media is working for money. it happens that the government is very corporation-friendly right now...and there are only about 10 (at most) companies in charge of most media outlets.
edit: i think trent is being a dick about how much he is offended by mtv. while im no fan i find it obnoxious to suggest that he has such convictions...and yet was willing to play for them before they denied their desires.
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
It is not the government that is stopping this, but MTV. They are stopping it because their advertisers might not like it, and may pull their ads. NIN can still play in front of an image of GWB, just not on MTV. This has nothing to do with the 1st Amendment.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
NIN's song 'The Hand That Feeds' is anti government. It was a facetious use of Bush's image. Just like the song 'Head Like A Hole' is all about Jerry Falwell.
For referance:
The Hand That Feeds
You're keeping in step
In the line
Got your chin held high and you feel just fine
Because you do
What you're told
But inside your heart it is black and it's hollow and it's cold
Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?
What if this whole crusade's
A charade
And behind it all there's a price to be paid
For the blood
On which we dine
Justified in the name of the holy and the divine
Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?
So naive
I keep holding on to what I want to believe
I can see
But I keep holding on and on and on and on
Will you bite the hand that feeds you?
Will you stay down on your knees? [8X]
For referance:
The Hand That Feeds
You're keeping in step
In the line
Got your chin held high and you feel just fine
Because you do
What you're told
But inside your heart it is black and it's hollow and it's cold
Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?
What if this whole crusade's
A charade
And behind it all there's a price to be paid
For the blood
On which we dine
Justified in the name of the holy and the divine
Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?
So naive
I keep holding on to what I want to believe
I can see
But I keep holding on and on and on and on
Will you bite the hand that feeds you?
Will you stay down on your knees? [8X]
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Shh.... logic isn't welcome in this forum...
CsG
Too bad he's not using logic, but a red herring. arsbanned said nothing about the 1st Amendment. he just said that suppression of free speech is unamerican. he's talking about principle, not the law.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Shh.... logic isn't welcome in this forum...
CsG
Too bad he's not using logic, but a red herring. arsbanned said nothing about the 1st Amendment. he just said that suppression of free speech is unamerican. he's talking about principle, not the law.
It is not a red herring. "free speech" is never an all encompassing principle - meaning that you can't expect others to air your free speech if they don't want to. They are exercising their rights to decide what speech they want to air. Claiming that this is a principle of free-speech violation only shows how out of whack some people are when it comes to "free speech". NIN has every right to do it on their dime but "free speech"(principle or law) does not entitle them to other people's free-speech dime.
CsG
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Shh.... logic isn't welcome in this forum...
CsG
Too bad he's not using logic, but a red herring. arsbanned said nothing about the 1st Amendment. he just said that suppression of free speech is unamerican. he's talking about principle, not the law.
It is not a red herring. "free speech" is never an all encompassing principle - meaning that you can't expect others to air your free speech if they don't want to. They are exercising their rights to decide what speech they want to air. Claiming that this is a principle of free-speech violation only shows how out of whack some people are when it comes to "free speech". NIN has every right to do it on their dime but "free speech"(principle or law) does not entitle them to other people's free-speech dime.
CsG
Funny, then why do I hear conservatives so up in arms over a certain student at a Jesuit University?
Seems like it's a double standard you're creating here. Haha, I was gonna give you a link to the post, but then, you're the one who created it!
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=52&threadid=1590063&enterthread=y
The Jesuit University as a private organization has just as much a right to free speech as MTV.
CsG, it's not the expectation, what is legal, that we're talking about. The only consistency we can find between these two cases is what we believe to be right and wrong.
Which is why I think what MTV is doing is wrong, as well as what the Jesuit Uni is doing is wrong (yes, I actually changed my mind after reading the kid's paper).
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Shh.... logic isn't welcome in this forum...
CsG
Too bad he's not using logic, but a red herring. arsbanned said nothing about the 1st Amendment. he just said that suppression of free speech is unamerican. he's talking about principle, not the law.
Shhh, clear thinking and understanding is not welcome by cad.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Shh.... logic isn't welcome in this forum...
CsG
Too bad he's not using logic, but a red herring. arsbanned said nothing about the 1st Amendment. he just said that suppression of free speech is unamerican. he's talking about principle, not the law.
It is not a red herring. "free speech" is never an all encompassing principle - meaning that you can't expect others to air your free speech if they don't want to. They are exercising their rights to decide what speech they want to air. Claiming that this is a principle of free-speech violation only shows how out of whack some people are when it comes to "free speech". NIN has every right to do it on their dime but "free speech"(principle or law) does not entitle them to other people's free-speech dime.
