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liberal legislating from the bench: CA judge denies foster teen early Marines enlistment

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,670
0
0
LA Daily News

Anti-war judge rejects foster teen's bid to join military
By Dana Bartholomew, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/07/2008 07:16:45 AM PST

SIMI VALLEY - Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

But last fall, a Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner dashed the foster teen's hopes of early enlistment for Marine sniper duty, plus a potential $10,000 signing bonus.

In denying the Royal High School student delayed entry into the Marine Corps, Children's Court Commissioner Marilyn Mackel reportedly told Sage and a recruiter that she didn't approve of the Iraq war, didn't trust recruiters and didn't support the military.

"The judge said she didn't support the Iraq war for any reason why we're over there," said Marine recruiter Sgt. Guillermo Medrano of the Simi Valley USMC recruiting office.

"She just said all recruiters were the same - that they `all tap dance and tell me what I want to hear.' She said she didn't want him to fight in it."

Sage, 17, said he begged for Mackel's permission.

"Foster children shouldn't be denied (an) ability to enlist in the service just because they're foster kids," he said. "Foster kids shouldn't have to go to court to gain approval to serve one's country."

Mackel, a juvenile dependency commissioner at the Children's Court in Monterey Park, declined through a clerk to speak about any court case or comments she may have made in court.

Transcripts of juvenile court hearings require a special release from a judge. Court

officials said a transcript of the Sage hearing, if released, would not be available for a week or more.
After Sage submitted a winning entry to the lawmaker's Write a Bill Challenge, Assemblyman Cameron Smyth introduced legislation last month that would allow foster teens to enlist in the service without express permission from a judge.

Instead, AB2238 would allow foster children 17 or older to sign up with the consent of a foster parent or social worker.

"Here is one impressive young man who somehow made it through the challenge of the foster system, had a clear sense of a career path and was denied that opportunity by a judge basically because of her personal bias," said Smyth, R-Santa Clarita, who will honor Sage today at a Royal High assembly.

"I find that to be a horrific abuse of her power."
This is exactly why we need conservative judges who interpret the law instead of liberal judges who legislate from the bench.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
"Interpreting the law" has nothing to do with political position, conservative judges overstep their authority and ignore their obligations just as often as their liberal counterparts. Not to mention that conservatives have had far more time to appoint "conservatives judges" than liberals have had to appoint "liberal judges", yet the liberal judge complaints continue unabated. Could it be that it's just a convenient way to attack the entire judicial branch, which is, let's face it, not a popular concept among certain conservatives.

But in any case, this story smells like there is something else going on. Transcripts from the case aren't available, we only have the word of the Marine recruiter as to why the court commissioner (who is not a judge, as far as I know) wouldn't let the kid enlist. Even if she said she didn't approve of the war and all that, that doesn't mean that's why she ruled the way she did. This smells like people with a political agenda trying to make a stink, there isn't enough information here for a reasonable person to pass judgement on the court one way or the other.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
My biggest problem here is that somebody watched full metal jacket and wanted to join the military. What do I get for 10 dolla? Anyting, you want, including an IED trauma.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,086
493
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
"Interpreting the law" has nothing to do with political position, conservative judges overstep their authority and ignore their obligations just as often as their liberal counterparts. Not to mention that conservatives have had far more time to appoint "conservatives judges" than liberals have had to appoint "liberal judges", yet the liberal judge complaints continue unabated. Could it be that it's just a convenient way to attack the entire judicial branch, which is, let's face it, not a popular concept among certain conservatives.

But in any case, this story smells like there is something else going on. Transcripts from the case aren't available, we only have the word of the Marine recruiter as to why the court commissioner (who is not a judge, as far as I know) wouldn't let the kid enlist. Even if she said she didn't approve of the war and all that, that doesn't mean that's why she ruled the way she did. This smells like people with a political agenda trying to make a stink, there isn't enough information here for a reasonable person to pass judgement on the court one way or the other.
Could be the records are sealed due to him being a minor.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
140
116
Originally posted by: Skoorb
My biggest problem here is that somebody watched full metal jacket and wanted to join the military. What do I get for 10 dolla? Anyting, you want, including an IED trauma.
:laugh:

Just wait until you're 18 kiddo. Problem solved.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rainsford
"Interpreting the law" has nothing to do with political position, conservative judges overstep their authority and ignore their obligations just as often as their liberal counterparts. Not to mention that conservatives have had far more time to appoint "conservatives judges" than liberals have had to appoint "liberal judges", yet the liberal judge complaints continue unabated. Could it be that it's just a convenient way to attack the entire judicial branch, which is, let's face it, not a popular concept among certain conservatives.

