Liberals continue to hack away at parental rights

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
The Boundaries of Parental Authority:
A Response to Rob Reich of Stanford University
By Thomas W. Washburne, J.D.

From August 30 to September 2, 2001, the American Political Science Association held its annual meeting in San Francisco, California. Rob Reich, of the Department of Political Science at Stanford University, presented a paper at this meeting which has captured the attention of many home schooling families, including members of the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA).

Mr. Reich's report was entitled Testing the Boundaries of Parental Authority Over Education: The Case of Homeschooling.1 The paper is a precursor to a book by Reich to be entitled Bridging Liberalism and Multiculturalism in Education, which the University of Chicago Press is anticipated to publish in 2002.2 In his paper, Reich traces the rise of home education, the interests in education held by the government, the parent, and the child, and sets forth his suggestions for balancing these interests. These suggestions lead Reich to conclude that "while the state should not ban homeschooling it must nevertheless regulate its practice with vigilance."3

Reich's proposed regulations include "periodic assessments that would measure their [home schoolers] success in examining and reflecting upon diverse worldviews."4 These regulations are in furtherance of Reich's view that:

"Children are owed as a matter of justice the capacity to choose to lead lives--adopt values and beliefs, pursue an occupation, endorse new traditions--that are different from those of their parents. Because the child cannot him or herself ensure the acquisition of such capacities and the parents may be opposed to such acquisition, the state must ensure it for them. The state must guarantee that children are educated for minimal autonomy."5

The regulation of home education by the government is limited by the fact that parents have a fundamental right to direct the upbringing of their children which is protected by the Constitution. Accordingly, unless the state can show some compelling interest in regulating the parent's involvement in education, the parent's views are heeded.

Thus we see the implications, indeed danger, of Reich's ideas for home education. For Reich, while recognizing that there can be debate on the topic, essentially concedes that the state's interest in education does not lend itself to regulating home education. It is not Reich's contention that parental rights should be overridden because the state's compelling interest in education is not being fulfilled. Reich rather sets forth the argument that children have their own interests in education, which are different from both the parent's and the state's. It is this interest, the child's, which in Reich's view justifies limiting parental rights.

At first glance, Reich's arguments appear persuasive. We cannot deny that children have significant rights which the state protects. But the subject is more complex than what Reich is setting forth. First and foremost, children are not adults and by their very nature are in a class of their own. In examining what rights children enjoy, and what rights they do not, a distinction may be drawn between rights of children for protection and rights of children to a choice.6

Rights of protection involve the right to life, freedom from bodily harm, etc. All people, by being people, are entitled to some liberty in their person. Children are no exception. Rights of choice are legal rights that permit persons to make "affirmative choices of binding consequence. Rights of choice includes such rights as voting, marrying, exercising religious preference, and choosing whether to seek education."7 These rights, however, are not extended to all. These are adult rights and children are not adults. It is in the consideration of rights of choice that Reich's arguments begin to lose their persuasion.

Yes, the law protects children. But law cannot give them something which, being children, they do not have by nature the ability to exercise. The right to autonomy, to view the world as you want to, is only properly enjoyed by adults. While prudent parenting includes efforts to inform and help children understand the world about them, responsible parenting also demands that children be taught right from wrong.

The real root of the problem home education presents to Reich is that home educators have removed themselves from America's educational system and its underlying values. Their children are beyond the reach of the elite and the predominate world view of relativism or secular humanism. As home schooling continues to grow and prosper, this will become increasingly troublesome to the educational establishment. But more than being beyond the intellectual elite, the children of home educators are largely beyond the reach of the state. It will take novel legal theories to break this constitutional protection. And it is here that Reich's theories are most concerning, indeed dangerous.

Link

The radical secularlists just hate any attempt to interfere with their attempts to brainwash children.
 

inphlict

Banned
Jan 15, 2005
39
0
0
I agree with this, we should be able to teach our children what we want not what the government wants.
 

inphlict

Banned
Jan 15, 2005
39
0
0
Omish are kind people, but I could never live with out electricity and all the other stuff.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: inphlict
Omish are kind people, but I could never live with out electricity and all the other stuff.

if you understood ripronin and some of his bizarre thinking and fascination with rape, abortion, killing, keeping your kids by ball and chain, then you'd understand. He's a closeted Amish
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: inphlict
Omish are kind people, but I could never live with out electricity and all the other stuff.

if you understood ripronin and some of his bizarre thinking and fascination with rape, abortion, killing, keeping your kids by ball and chain, then you'd understand. He's a closeted Amish

Personally, I think the Amish live a very admirable life. Your snide disprect for their way of life is unsurprising.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,553
6,624
136
Personally I think it's a bit sad that fewer kids go to school, not as much for what is teached, but because of the lack of social life a school can give. One of the things that bind a nation together is also some sort of common values and background.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: inphlict
Omish are kind people, but I could never live with out electricity and all the other stuff.

if you understood ripronin and some of his bizarre thinking and fascination with rape, abortion, killing, keeping your kids by ball and chain, then you'd understand. He's a closeted Amish

Personally, I think the Amish live a very admirable life. Your snide disprect for their way of life is unsurprising.

