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LGA775 3.4e V AMD64 3500+

S

Somat11

Junior Member
Hi, I am looking at buying a rig for mining work. This rig will have to hold a database (6GB) and crunch out mathematical calculations for 2 days straight. While this database is crunching out number, I will be working on a program similar to AutoCAD. What rig would be better to perform this work?

Rig 1)
P4 3.4E LGA775 1MB Prescott CPU
MSI 915P Neo PL motherboard (or equivalent)
2 x 1GB DDR2 533 Ram

Rig 2)
AMD64 3500+ Soc 939 CPU
MSI K8N Neo 2 Plat motherboard (or equivalent)
2 x 1GB DDR 400 PC3200 Ram

Most of the reviews and benchmarks that I have read are for gaming machines.

I chose MSI motherboards that were priced about the same, however everyone has their preference with regards to motherboards. The cost of the processor is also very similar. I will get the same HD and video card for each rig which I don?t think will have an influence on the work it will be doing.

Any information will be greatly appreciated.
 
in this case, the amd system will be the better peformer. amd systems are known to be great at calculations and such.
 
Also another quick question, if I buy the AMD 64 3500+, is there any significant difference between the 90nm Winchester core and the 130nm Newcastle core. In a years time, I will probably end up throwing another chip and an extra 2 Gig of ram into it.
 
The 90nm is a better overclocker, and uses a bit less power but is not really worth a price premium, unless you wish the OC. (Which it doesnt look like you do.)
 
If you have to run stuff similar to AutoCAD while the database is crunching number, the P4 Hyperthreading maybe able to help you out there. With the stuff you are doing, lots of database calculations, you may want to consider dual cpu system with SCSI HDD system, if your database application is doing lots of I/O related stuff.


 
There are a number of factors to consider.

First of all, - yes, AMD often does considerably better at numbercrunching. Our A64 3400+ perform about 41% better than 3.2GHz P4C on our main work app. And this is after the app has seen a recent P4 optimization, which indeed did result in noticably better performance on the P4s. I shudder to think what it was before.

But I said "often", because it's not a given fact. It depends a bit on how *easy* the code is for the P4. Video encoding, for instance, is also math computation and the P4 does very well. Another example would be 3DS rendering. But generally, science/engineering math seem to suit the P4 poorly.

But is this really important? The crunching will be in the background, while you are going to work with another also pretty heavy app. 2 X 1GB is definitely a good idea!
When I do something similar on a A64, I prefer to lower the background process' base pri in the taskmanager. Only experience will tell if your app is completely comfy with that.

If you don't do that, my estimate is that the P4 will chug along more smoothly, due to it's hyperthreading feature. Hyperthreading will also squeeze out a little bit more work of the P4, so it's not certain the A64 will finish crunching first either, in this case.

Just to complicate matters even more: I've had a good deal of earlier throttling problems with P4s, when they get to run at full all day long, making them even slower. A 3.4E is definitely in the risk zone. Do get an oversize cooling solution! Get a copper monster, as used by overclockers! Otherwise, as long as you have good cooling, this should not be a worry. But if you intend to move your "rig" around, a too heavy heatsink is not such a brilliant idea. A workable compromise could perhaps be the new Zalman 7700 AlCu? I don't know that, just an idea. But the "AlCu" Zalmans are almost as effective as the "Cu", and almost as light as the "Al". With any oversize cooler like that, you have to be observant whether the mainboard will mount it in a position that will be clear of PSU and videocard. (MSI is probably OK, IIRC).

In short: The A64 will crunch along faster during night and off hours. The background task will maybe/probably crunch better on the P4, during heavy foreground activity. And it's easier to get the front app running smoothly on the P4.

(My own introduction of A64 has increased productivity 7 (seven) times! But that also includes elimination of throttling, increased ram and a software improvement, so it's difficult to make an A64 vs P4 estimate. My final words is that the P4 probably depends on how important the multitasking performance will be. Ideally you should try both setups, to decide. )

Edit:
Two more issues.
64-bit. 6GB database seem like a perfect candidate for a 64-bit app? On the other hand, it's quite likely such an app won't be available until it's time to replace the PC anyway. Still, you might consider trying to get the 650 instead of the 550, (if you go P4) just incase.

Increasing ram. DDR2 will probably respond better to an increase in ram than DDR. You may have to back off on timings and clock, when going beyond two DDR sticks. Still, my feelings are that it won't affect s939 performance much.
 
AMD slowest A64 will put the smack down on all Intel chip with mathatica, compliing etc. Look at the 3400, 20% faster than 3.6 intel offering costing hundreds more!

http://www.behardware.com/articles/525/page5.html

Do yourself a favor and get the 3400 skt 754 newcastle clocked at 2.4. Not only is it $100 cheaper than 3500 it's faster in every single test and sits on top of much better motherboards. Like the DFI 250-GB with server grade componets on board which is built to last. Couple with Cucial micron 8T PC3200 3x512MB memory and I think you'll have never a issue or blue screen. I do not reccomend 1GB modules if you can aviod it. 1T is near impossible to achive which signifigantly hampers performance in addition to 1gb modules require very loose timing. Then cost. 1gb module cost too much.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
AMD slowest A64 will put the smack down on all Intel chip with mathatica, compliing etc. Look at the 3400, 20% faster than 3.6 intel offering costing hundreds more!

http://www.behardware.com/articles/525/page5.html

Do yourself a favor and get the 3400 skt 754 newcastle clocked at 2.4. Not only is it $100 cheaper than 3500 it's faster in every single test and sits on top of much better motherboards. Like the DFI 250-GB with server grade componets on board which is built to last. Couple with Cucial micron 8T PC3200 3x512MB memory and I think you'll have never a issue or blue screen. I do not reccomend 1GB modules if you can aviod it. 1T is near impossible to achive which signifigantly hampers performance in addition to 1gb modules require very loose timing. Then cost. 1gb module cost too much.
Click to expand...

