I am going to scream. The United States is NOT a democracy. How many times must this be said? The United States is a Constitutional Republic. No, that isn't a nitpick, that is huge.

“Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention... incompatible with personal security or the rights of property.”
—James Madison
“The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and ... breaks up the foundations of society.”
—Thomas Jefferson

What is the difference you say? A democracy is mob rule. The majority wins. Sucks if you're the lamb or an oppressed minority.

A constitutional republic has a Constitution (which very few people seem to care about today; if people don't like it make a new one or amend it, don't ignore it) which sets forth rules that are not to be broken under any circumstances. The United States Constitution has checks and balances and arguably the most important thing: it lays out personal liberties that nobody can take away.
A constitutional republic uses democratic procedures, but it is not democracy.
 

billdotson

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2011
17
0
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TheRedUnderURBed: I assume you didn't read the Wiki article? I didn't really expect anyone to I guess.
Read this: http://www.lp.org/platform
If you think that is full of conspiracy theories then something is truly wrong.
Some of the things you could argue against, such as the need for everyone to get a base level of education (as opposed to letting their parents decide).

Some of the things in there might not be feasible, such as the abolishment of the income tax (could be done if government waste and unnecessary expenses were trimmed to nothing, but that isn't politically feasible) or the IRS (you still have to have some organization to deal with whatever taxes you have, I guess they want Congress to do it?), but the platform seems to be the ideal to me. Abolishing the IRS and the The government's only job is to protect life, liberty and property. Anyone can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't take away the life, liberty or property of others.
You also don't need regulations for every little thing. Correctly designed incentives are much less expensive and can (sometimes) produce similar outcomes.
 

billdotson

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2011
17
0
0
JSt0rm: whoever it was that said they are a libertarian and lives off welfare because it is there is full of you-know-what. Any self respecting libertarian values personal responsibility and not being babied by the government.

For people that truly need welfare, many libertarians believe this could be done effectively through private charities. I'm not sure that would completely work, but I'd like for reality to be as close as possible to that ideal.


In general, libertarianism is actually quite broad. If you go to wikipedia and read the article there are many different subsets of it. The libertarianism I am referring to the more recent subset that is for respecting the Constitution and having a limited government. I do not subscribe to the libertarian-anarchist subset or the libertarian-socialism or any other subset. I guess it doesn't even matter if I'm called a libertarian or not, I just want the government to be as small as reasonably possible, the Constitution to be respected (including civil liberties) and for people to be responsible and not be dependent on a government as a parent figure.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Well then show us a real example of how the nonsense could work. Thing is you cannot. It's pure fantasy and hypocrisy when folks think about it based off real world problems with humans running things. It's more pathetic then the wide-eyed eyed utopian communist. Then you get into the conspiracy theories libertarians buy into? It falls right off the cliff into total batshit territory.

With the history of the human race and all the resource wars and history of serfdom the only times "pure free markets" have reared their head is after wars and disasters, full on price gouging, highway robbery and black market type crime. A good example on a bigger and more contemporary level is the financial industry nowadays acting like gangsters with only a few deregulation schemes in place.

Democracy is the answer to libertarianism, we tried the serfdom thing for our "corporate-landlord" masters and it's bullshit, people fought for freedom from being wage-slaves to our monied "lords".

You guys bitch about liberals and socialist practicing social engineering when you guys have a even more crackpot scheme then marxists. What is hilarious is the "personal liberty" bit. Good luck being free when your boss owns your ass and you are a number in a corporation. Even in bureaucratic shitholes like the USSR at least you had a tiny chance of asking the government for help, got a problem with a corporation? good luck slave, you don't have money -you have 0 power, no representation. Back to square one of serfdom. This is why everyone rolls their eyes at libertarian nonsense.

You get a golf clap for effort, but you still didn't say anything more than "batshit crazy", "can only fail", "Somalia". I have never seen you, or any other loony leftist/progressive/democrat/republican demonstrate that you have even beyond a vague idea of what Libertarianism is, or means.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
I made it as far as the bit where the narrator said that libertarians don't want to cut the FBI, CIA, ATF, or the military and closed the window. Not worth my time.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
I made it as far as the bit where the narrator said that libertarians don't want to cut the FBI, CIA, ATF, or the military and closed the window. Not worth my time.

Pretty much same here, whoever made that tripe clearly has not a clue of what he speaks.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Pretty much same here, whoever made that tripe clearly has not a clue of what he speaks.

You like all those things when it fits your agenda. Noone buys that shit for a minute.

Just more internet conspiracy theory laden douchebags acting like they are "different". Libertarians are just conservative hypocrites with a chip on their shoulder. Mostly hiding from the inept Republican party.
 
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frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Pretty much same here, whoever made that tripe clearly has not a clue of what he speaks.
The funniest part is how people have pointed out these incongruities in the comments and he still stands by his video. Whatever, he's obviously off in his own world, just let him believe what he wants I guess.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
The funniest part is how people have pointed out these incongruities in the comments and he still stands by his video. Whatever, he's obviously off in his own world, just let him believe what he wants I guess.
Well it has become fashionable lately for big government conservatives to claim to have libertarian beliefs when they don't have a clue what they are talking about. That could lead to some confusion among the ignorant on both sides - of which the video's creator is obviously one.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
You like all those things when it fits your agenda. Noone buys that shit for a minute.

Just more internet conspiracy theory laden douchebags acting like they are "different". Libertarians are just conservative hypocrites with a chip on their shoulder. Mostly hiding from the inept Republican party.

No, I don't you moron, apparently you are either too ignorant, or too stupid, or maybe you just missed my rants against the paramilitarization of civilian law enforcement, and the useless War on Drugs™, and I am not a conspiracy nut, you can read pages of my destroying our local Truther Brigade if you like. You are an ignorant little fool that likes to label, and lump people that don't agree with your distorted view, so that your simple mind can process that people could somehow not agree with you.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
No, I don't you moron, apparently you are either too ignorant, or too stupid, or maybe you just missed my rants against the paramilitarization of civilian law enforcement, and the useless War on Drugs™, and I am not a conspiracy nut.

So how should personal property be protected, or civic property for that matter?

Let's see where the Libertarian logic draws the line until we get to big government and see how little conspiracy theory your beliefs are actually based on in reality by comparing real life to your ideas of how this would work.

Libertarians cannot, as the ideology are theories from the damaged mind of a sociopath. (Ayn Rand was a whackjob who justified brutal child murder in her twisted logic like it was nothing repeatedly -no joke) Mostly of non-realistic examples so Libertarian non-realistic conclusions can be drawn about society. It's bunk.Conservatism has been hijacked by a fundamentalist new age free market cult funded by the big industry.

Never trust a snake.
 
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frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Well it has become fashionable lately for big government conservatives to claim to have libertarian beliefs when they don't have a clue what they are talking about. That could lead to some confusion among the ignorant on both sides - of which the video's creator is obviously one.
I blame the GOP for hijacking and bastardizing the "tea party" movement.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Economic collapse is greater than a mere depression.

America has never faced such a thing as our current state. The only possible solution is being pissed on by government proponents. Look at Wisconsin. They'll riot before they prevent the collapse. Which case they'll resume riots.

Our solution? Cut spending. The response? Go f' ourselves. That's not changing. No one has said how we are avoiding the inevitable.


Oh No! Watch out for those commies! They're carrying signs and screaming obscenities! Next thing you know they'll be shooting at us and kidnapping our daughters!