CsG
Funny, then why do I hear conservatives so up in arms over a certain student at a Jesuit University?
Seems like it's a double standard you're creating here. Haha, I was gonna give you a link to the post, but then, you're the one who created it!
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=52&threadid=1590063&enterthread=y
The Jesuit University as a private organization has just as much a right to free speech as MTV.
CsG, it's not the expectation, what is legal, that we're talking about. The only consistency we can find between these two cases is what we believe to be right and wrong.
Which is why I think what MTV is doing is wrong, as well as what the Jesuit Uni is doing is wrong (yes, I actually changed my mind after reading the kid's paper).
Wow, talk about apples and oranges. One is a place of "higher learning" and one is an entertainment outlet. But hey, if you think they are the same, then there is no reasoning with you. ...can't reason with the unreasonable...but I'll give you one more chance...
"free speech" is NOT an all encompassing(entitling) principle. In business(which is what MTV is) your "speech" is not their responsibility to air or conform to. They have their own "speech" and shouldn't be forced by your so-called "principle" of "free speech" just because you think they should. However, a college shouldn't be forced to air speech by student, but to remove them due to an opinion they hold is abhorrent. MTV has not kicked NIN off their channel either, which if you comparison was even close would still prove the two situations dissimilar.
But hey, you keep thinking that everyone else MUST cater to your "free speech" if you wish :roll:
CsG
They havent had a decent hit in over 10 years.
Chances are MTV wanted to drop them because people will tune into lifetime or something during their song.
Chances are MTV wanted to drop them because people will tune into lifetime or something during their song.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
The media has evolved into a corporate entity that is out for its own profit margin and nothing more...sometimes it is economically advantageous for a media outlet to support a particular political ideology...other times it is not.
Complaints of media bias are usually more a case of what will attract viewers.
As for Nine Inch Nails, typical that the band would choose to perform in front of an image of President Bush without mention of the message they intended to communicate...MTV probably saw it as a cheap publicity stunt, with Trent Reznor emerging as a crusader for free speech.
If anything, it was a smart marketing ploy on Reznor's part, although it surprises me considering that he is an articulate speaker, quite intelligent, but rarely so overtly political.
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: totalcommand
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Shh.... logic isn't welcome in this forum...
CsG
Too bad he's not using logic, but a red herring. arsbanned said nothing about the 1st Amendment. he just said that suppression of free speech is unamerican. he's talking about principle, not the law.
It is not a red herring. "free speech" is never an all encompassing principle - meaning that you can't expect others to air your free speech if they don't want to. They are exercising their rights to decide what speech they want to air. Claiming that this is a principle of free-speech violation only shows how out of whack some people are when it comes to "free speech". NIN has every right to do it on their dime but "free speech"(principle or law) does not entitle them to other people's free-speech dime.
CsG
Funny, then why do I hear conservatives so up in arms over a certain student at a Jesuit University?
Seems like it's a double standard you're creating here. Haha, I was gonna give you a link to the post, but then, you're the one who created it!
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=52&threadid=1590063&enterthread=y
The Jesuit University as a private organization has just as much a right to free speech as MTV.
CsG, it's not the expectation, what is legal, that we're talking about. The only consistency we can find between these two cases is what we believe to be right and wrong.
Which is why I think what MTV is doing is wrong, as well as what the Jesuit Uni is doing is wrong (yes, I actually changed my mind after reading the kid's paper).
Wow, talk about apples and oranges. One is a place of "higher learning" and one is an entertainment outlet. But hey, if you think they are the same, then there is no reasoning with you. ...can't reason with the unreasonable...but I'll give you one more chance...
"free speech" is NOT an all encompassing(entitling) principle. In business(which is what MTV is) your "speech" is not their responsibility to air or conform to. They have their own "speech" and shouldn't be forced by your so-called "principle" of "free speech" just because you think they should. However, a college shouldn't be forced to air speech by student, but to remove them due to an opinion they hold is abhorrent. MTV has not kicked NIN off their channel either, which if you comparison was even close would still prove the two situations dissimilar.
But hey, you keep thinking that everyone else MUST cater to your "free speech" if you wish :roll:
CsG
They are both private organizations, and are entitled to their to express their right of free speech in whatever way they want. For the university, they can express their right by removing this student and his right to free speech. Call it explusion. For MTV, they can express their right by not airing NIN. Whether they SHOULD, however, is a completely different matter than whether they CAN. Neither SHOULD, in my opinion.
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