Oh yes, they're a very sound mind, body and soul people indeed. Where do we sign up?
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: biostud
Personally I think it's a bit sad that fewer kids go to school, not as much for what is teached, but because of the lack of social life a school can give. One of the things that bind a nation together is also some sort of common values and background.

Reich is pretty good at spinning, I listen to his bits on NPR & marvel @ his ability to polarize issues.

 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,553
6,624
136
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: biostud
Personally I think it's a bit sad that fewer kids go to school, not as much for what is teached, but because of the lack of social life a school can give. One of the things that bind a nation together is also some sort of common values and background.

Reich is pretty good at spinning, I listen to his bits on NPR & marvel @ his ability to polarize issues.


I can't say I know much, if anything of the US school system.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: inphlict
Omish are kind people, but I could never live with out electricity and all the other stuff.

if you understood ripronin and some of his bizarre thinking and fascination with rape, abortion, killing, keeping your kids by ball and chain, then you'd understand. He's a closeted Amish

Personally, I think the Amish live a very admirable life. Your snide disprect for their way of life is unsurprising.

Oh yes, they're a very sound mind, body and soul people indeed. Where do we sign up?
:roll:

Hey, look what public education has to offer!

Or is this your idea of living close to nature? :D
 

dgevert

Senior member
Dec 6, 2004
362
0
0
Riprorin wants parents to be able to shelter their children from knowledge, so that they don't receive any information that contradicts their precious Christian worldview. Is this how fragile their faith really is, that they are so afraid of facts?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: dgevert
Riprorin wants parents to be able to shelter their children from knowledge, so that they don't receive any information that contradicts their precious Christian worldview. Is this how fragile their faith really is, that they are so afraid of facts?

For being a member for about 40 days, you sure have a lot of knowledge about what everyone wants and knows.

Frankly, homeschooling is more than (and often totally separate from) a religious issue. The ignorance about homeschooling is shown daily here, mostly by "intellecutal liberals" such as yourself.
 

His Lord Uberdude

Senior member
Nov 15, 2004
532
0
0
Originally posted by: dgevert
Riprorin wants parents to be able to shelter their children from knowledge, so that they don't receive any information that contradicts their precious Christian worldview. Is this how fragile their faith really is, that they are so afraid of facts?

We're not afraid of facts, we just teach what we believe to be right. We don't agree with everything that is taught in public schools, and not everything that's taught in public schools is the gospel truth.
 

dgevert

Senior member
Dec 6, 2004
362
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: dgevert
Riprorin wants parents to be able to shelter their children from knowledge, so that they don't receive any information that contradicts their precious Christian worldview. Is this how fragile their faith really is, that they are so afraid of facts?

For being a member for about 40 days, you sure have a lot of knowledge about what everyone wants and knows.

Frankly, homeschooling is more than (and often totally separate from) a religious issue. The ignorance about homeschooling is shown daily here, mostly by "intellecutal liberals" such as yourself.

I didn't say a thing about homeschooling...
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: dgevert
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: dgevert
Riprorin wants parents to be able to shelter their children from knowledge, so that they don't receive any information that contradicts their precious Christian worldview. Is this how fragile their faith really is, that they are so afraid of facts?

For being a member for about 40 days, you sure have a lot of knowledge about what everyone wants and knows.

Frankly, homeschooling is more than (and often totally separate from) a religious issue. The ignorance about homeschooling is shown daily here, mostly by "intellecutal liberals" such as yourself.

I didn't say a thing about homeschooling...

I see, so you were being entirely off-topic and just attacking Rip and christians? Because that is what this thread topic is about, you realize...homeschooling...
 

dgevert

Senior member
Dec 6, 2004
362
0
0
Originally posted by: His Lord Uberdude
Originally posted by: dgevert
Riprorin wants parents to be able to shelter their children from knowledge, so that they don't receive any information that contradicts their precious Christian worldview. Is this how fragile their faith really is, that they are so afraid of facts?

We're not afraid of facts, we just teach what we believe to be right. We don't agree with everything that is taught in public schools, and not everything that's taught in public schools is the gospel truth.