But in any case, this story smells like there is something else going on. Transcripts from the case aren't available, we only have the word of the Marine recruiter as to why the court commissioner (who is not a judge, as far as I know) wouldn't let the kid enlist. Even if she said she didn't approve of the war and all that, that doesn't mean that's why she ruled the way she did. This smells like people with a political agenda trying to make a stink, there isn't enough information here for a reasonable person to pass judgement on the court one way or the other.
Could be the records are sealed due to him being a minor.
Could be...but the reason the records are sealed doesn't really matter, my point was that without knowing the reason behind the decision, all we can do is speculate based on our political biases, which doesn't seem like a good way to arrive at the truth.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,121
3,159
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Skoorb
My biggest problem here is that somebody watched full metal jacket and wanted to join the military. What do I get for 10 dolla? Anyting, you want, including an IED trauma.
:laugh:

Just wait until you're 18 kiddo. Problem solved.
Ya no kidding(no pun intended). There's no reason why the kid should be granted this request.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,541
16
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,121
3,159
126
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
No, but he can wait 3 months instead of wasting everyone's time/money for his impatience.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,630
181
106
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
He will no longer be a ward of the Court and libel for his own decisions. Cry baby recruiter missed out on his (got another sucker, "he, he ,hee!") sign the dummy up bonus.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
I don't think he'll be wiser at 18 either, I doubt most 18 year olds are all that great at making life changing decisions (I sure as hell wasn't). But you have to draw a line somewhere, and 18 is as good a place as any.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
I don't think he'll be wiser at 18 either, I doubt most 18 year olds are all that great at making life changing decisions (I sure as hell wasn't). But you have to draw a line somewhere, and 18 is as good a place as any.
Maybe the mark he should aim for is to have a reason other than FMJ. I wouldn't want him covering my back with thinking like that.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
I don't think he'll be wiser at 18 either, I doubt most 18 year olds are all that great at making life changing decisions (I sure as hell wasn't). But you have to draw a line somewhere, and 18 is as good a place as any.
Maybe the mark he should aim for is to have a reason other than FMJ. I wouldn't want him covering my back with thinking like that.
That's a good point, and I will say that there are probably 17 year olds out there who are perfectly capable of making a fully informed decision about joining the military. But this particular kid doesn't sound like one of those 17 year olds, and I have to wonder if that had an impact on the decision of the court.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
Hopefully.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,979
1
0
There are plenty of reasons why someone might want to enlist, many of them arguably noble. But developing "a clear sense of a career path" after watching FMJ would make me question his fitness for duty at the very least.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
And of course there's the sonofabitch politician using the kid for a poster child to get other kids to join to go kill and get killed. I'll take my congressman, Pete Stark, who told the high school kids he spoke to that he strongly discouraged them from joining the military at this time (btw, he's a veteran).
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
He'll be 18 in only three months. Will he somehow become magically enlightened and a lot more knowledgeable and wise in only 3 months?
No, but he can wait 3 months instead of wasting everyone's time/money for his impatience.
QFT
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,760
11
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
"Interpreting the law" has nothing to do with political position, conservative judges overstep their authority and ignore their obligations just as often as their liberal counterparts.
Prove it.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,547
0
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Wasn't FMJ created to make fun of war and how much it sucks?
Yeah, but we're talking about a 17 year old kid here. Personally I'm not entirely sure all 17 year olds can make reasonable judgments about something like joining the military, it's a serious decision being made by someone who is most likely still basically a kid.
I joined the Army Reserves at 17, with parental consent, and it turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life. I even went to Basic Training in the summer between my junior and senior years, and came back a better man for it.

Just sayin'...
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,801
3,315
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Skoorb
My biggest problem here is that somebody watched full metal jacket and wanted to join the military. What do I get for 10 dolla? Anyting, you want, including an IED trauma.
:laugh:

Just wait until you're 18 kiddo. Problem solved.
Ya no kidding(no pun intended). There's no reason why the kid should be granted this request.
Unless the law says otherwise.
 

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