Libertarian ideas ever made you go..wtf?

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wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
How is our modern form of government going to solve the debt crisis? :hmm:


I guess we'll find out. In the meantime screaming, "The sky is falling", stomping our feet, and otherwise babbling irrational nonsense like a child isn't going to help. We survived the great depression and I'm pretty sure we can survive this as well.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
The US government is the oldest continuous democracy in the world and has survived for well over 200 years. If that's not flexible enough for you then I'd suggest asking a Yoga master for advice.

And Rome was all badass and cool for a few hundred years too, but they fell eventually. The US isn't at the "Greek Financial Crisis" stage yet, but it's heading that way.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
And Rome was all badass and cool for a few hundred years too, but they fell eventually. The US isn't at the "Greek Financial Crisis" stage yet, but it's heading that way.

Rome lasted for 800 years. If you want eternity you'd better pray harder.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
8,004
136
I guess we'll find out. In the meantime screaming, "The sky is falling", stomping our feet, and otherwise babbling irrational nonsense like a child isn't going to help. We survived the great depression and I'm pretty sure we can survive this as well.

Economic collapse is greater than a mere depression.

America has never faced such a thing as our current state. The only possible solution is being pissed on by government proponents. Look at Wisconsin. They'll riot before they prevent the collapse. Which case they'll resume riots.

Our solution? Cut spending. The response? Go f' ourselves. That's not changing. No one has said how we are avoiding the inevitable.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I know conservatives tend to be behind the curve socially so how about some advice from liberals who already know: radical economic theories are BS. Pulling hard off either side of the cliff leads to tyranny. A big oppressive government run by elites "owned" by workers or a big oppressive monopoly corporation type system. Both are false choices.

How about you guys come back to reality and start helping liberals run the show. Being the advocate for efficient transparent government as streamlined as it needs to be for the relative size of the job needed to be done is just common sense for conservatism. But no, you folks want to live in la la free-market fairyland thanks to corporate propaganda from think tanks and mainstream news from the very corporations themselves. Snap out of it America.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
The alternative is to have flexible government that actually responds to the needs of the people.

Except that is by definition impossible. Person A's needs is Person B's wealth, and Person B's needs are Person A's wealth. You can't have a government that meets both requirements. Government is worse than a zero sum game - it is always a net loss (except for the special interests).
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Except that is by definition impossible. Person A's needs is Person B's wealth, and Person B's needs are Person A's wealth. You can't have a government that meets both requirements. Government is worse than a zero sum game - it is always a net loss (except for the special interests).

We do have government that meets those needs, it is called voting. No you cannot get your way 100% of the time. This is part of the whole "reality" thing people have problems with libertarians about. As said in the video it's called Democracy. No maybe your guy lost, but deal with it. Vote more, or run for local office. You have that personal freedom already. wtf do you want? a society to cater to you only since you are a "libertarian"? funk that, grow up and go vote. The system is only as broke as we are apathetic and let big industry tell us THEY know whats important for us more then we do. At least this way we have a choice. Money is not a replacement for democracy, that is unless you are rich, but that is not democratic is it? It's a tyranny of the elites. Libertarianism has no answer for this along with the fact science shows people are not selfish by nature unless their is a resource shortage. Capitalism itself is literally a manipulated sustained resource shortage ponzi scheme to benefit the few with power.
Libertarianism is nothing more then a corporate PR campaign for the current elites or the wanna-bes to discredit civil society and democratic institution for further grab at power. The history of humanity itself is littered with this struggle in many forms of progression.
 
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CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
The US government is the oldest continuous democracy in the world and has survived for well over 200 years. If that's not flexible enough for you then I'd suggest asking a Yoga master for advice.
It's becoming arthritic with age. As the population grows and the government trends away from libertarianism, its failure becomes increasingly imminent. It's impossible to meet the needs of hundreds of millions of people with a single entity, and a fool's errand to try. No entity with enough power to do so could possibly be flexible enough to succeed.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
It's becoming arthritic with age.

It's typical of a welfare state (which all western nations are) to go through booms and bust periods when the bureaucracy inevitably expands to fullfill the expanding bureaucracy. The other big problem is when the capitalist side of western governments get too infiltrated by industry, then the pitchforks come out and the elites get overthrown and put back into place. These cycles are the result of having a mixed market system. Rational debate and a informed democratic public is the only answer to transparent efficient government. There is no choice of pulling hard to either side. History shows it does not work and only speeds up the cycle to a crash.

Creating a group of wealthy individuals buying up democracy is as short-sighted as creating a huge bureaucracy, both are inefficient and prone to top-heaviness and not able to adapt to the needs of the people themselves that they are supposed to be serving.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
The US government is the oldest continuous democracy in the world and has survived for well over 200 years. If that's not flexible enough for you then I'd suggest asking a Yoga master for advice.