You're wrong, but whatever. That's not the issue here. The issue is that Riprorin wants more than to be able to teach his kids stuff outside of school. He wants everyone else to be taught the same things he believes in. He wants to use the public education system to force his religion on everyone. He wants to use it, ironically, as a tool to brainwash children before they come to the age where they can think for themselves.
 

dgevert

Senior member
Dec 6, 2004
362
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
I see, so you were being entirely off-topic and just attacking Rip and christians? Because that is what this thread topic is about, you realize...homeschooling...

It's also about Riprorin's insistence that public education equates to brainwashing, whereas in reality, he's just pissed it interferes with Christian brainwashing.

I'm not near stupid enough to think that Riprorin is representative of Christianity. Most Christians are far more reasonable and nowhere near as dense.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Riprorin
The Boundaries of Parental Authority:
A Response to Rob Reich of Stanford University
By Thomas W. Washburne, J.D.

From August 30 to September 2, 2001, the American Political Science Association held its annual meeting in San Francisco, California. Rob Reich, of the Department of Political Science at Stanford University, presented a paper at this meeting which has captured the attention of many home schooling families, including members of the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA).

Mr. Reich's report was entitled Testing the Boundaries of Parental Authority Over Education: The Case of Homeschooling.1 The paper is a precursor to a book by Reich to be entitled Bridging Liberalism and Multiculturalism in Education, which the University of Chicago Press is anticipated to publish in 2002.2 In his paper, Reich traces the rise of home education, the interests in education held by the government, the parent, and the child, and sets forth his suggestions for balancing these interests. These suggestions lead Reich to conclude that "while the state should not ban homeschooling it must nevertheless regulate its practice with vigilance."3

Reich's proposed regulations include "periodic assessments that would measure their [home schoolers] success in examining and reflecting upon diverse worldviews."4 These regulations are in furtherance of Reich's view that:

"Children are owed as a matter of justice the capacity to choose to lead lives--adopt values and beliefs, pursue an occupation, endorse new traditions--that are different from those of their parents. Because the child cannot him or herself ensure the acquisition of such capacities and the parents may be opposed to such acquisition, the state must ensure it for them. The state must guarantee that children are educated for minimal autonomy."5

The regulation of home education by the government is limited by the fact that parents have a fundamental right to direct the upbringing of their children which is protected by the Constitution. Accordingly, unless the state can show some compelling interest in regulating the parent's involvement in education, the parent's views are heeded.

Thus we see the implications, indeed danger, of Reich's ideas for home education. For Reich, while recognizing that there can be debate on the topic, essentially concedes that the state's interest in education does not lend itself to regulating home education. It is not Reich's contention that parental rights should be overridden because the state's compelling interest in education is not being fulfilled. Reich rather sets forth the argument that children have their own interests in education, which are different from both the parent's and the state's. It is this interest, the child's, which in Reich's view justifies limiting parental rights.

At first glance, Reich's arguments appear persuasive. We cannot deny that children have significant rights which the state protects. But the subject is more complex than what Reich is setting forth. First and foremost, children are not adults and by their very nature are in a class of their own. In examining what rights children enjoy, and what rights they do not, a distinction may be drawn between rights of children for protection and rights of children to a choice.6

Rights of protection involve the right to life, freedom from bodily harm, etc. All people, by being people, are entitled to some liberty in their person. Children are no exception. Rights of choice are legal rights that permit persons to make "affirmative choices of binding consequence. Rights of choice includes such rights as voting, marrying, exercising religious preference, and choosing whether to seek education."7 These rights, however, are not extended to all. These are adult rights and children are not adults. It is in the consideration of rights of choice that Reich's arguments begin to lose their persuasion.

Yes, the law protects children. But law cannot give them something which, being children, they do not have by nature the ability to exercise. The right to autonomy, to view the world as you want to, is only properly enjoyed by adults. While prudent parenting includes efforts to inform and help children understand the world about them, responsible parenting also demands that children be taught right from wrong.

The real root of the problem home education presents to Reich is that home educators have removed themselves from America's educational system and its underlying values. Their children are beyond the reach of the elite and the predominate world view of relativism or secular humanism. As home schooling continues to grow and prosper, this will become increasingly troublesome to the educational establishment. But more than being beyond the intellectual elite, the children of home educators are largely beyond the reach of the state. It will take novel legal theories to break this constitutional protection. And it is here that Reich's theories are most concerning, indeed dangerous.

Link

The radical secularlists just hate any attempt to interfere with their attempts to brainwash children.

And people wonder why I call the schools - the Government school system...

CsG
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Csg, you and riprorin are like two peas in a pod. In other news, it seems hard to believe liberals could be brainwashing America when all branches of government and media are in the hands of the decepticons.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
sounds like two ppl fighting over the right to brainwash the children in their own image. it's all brainwashing, and programming, whether it's secular, or religious.