Liberals are generally "idealists," while conservatives are generally "pragmatists."

[Random Variable]

Do you agree or disagree? And why?

 

[Maleficus]

ppl are crazy.

 

[Random Variable]

<< ppl are crazy. >>


ummm....OK

 

[atrowe]

Liberals are generally "dirty, tree-hugging hippies", while conservatives are generally "responsible, upstanding members of society."

 

[Random Variable]

<< Liberals are generally "dirty, tree-hugging hippies", while conservatives are generally "responsible, upstanding members of society." >>


No comment. :Q

 

[bizmark]

<< Liberals are generally "idealists," while conservatives are generally "pragmatists." >>



But what if your ideal is pragmatism?

 

[Siddhartha]

Generalizations generally are not accurate.

 

[Random Variable]

<<

<< Liberals are generally "idealists," while conservatives are generally "pragmatists." >>



But what if your ideal is pragmatism? >>


Then you would be a pragmatist to begin with (I think ).

 

[Random Variable]

<< Generalizations generally are not accurate. >>


Then what do the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean? Do they mean absolutely nothing?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Perhaps it's a little different--

Idealists are liberal and pragmatists are conservative.

Their political tendencies reflect their inherent nature. Subtle, but real, difference.

 

[Random Variable]

I ask this question because "conservative philosophy" (Hobbes, Hume, etc.) seems to be rooted in pragmatism; while "liberal philosophy" (Kant, Hegel, etc.) seems to be rooted in idealism.

 

[Pennstate]

pragmatists are MODERATES. They are concerned with the END than with the MEANS. I.E. John McCain. He sees a problem with the way our political campaigns are being finance. Being pragmatic, he went to whoever supported his bill. A conservative, as defined as a contrast to liberals, will not do that.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

pragmatists are MODERATES. They are concerned with the END than with the MEANS. I.E. John McCain. He sees a problem with the way our political campaigns are being finance. Being pragmatic, he went to whoever supported his bill. A conservative, as defined as a contrast to liberals, will not do that.

Agreed.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The problem is that there is no absolute conservative or liberal or moderate for that matter. I listen to National Public Radio at times, and often the broadcasters and guests see themselves as moderate when I see them out in left field. Conversely, I see many who call themselves moderate who I consider on the right. Why? Because MY perspectives differ from theirs. I know many who consider McCain a liberal in Republican clothing and not a moderate. Of course they are conservative and define themselves publicly that way. I believe I am conservative leaning towards moderate, because I embrace some ideas that liberals put forth, but not not always for the same reason. It seems a good idea is a good idea, no matter what it's source. How I feel or think about a particular issue depends on that issue and not a party line. For example I voted for Bush. Now I will say that I am glad I did in the light of recent history, but I do have some problems with policies. Just the name Patriot Act gets me going, because by the title, you support it (patriot) or do not (Commie, traitor, etc) AND I DO have some problems with it. Not entirely though, but in part. LIkewise I despised Clinton for a number of reasons, yet I am not out for blood, and have to give the devil his due when appropriate. Anyway before I ramble further, that's my 1-1/2 cents worth.

 

[Red Dawn]

atrowe


<< Liberals are generally "dirty, tree-hugging hippies", while conservatives are generally "responsible, upstanding members of society." >>

So you are a Liberal I take it.

 

[Siddhartha]

"Then what do the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean? Do they mean absolutely nothing? "

liberal noun (1820)
: a person who is liberal: as
a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
b cap : a member or supporter of a liberal political party
c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism esp. in individual rights

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved.

conservative noun (1831)
1 a : an adherent or advocate of political conservatism
b cap : a member or supporter of a conservative political party
2 a : one who adheres to traditional methods or views
b : a cautious or discreet person

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved.

 

[Maetryx]

I would argue that both (all) are idealists and pragmatists. They simply have different ideals and therefore different solutions. I don't think anyone wants to solve their perceived problems in a way that is slow and inefficient (anti-pragmatic).

I'm really, really, really conservative (Zoolander voice), but I know that the conservatives can get lost in the idealism of "the way things should be in the first place" instead of trying to solve the problem the way it is now and in reality. Think Laura Schlessinger for example. She just tells people what they should have done in the first place. She doesn't help people at all. Of *course* she's right, but it still doesn't help having someone else tell you what you already know because you've already messed up. That's not a solution.

Liberals kind of do the opposite, in my opinion. They go looking for injustices and go around solving "problems" that are really not problems at all. Just the way things are.

 

[glen]

I would have said the exact opposite.

 

[ElFenix]

mccain is generally considered a liberal republican. clinton, in an earlier day, would have been a liberal republican as well. teddy roosevelt, probably the greatest republican president ever to survive his term, was quite liberal for mainstream society in his day, being a trust-buster and all. yet he was very much a realist in his foreign policy outlook, rather than liberal as wilson was. wilson was rather conservative in his domestic policy.

go figure.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< mccain is generally considered a liberal republican. >>



I am amazed that people still clutch to this idea (God knows he is widely characterized this way by the media, who adore him, so I am not picking on you for calling him this). Other than campaign finance reform he is staunchly conservative on nearly every major issue, and has one of the most conservative voting records in the Senate.

 

[GasX]

Liberals generally feel that business owners and executives are evil and deserve to be punished and that murderers and rapists deserve workout facilities and cable tv.

Conservatives believe that promoting business and punishing criminals improves society.

 

[Random Variable]

I should have mentioned Hobbes, Hume, Kant, etc. in my original post because I didn't want this thread to just be about politicians in Washington. Oh well.

 

[Torghn]

See my sig.

 

[ElFenix]

<< Other than campaign finance reform >>

thats a really big issue though, which pushes him pretty far away from the republican party's mainstream.


anyone ever see the footage of him jumping out of the skyhawk hit by the zuni rocket that started the fire aboard the uss forrestal during the vietnam war?

 

[smp]

solving "problems" that are really not problems at all. Just the way things are.

"just the way things are"
Nothing upsets me as much as that phrase, that has to be the most narrow minded, indoctrinated view I've ever heard. You think that all the enslaved africans and their decendants had that view? I'm sure that maybe some did, but you can see how it's neither progressive, productive or logical.

The whole notion of left and right politics is outdated and irrelevant. I live in Canada. I have heard Americans call this country a socialist experiment or whatnot. It scares me to think that my government could be considered "left". The neo-liberals rule here and all they are is a bunch of rich, white capitalists that support the rich, white, capitalist ideology. I'm sure that this is not a scarey concept to most people here. If I have to generalize I would say that most ppl on this board are in support of the rich, white, capitalist ideology. I guess that's why I don't hang out in OT much.

Common sense is constructed, it's not innate. ie, common sense is just ideology, common sense is culturally defined. What is culture, why do you like anything that you like, or dislike what you dislike? Constructivism vs. essentialism. Why do you like blondes with blue eyes, big tits and thighs? Is it an essential, innate genetic feature? Or is it socially/environmentally constructed? Old questions sure, so what is the nature of politics then?