"The other point is that the Athlon 64 3400+?s P-Rating isn?t really important. Changing from 3400+ to 4000+ only improved performances by 4.9%. This result is clearly smaller than the 7.4% gain obtained in going form a 3200+ to a 3400+. "

Socket 754 A64 3400+ is clearly the crown jewel of bang/buck (for non-OC). Only thing that have changed in almost 6 months is it's cheaper than ever.

Only things that muddies an otherwise very clear picture, is large ram requirements and hyperthreading.
 
I've made posts about this before Vee. Not only is 3400 the best non-OCed bang for the buck The 3400 should have been called the 3600. you simply can not bump AMD's Mhz 400 points (from 3000) and only raise PR by the same because of higher IPC of A64 used to derive PR. Also 3200 should have been 3300.

IME A64 PR goes like this: Clock x 1.5 = PR. Add 5% for DC, Add 5% for 1MB level 2.

A64 3400NC = 2400 x 1.5 = 3600, AMD is way off here calling it 3400

A64 3500NC = 2200 x 1.5 x 1.05 = 3465, pretty close But Id would have called it 3450.

A64 4000 = 2400 x 1.5x1.05x1.05 = 3969, again pretty close But Id would have called it 3950.


 
id say a P4 with hyper threading would suit your needs better....i cant do anything smoothely (apart from seti) on my 3200 when theres crunching goin on in the background, i do alot of divxing and adding files to .rar files, also alot of .pdf conversion for my palm. i basically have to wait and do the crunching first before i start anything else.
 
Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
id say a P4 with hyper threading would suit your needs better....i cant do anything smoothely (apart from seti) on my 3200 when theres crunching goin on in the background, i do alot of divxing and adding files to .rar files, also alot of .pdf conversion for my palm. i basically have to wait and do the crunching first before i start anything else.
Click to expand...

If you have priority to active window's process set, you should consider whether your problems maybe are due to too little ram. But you're right, apps that don't have the sense to give crunching threads really low pri (like Seti does) can disturb foreground work, if you don't manually lower their base pri.

The compressing/encoding scene makes you wonder if all programmers are multithread idiots :roll:
 
I personally run A64, but it doesn't do well when things are working in the background. I mean, if I'm just running a couple non-intensive programs, or 1 intensive program, it flies. It's incredible.

But i've also had a P4 and usually I can run a few programs doing a lot of intensive tasks without slowing down.

Go P4. With the numbers crunching in the background and you working on AutoCAD stuff while it's doing that, it's your best bet.
 
you guys also have to remember that you probably won't have 2 gigs of ram in the system. This person will. Saying that it's entirely the cpu's fault that it's slow is kinda unfair.

my 3500+ flies. i don't have much to compare it to, only a 2.6 p4, and some friends' newer p4's. But i haven't noticed any difference in multi-tasking. I don't think 2 apps will slow down the a64 that much.
 
I have moved from a dual Athlon MP 2000+ system to an Athlon 64 Newcastle overclocked to 2.4Ghz (~3400+), to a P4 Prescott LGA775 overclocked to 3.8Ghz system over the past year. For what I do everyday, I actually hoped I still have my dual Athlon MP2000+ system with SCSI.

I run Vmware with a linux client, with a webserver and a database server running in the background at all time. I used DVD decrypter and Divx to backup movies, all while running day-to-day application on my PC. For the things I do, especially when it is disk intensive, I find SCSI system helps out alot. A lot of time, it is not if the CPU can handle multi-tasking stuff or not, it is my disk subsystem not able to handle multiple I/O request at the same time. When I am doing CPU intensive stuff, I think P4 handles multiple CPU intensive task reasonablly well, but still the dual Athlon system is better.

The only time I find the faster CPU helpful is when I play game, or want to finish one task, like encoding a Divx movie, fast. But when I just want to throw bunch of stuff in the background, not caring when they are going to finsih, and want the PC to run smoothly for browsing the web or opening a word documentation, my dual Athlon MP works the best. You see, processors even as ancient as Athlon XP/MP, can handle day-to-day application pretty well.

So it is really up to you how you want to invest in your PC. From my personal experience, I find Athlon 64 handles game and single task really well, but not as well when you throw bunch of stuff at it. To make things worse, the motherborad and other things designed around Athlon 64 solution is geared towards gamers and doesn't address server functions. You will have to look hard to find stuff like 64 bit PCI slot that most high end SCSI card use today, and those addon cards may not be well tested on the Athlon 64 platform. There maybe PCI-express card coming out, but they are still pretty expensive. To be fair, the newer Intel P4 platform is pretty much the same, and you probably have to look at Xeon if you want to look for server type support around it.

Just my humble opinion, don't just look at CPU/mobo/memory, consider your HDD subsystem as well, and what kind of addon cards you will use for your applications and how compatible they will be with your platform, especially when you are dealing with database/server applications. And please, I am not saying things are more compatible with Intel or AMD. It is the same everywhere, user is really doing the testing for hardware/software company, you just have to choose the combination that most people use, and you will deal with less compatibility issue.
 
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