Not true:

The world's oldest continuous Democracy is Iceland, it has had a legislative assembly since 930 AD.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Whats even more funny is this guy thinks he knows what a libertarian is. He has no idea! Wants to keep law enforcement and military spending as it is? What has this guy been smoking? He is clearly misinformed and has based his opinion on inaccurate information. This guy is sad.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
RedInHisHead has some amusing ideas about the viability of big government. It's funny how they call us "libertopians" and other childish things, but it's their dreams of government by the people that seem to count on the existence of unicorns and fairy dust to work properly.

But if only we listened to the Democrats and made it a single party system based on their dreams of utopia!!!!
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Libertarian policies have been in practice for thousands of years. Look at the third world for current examples.

A tribal society is basically your libertopia. Look how well those work out...
Tribal society is more often political liberalism in action. In theory almost every resource is owned by the tribe; in reality a small number of very power people make all the decisions and take the lion's share of the wealth.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
RedInHisHead has some amusing ideas about the viability of big government. It's funny how they call us "libertopians" and other childish things, but it's their dreams of government by the people that seem to count on the existence of unicorns and fairy dust to work properly.

But if only we listened to the Democrats and made it a single party system based on their dreams of utopia!!!!

You obviously have no clue what I was trying to say once again, btw I hope you enjoyed the video, it's literally custom tailored made for hypocrites as yourself.

Enjoying the fruits of the welfare state today? Did your check come in efficiently and on time? Maybe you should write the bueracracy that supports your family to thank them for existing comrade.

Some evil commie liberal fought so you could eat today off those checks. But we still wouldn't leave a comrade out in the cold, regardless of your tantrum throwing ideas of being owed everything you want in life. But, it is a free country and even douchebags are entitled to their opinions, but then so can we laugh our asses off at your blatant hypocrisy.

Whats so sad is you think you are going against the tide like some kind of rebel, you are a tool of a mass-media corporate PR campaign like a braindead wageslave apologizing for his mastah who knows best. Good job, keep sucking up to the elites while you think you are a rebel. You are more dense then the kids with the Che shirts.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
RedInHisHead has some amusing ideas about the viability of big government. It's funny how they call us "libertopians" and other childish things, but it's their dreams of government by the people that seem to count on the existence of unicorns and fairy dust to work properly.

But if only we listened to the Democrats and made it a single party system based on their dreams of utopia!!!!

You think you are a libertarian?!?!?! wtf?!?! hahahahaha.

You sit on your couch all day on the government dole. Thats not a libertarian. That would be like me saying people shouldn't pirate and then going home and bit torrenting the world.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
So you're just making stuff up again, and calling it "science". Got it.

I would love to hear your opinion on how we got here if we are not a collectivist species by nature that will war over shortages. Maybe god sent magic sperm a few thousand years ago and the human race are different then us? Libertarian philosophy is from a whacked bunch of sociopaths, go figure you guys dispute basic human nature.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
We do have government that meets those needs, it is called voting. No you cannot get your way 100% of the time. This is part of the whole "reality" thing people have problems with libertarians about. As said in the video it's called Democracy. No maybe your guy lost, but deal with it. Vote more, or run for local office. You have that personal freedom already. wtf do you want? a society to cater to you only since you are a "libertarian"? funk that, grow up and go vote. The system is only as broke as we are apathetic and let big industry tell us THEY know whats important for us more then we do. At least this way we have a choice. Money is not a replacement for democracy, that is unless you are rich, but that is not democratic is it? It's a tyranny of the elites. Libertarianism has no answer for this along with the fact science shows people are not selfish by nature unless their is a resource shortage. Capitalism itself is literally a manipulated sustained resource shortage ponzi scheme to benefit the few with power.
Libertarianism is nothing more then a corporate PR campaign for the current elites or the wanna-bes to discredit civil society and democratic institution for further grab at power. The history of humanity itself is littered with this struggle in many forms of progression.

Red you are just dumb as hell.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Red you are just dumb as hell.

Amazing comeback, you all have given some bumper sticker phrase about personal liberty from a bunch of childish minded folks or call someone dumb. Anyhow, I await any throwdowns from cappy heavy hitters. You guys are just not delivering today. Anyone want to try stepping out of glenn beck la la land?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
This you TheRedUnderURBed?

redunderyourbed.png
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
This you TheRedUnderURBed?

*snip* overweight dude with silly facial hair

Meh, I work out and would not wear dollar store gold rimmed shades. Gold is not my thing. Obviously. :D

33lzi45.jpg
Most people find this cartoon to be spot on likeness of my rl persona.
 
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QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Why would you post his picture without his permission, that is just a lame gesture regardless.